Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tashiro Sep 30, 2014 15:20:20	One of my players pointed out that the transmuter ability to polymorph is, let's say, problematic as worded.  It acts as the polymorph spell, which is fine, except that the target of the polymorph spell gains the intelligence of the animal they're turned into.  So, as-written, it looks like you can turn yourself into a stupid animal once per day.   Of course, common sense applies - you would probably keep your Intelligence, but yeah, the exception should be noted.  Anyone else catch this?
#2 Overpromises Sep 30, 2014 16:35:39	No exception is needed. If the transmuter believes that he will need a certain level of intelligence while polymorphed, then he should polymorph into a beast with an intelligence that high, or not at all.
#3 FallingIcicle Sep 30, 2014 17:18:45	Tashiro wrote:
(Reply to #2) Tashiro	Overpromises wrote:
(Reply to #4) Overpromises	Tashiro wrote:
#6 RCanine Oct 01, 2014 1:37:29	Tashiro wrote:
#7 FrogReaver Oct 01, 2014 2:38:43	Wizard feature says: At 10th level, you add the polymorph spell to your spellbook, if it is not there already. You can cast polymorph without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can target only yourself and transform into a beast whose challenge rating is 1 or lower. Once you cast polymorph in this way, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest, though you can still cast it normally using an available spell slot.   Polymorph spell says: The target’s game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality.   So basically that animal acts as you would act even though its dumb.     The bigger problem with the polymorph wizard feature is that polymorph is a concentration spell and a polymorphed creature cannot cast spells.  (It's not clear if that also entails maintaining concentration on a spell)...
#8 miles2912 Oct 01, 2014 16:21:32	This has to be a mistake.  If you look at the Moon Druid, he can transform into a CR1 creature, but is says that the druid retains his mental stats and uses the creatures physical ones.  I would use this for the wizards polymorph too.   Also at level 10 a CR1 is going to be a non-issue in combat, but more of a way for the wizard to excape - leap off a cliff and poly into a flyer.
#9 2Chlorobutanal Oct 01, 2014 17:51:57	There is a big divide in the rules between "shapechanging" as an ability and "polymorphing" as a spell effect.   The former, including Wild Shape and the shapechange spell, combines the attributes of the original creature and the new form, giving the new form the mental abilities and class abilities of the original character.   The latter, including polymorph and true polymorph, completely replaces all features of the original character except for personality and alignment.   This is an intentional decision, it seems.  A Transmuter-hawk can't cast spells, speak, understand language, or Investigate very well, but he or she can still protect friends, spy on enemies, fly away, etc.  The results of any spying would probably be very rudimentary, but the Transmuter could recall whatever he or she saw as a hawk, filtered through the low intelligence of the bird.   However, note that having the Spellcasting feature is not a prerequisite for maintaining concentration.  A hawk should be able to "concentrate" just fine, using the normal rules for such.   Until very high levels, a Druid also cannot cast spells while Wild Shaped, but he or she can still concentrate on them (such as call lightning or enhance ability).  A polymorphed character could do the same.
#10 Alficles Oct 02, 2014 8:19:35	Others disagree with me on this, but as near as I can tell, this feature is non-functional. The ability polys you into a creature with no wizard levels and no intelligence. So even if the creature knew how to concentrate (no spellcasting feature, so it doesn't), it wouldn't know why concentrating was more important than either eating, procreating, or running away (the primary tasks animals do). At absolute best, his “personality” might suggest that “concentrating” was a virtue, but I don't see how a creature, even one that felt that concentration was important, would elect not to drop it the first time anything slightly stressful happened.   No matter how I twist this power, I can't seem to make it operate.
#11 mellored Oct 02, 2014 9:27:34	You don't need to be a spellcaster to concentrate. You don't need Int either.
#12 Timborama Oct 02, 2014 10:17:05	The only stipulations for concentration are that you have to be conscious, if you cast another concentration spell any current concentration spell ends, and if you take too much damage you risk breaking your concentration.   The mechanics are there. If someone can point to where it says "a squirrel can't concentrate" or even "someone without the ability to cast spells or spell-like abilities cannot concentrate" that would be greeeeeeat. In fact, some abilities for non-spellcasters (PC and Monster alike) use the wording along the lines of "x uses your concentration, as if on a spell."   So again, why can't an animal concentrate on a spell?   (also, put me in the camp of "lower intelligence doesn't render you useless." If a Wizard was polymorphed as a hawk in a library and everyone asks him what book they should read, he'd make an Intelligence check AS THAT HAWK to recall where the book was. What was normally an easy-medium DC (5-10) is somewhat more difficult, due to his INT modifier going from +4 to -3...The gnome wizard that's a badger is still a gnome. It may even have an affinity for shiny objects like in his humanoid form. But he cannot use logic or reason very effectively)
#13 Yunru Oct 02, 2014 10:21:04	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #12) Alficles	Timborama wrote:
#15 Saelorn Oct 02, 2014 14:37:07	Alficles wrote:
#16 Timborama Oct 03, 2014 5:49:19	Yeah, to echo Saelorn, it's not a Squirrel. It's a Wizard who transformed into a Squirrel. So he keeps wizardy motivations. He may be more absent-minded, and probably couldn't do calculus, but he'd make damn sure that his instinct to survive carries over. Which means that instinct is to concentrate on the spell so he doesn't die...You can have squirrel tendencies to do some cute RP stuff, though.   Remember, the spells specifically say you RETAIN YOUR ALINGMENT AND PERSONALITY! So, again, you aren't a Squirrel. You are a WIZARD (albiet a dumb one) in a Squirrel's body.   (you do make a point about not even understanding language, since they have a "-" by language in the MM. I'd have to look into this further! Because in the real world, though, animals can be trained to understand words, commands, and tone of voice and such. So maybe communication needs to be done via Handle Animal)
(Reply to #16) Alficles	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #17) Timborama	Alficles wrote:
#19 Saelorn Oct 03, 2014 10:55:35	Alficles wrote:
#20 DracoSuave Oct 04, 2014 4:39:13	Sounds like a lot of people in this thread are ignoring the fact that for some of these wizards, their Wisdom scores might actually be going up and they may be becoming more self-aware than before as a result of their transformation.  That squirrel might not be learned any more, but he's still going to have a better perception of things and insight than most humans do.  He will know that he isn't a squirrel, even if he forgets how he became a squirrel. The same is true for most victims of polymorph, in fact.