Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TrueManiek Aug 08, 2014 0:03:50	Reading the free rules of D&D 5th I came to realization, that player only have choices at start (creating character)… and then its hands down railroading in only one direction…with no choices. You don’t get to choose new skills, new powers etc. Spellcasters have a little better here, at least they get to choose spells. Besides feats are “optional rule”, and even then you only get one every couple of levels. In 4th edition – you got more feats, every lvl you got to choose something (powers) In 3th edition – you still got more feats, skills were not just “take it and forget it” + multiclassing gave you everything not just some futures. Even further down the road – well ok….   Additional question: Let’s assume we playing no feat rules, and I got a fighter that was born, raised and lived in the city, and from lvl 3 onward he spend his time living in forest with his ranger mentor – how I can learn survival??   I’m just wondering, what do you guys think about it?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 08, 2014 0:13:53	First, you are wrong about not getting choices. Besides those found in each class (which ability score to increase is a choice, for example) there are also downtime rules which include rules for learning new languages or tool proficiencies, and specifically state that the DM might allow more options for training - and training in this way is not tied to level, so you can learn as many languages and tool proficiencies you can afford to be taught.   Second, I already answered your additional question by mentioning that a DM might allow someone to be trained in other ways, such as a skill proficiency. There is, however, the other answer: Don't get proficiency in survival, just raise your Wisdom, and if you didn't completely neglect your Wisdom to start with, you already have pretty good chances to succeed at survival checks on your Wisdom modifier alone.   Lastly, the basic version of the game is intentionally straight-forward and devoid of fiddly bits - that is what makes it the basic version of the game.
#3 Saelorn Aug 08, 2014 0:14:15	I believe that you can gain new proficiencies through mulit-classing. In your example case, you would probably need to multi-class into ranger. If you're just living in a forest from level 3 on, though, then that doesn't necessarily compare with the years and years spent pre-game to develop the skills granted by your background. New skills aren't that easy to get.   In general, though, you're right. This isn't a game where you make a bunch of decisions about how to build your character. The decisions are about what you do with your character.
#4 TrueManiek Aug 08, 2014 0:33:01	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#5 JRutterbush Aug 08, 2014 0:58:51	Let's be honest here: the "optional" feat rules are only listed as optional to give DM's who don't want to use feats a place in the rulebook that they can point to and say "No feats in my game. There, it says it in the book, they're optional, now stop whining." The reality is that most groups will still be using feats. Which means that your 4th level Fighter will just take the feat that grants skill proficiencies, thus gaining proficiency in Survival, among a few other skills. If your DM doesn't let you use feats, then that's your DM's issue, not the system's: your DM is obviously looking for a game with less choice points and more focus on in-game action over character-building. That doesn't mean there's a problem with the system, and it doesn't even mean there's a problem with your DM. It just means that the game being run is not the game you're looking for. Find another game with another DM, or just deal with the fact that your Fighter won't ever become a Je... ahem, Ranger.   The whole point of Next is options, not just at the character creation level, but at the game creation level. The option to have a game with fewer choices for character creation is just part of that focus.
#6 BoldItalic Aug 08, 2014 1:27:44	It's a team game. You don't need survival skills if your buddy has them. As long as you can pull your weight in the team by doing your own thing, that's enough.   Just as a fighter doesn't need spells because there is wizard in the team and the rogue doesn't need shield proficiency because he can duck behind the fighter.
#7 Grazel Aug 08, 2014 4:32:09	Also the time spent in the woods and the knowledge gained may not make you actually proficient with Survival. If it's well roleplayed there's no reason the DM can't grant you a boon that gives you advantage on survival checks to reflect what you've learned, it'd be similar to giving you a magic item (adaptation of the boon rewards from 4e).
#8 alienux Aug 08, 2014 4:54:06	There are other examples of more choices in the game as you level besides just feats and choosing between ability scores/feats.   For example, fighters choose one of 6 figthing styles at first level. If you are a fighter with a Champion martial archtype, at 10th level you choose another fighting style out of the 5 remaining styles.
#9 h347h50 Aug 08, 2014 13:53:31	TrueManiek wrote:
#10 Elendur Aug 14, 2014 13:28:26	For non-spell casters there's feats, ability score upgrades, paths, and learning new tool proficiences and languages, and multiclassing.  Most martial characters have choices within their path as they level.  Like Way of Shadow Monks don't, but Elemental monks do.   I'd say slightly less flexibility then 3e martial characters, but only slightly.  Less skill tinkering and feats, that's about it.
#11 TheZigZagist Aug 15, 2014 4:32:40	Character backgrounds are customizable as well and include skills and tools. Though they are typically chosen or created to define pre-adventuring life, as a DM I personally would not be opposed to some alterations or even an all out swap after the fact to account for a characters' change in lifestyle and idiom. There'd be some sort of cost involved of course, be it gold pieces, training time, roleplay, etc. The tools are definitely there to do the job.
#12 Sorxores Aug 15, 2014 9:15:24	TrueManiek wrote:
#13 shivafang Aug 16, 2014 9:57:37	Sorxores wrote:
#14 Jvance420 Aug 16, 2014 12:11:03	I admit, I also feel like there aren't many choices. I'm sure some is being spoiled from 4E, where you basically got a choice every level or so. Saying you get a choice at 1 for a fighter and another at 10 doesn't really "show me the light", that kinda highlights the issue for me lol. I am still going to try it, but really it seems to me that a lot of martial types (my preference) just don't have a lot of options or will essentially be the same characters with different names. I've also heard some people say "you get all those choices at first level now" and that still doesn't really make the point of no choice feel any different lol. I reserve the right to be wrong once I've played for a bit.
#15 shivafang Aug 16, 2014 13:07:41	I get what the original poster means.  It's not so much the limited number of choices in Basic - but the fact that your choice usually sets you on your path and you don't make many more choices after that (except to multiclass).  It doesn't matter that there are 5 different cleric domains - its that once you choose your cleric domains you make no other choices (other than spells, of course.)   This is not universally true, however.  Some of the subclass options have sub-choices to make.  Animal Totems for the Barbarian's Totem Warrior, maneuvers for the fighter's Battle Master, and at 4 different levels a choice has to be made for the ranger's Hunter archetype.   It depends on what class and subclass you choose - but I will echo what was said previously.  Basic was designed to make it as easy as possible for people new to the game to get playing without having to worry about too many options.
#16 Lord_Kyrion Aug 16, 2014 13:37:13	I don't understand why, by RAW, you can't learn a new skill in downtime, but you can learn a new tool proficiency. Skills seem equal to tools to me. You can get two of each from your background. Lockpicking and disarming traps, which have always been skill functions, are covered by a tool proficiency. Why not learn Survival from downtime? I see no reason not to allow it.
(Reply to #16) reddaemon	Lord_Kyrion wrote:
#18 dippyblonde Aug 16, 2014 15:19:20	The feat Skilled (page 170 of the Players Handbook lets you gain proficiency in any combination of three skills or tools of your choice though   Pity you can only choose a feat at levels where you can gain a stat bonus
(Reply to #18) silentdante	dippyblonde wrote:
#20 Lord_Kyrion Aug 16, 2014 17:21:37	reddaemon wrote:
#21 Lady_Auralla Aug 16, 2014 19:37:32	Class + level based rpg's by their nature tend to limit choice points it seems you are looking for something more points based.
(Reply to #21) Jvance420	Lady_Auralla wrote: