Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Geoarrge Mar 11, 2015 10:30:52	I have an archvillain who is a high-level ranger possessing an amulet of proof against detection and location who I intend to keep behind the scenes as much as possible, but the PCs could eventually attempt to track him down, and I won't mind if that happens.   According to the rules as I understand them, his class abilities make mundane tracking impossible, short of maintaining visual contact.  And the amulet protects against divination magic, but since this is a nondetection effect rather than mind blank, it does not protect from wish. Q1: If a wish is used to duplicate a standard divination spell like scrying, does it count as a divination spell, meaning more creative wording would be required to beat the amulet? Q2: Does the amulet protect the wearer's equipment from locate object? Q3: Are there any other weaknesses to consider?
#2 mellored Mar 11, 2015 10:59:48	q1: i would not allow it q2: I assume it does q3: IMO, the best way is to get the ranger to come to you.  Nothing stops him from walking into an ambush.
#3 strider13x Mar 11, 2015 13:03:26	Be a Dungeon Master! Don't hide behind rules when you have a good story to tell. As for Wish? Well that is a special case and if players cast it give them something cryptic for an answer...
#4 cowleymen Mar 11, 2015 16:13:19	Scent tracking. Rent a bloodhound.
#5 Zarton Mar 11, 2015 16:55:55	Depends on what the pcs know about your villian and the lengths to go to provoke the villian appearing before them. There are other methods of tracking depending on how he disapears; in the wild it would be almost impossible unless they are creative. This useally includes using Fey or animal support. In an urban setting, if theres a thieves guild in the city a pc has connections with, can use them to spot him. If pcs had confronted the villian and planted a tiny familiar of some kind (like a spider), could track that way if they are close enough in the chase. In most cases, an impossible to find villian by normal and divination means tends to be found at the speed of plot. If he has known allies, they can use divination on them. Including scrying. If they see a scene through a divination spell which shows the ally talking to no one. Tends to mean hes there then as he wouldnt show up in the vision.
#6 cowleymen Mar 11, 2015 18:06:21	Zarton wrote:
#7 Byakugan01 Mar 12, 2015 22:56:18	If a party was going to take the risk of using a Wish and taking your wizard out of fighting for days, and have a 1/3 chance to never be able to cast wish again, you should probably let it bypass a low level spell.    Of course they could just wish for the party to be teleported to the rangers location, which is a simple request and does not require divination effects.
#8 Geoarrge Mar 15, 2015 0:23:07	Thanks, everyone. Here are my own thoughts. My impression from the RAW is that a wish can beat nondetection but not by simply duplicating a divination spell.  It would require accepting the risks and going for a nonstandard effect. I'd personally be fine with wishing to teleport to the ranger's location. The description of the amulet only says "You are hidden..." and the nondetection spell effect distinguishes between creatures and objects as possible targets. Since locate object can only give the direction to a targeted object (like say the ranger's bow) within 1000 feet, I'm inclined to let the players take advantage of it, since in the context of an overland campaign spanning several miles, they have to get pretty close for it to work.   Of course, finding a way to bait the ranger or track his accomplices would be a sound strategy.   Another thing that occurs is that if he is spotted, chasing him down would be easier combining invisibility (so he doesn't know he's being followed), fly (better visibility and speed), and haste (even more speed).  Since they all require concentration, this would require either three separate casters or obtaining potions.  Or alternatively, find a creature that can turn invisible and fly at high speed. Planar ally summoning a planetar could work (take that, BMX Bandit).
(Reply to #8) Lucas_Blackstone	Going by RAW, Nondetection barely functions since most divination doesn't target anything. Detect Thoughts involves focusing on a creature to read its mind, I would say Nondetection would work there, but Locate Spells, and Detect Spells all radiate out from the caster, targetting doesn't occur. Much like a Fireball doesn't target a creature, but instead a point in space. The only divination spell I found that targets is Truestrike. So that is a surefire way to determine if something is under Nondetection since you wouldn't be able to cast it on something with Nondetection. I guess the target of Nondetection can't use divination magics with a range of self, since that would be actually targetting them with divination magic.