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| #1DevaShamanOct 16, 2014 20:07:15 | Can anyone clarify the nature of the Charm Person spell, as in how exactly does it work? From some discussion I've already had with DMs there are two competing theories. I'll spell those out as well as what's at stake and would love feedback from the Community (Game Designers making a final ruling would be pretty awesome too).
Theory 1) Charm Person magically alters their memory of whoever charmed them to leave a favorable impression. If there is no reason they should remember them then temporary favorable memories are magically created.
Theory 2) Charm Person magically creates a psychic link between two characters that pushes one to think more favorably of the other than they otherwise would.
Effect of Theory 1: When the spell ends and they see/hear/smell the person that charmed them they know who it was because they remember being charmed by them.
Effect of Theory 2: When the spell ends they know who charmed them because of some residual "psychic marker" that is upon the caster that allows the target to intuit who charmed them.
What's at stake according to Theory 1? If the target is dependent on their senses to identify the caster then a caster who changes appearance between when the person was under the charm and when the charm ended is not able to identify their charmer. Spells like Disguise Self and Alter Self or proficiency with a disguise kit effectively negate the target's ability to determine who their charmer was. Although using disguises makes for a bit more work and planning to use this spell it makes the spell much more effective with less downside.
What's at stake according to Theory 2? No disguise can keep a charmed person from knowing who charmed them. This makes the spell significantly less desirable as it functionally gives a character a very limited kind of truesight for their charmer. The only person a character would then bother to target with the spell are inconsequential NPCs that they don't expect to be seeing much throughout the campaign. Every character that gets charmed would be one more character in the world that could psychically sense their presence picking them out of a crowd. Charming enemies also denies the charmer the ability to disguise themself as the enemy to infiltrate if an enemy they've charmed before will be among those he's trying to infiltrate. Theory 2 has lots of downside potentially to the point that the liability outweighs the momentary advantages. Of course this would also depend on if the "psychic marker" had a shelf life. If the caster disappears for a few hours/days/months/etc. before the spell ends does the target still recognize them as their charmer when they see them again? Is the "psychic marker" permanent?
What are people's thoughts? |
| #2NevvurOct 16, 2014 23:32:18 | I'm closer to version 2 in my understanding of charm, but I don't agree that it creates a psychic connection or residual that lasts beyond the duration of the spell. It's like receiving a backhanded compliment. "That hair cut makes your face look slim!" = "You have a fat face."
You get the insult when the charm wears off. You might want to track the person down, but alas, his remark didn't include his telephone number and home address. If he's wearing a hat and shades next time you cross paths, you might not even recognize him. |
| #3paulstraitOct 16, 2014 23:52:45 | Think of it like a crush (or the platonic equivalent), except that when it is over, its not only over, but you realize that the individual you thought was the greatest had magically tricked you and used you for his or her own self interested reasons. I think that a disguise could potentially allow you to evade your former charm victims. I also think that charming other intelligent beings who are members of society would be seen as a grave violation, super creepy, and almost certainly criminal. |
| #42ChlorobutanalOct 17, 2014 0:00:15 | I just assume that charm spells alter perception or emotions for the duration of the spell- similar to being drunk, but with altered behavior/perception toward one person only, and without the loss of motor skills or mental faculties. It doesn't have to forge psychic connections or implant memories.
I also infer that "knowing that (he or she) was charmed by you" doesn't necessarily mean "knowing who you are." When the charm spell expires, the victim realizes that they were being manipulated and that you were the one doing it. If the victim doesn't "know" who you are beyond "that person who cast a spell on me," then that's all they have to go on. A disguise would work perfectly well for confounding the victim's attempt to figure out who charmed them. |
| #5Danny_MontannyOct 17, 2014 6:17:17 |
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| #6TimboramaOct 17, 2014 5:45:47 | Now the question being: If you use Alter Self to look like the city Duke, and then went around using Friends on everyone, would everyone hate the Duke
Or would they hate you, but not know who "you" are? I hope this never happens in one of my games but I might rule that they know they were magically deceived (as per the spell descriptions of Charm Person and Friends) but maybe conjecture that whoever it was may not have been the Duke. But if they are clever enough maybe I'll allow it depending on how it fits in the story... |
| (Reply to #6)Danny_Montanny |
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| #8OoftaMegOct 17, 2014 7:17:10 | Like others, I always treat charm person is like magic beer goggles.
Also remember that charm person just makes them friendly, they are not dominated and will not necessarily do everything that you say. |
| #9Sword_of_SpiritOct 17, 2014 11:13:44 | Charm person is easy, and has already been addressed sufficiently on this thread. The harder one is friends. Why do they automatically hate your guts when it wears off? (Other than game balance). The experience of being "friend"ed must be very different than being charmed.
Based on the wording, charm seems to alter their perceptions (suddenly you are just moved into the category of buddies in their mind), while friends seems to be a more forceful experience, where they feel emotionally drugged. Of course, I wouldn't automatically make them hostile 100% of the time in my campaign, because NPCs are characters rather than stat bags. But it's an interesting distinction they make.
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| #10NovacatOct 17, 2014 15:56:45 |
To me, charming alters the brain chemistry (or what passes for such in creatures with no brains), such that, when the subject perceives the caster, its mind triggers a "friend" response instead of "enemy," "stranger," or whatever would be normal. Kind of like how drugs can alter your emotional response to certain types of stimuli.
Once it wears off, of course, the subject can, with some reflection, realize that his perceptions had been altered. Of course, for the duration of the spell, there would need to be some effect in place that allows the spell to identify the caster, even if the subject cannot. |
| #11jonathonhawkeOct 18, 2014 10:18:58 |
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| #12ClutchboneOct 20, 2014 13:16:12 | I imagine that Friends just induces magical withdrawal symtoms, like the makers of the spell had to cut corners to make this a cantrip so there's emotional feedback when the cantrip wears off. Charm Person, being a 1st level spell, was crafted to be more smooth so the effect doesn't cause as much backlash when it ends. |