Tridents

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Timborama

Sep 09, 2014 16:26:39

Apologies if this has been covered, but a search yielded no results.

 

Anyway, is a Trident just an expensive, Martial Spear? Did the Trident do something in playtesting that they took out suddenly? Because right now the Trident has the EXACT same stats as a Spear, but is 5g vs. 1g, and is Martial instead of Simple

 

Have fellow DMs done anything to compensate? Would pumping it to a flat d8 (no versatile) be too good? Not good enough?

#2

BW0222

Sep 09, 2014 16:50:34

Nope. A trident and spear are virtually identical and have the same stats for combat -- except the trident is 1lb heavier and cost 4gp more.

 

I do like the simplified weapons in 5E -- fewer complex exceptions or rules and no long complex lists of weapons which are virtually the same. Adding six different names for a halberd and giving them minor differences is pretty moot. Yes, that means that a lot of weapons are statistically identical -- battleaxe and longsword is virtually the same except weight and cost; the halberd and glaive are essentially the same weapon. One could make special rules for the trident as per 3.x -- giving extra damage if pulled out, penalties until pulled out, etc. -- but, IMHO, it isn't worth the extra time and rules at the table.

 

I don't think there is a reason to compensate. I doubt PCs are throwing so many spears and tridents (and unable to recover them) that cost or weight is a real issue. The differences exist for flavor. If you have martial weapons... by all means carry a trident because it looks cool and likely lets those around you know you are a bit more serious in using it. If you have a sea god, are a pirate-type, grew up in the gladiator pits, etc. its is cool. If all you care about is optimization... pick spear and save yourself 4gp and 1lb in weight.

#3

lawrencehoy

Sep 09, 2014 18:48:02

The only thing I might suggest, as a way to differentiate the two, would be to give the spear a better range than the trident; either by increasing spear ranges or decreasing trident ranges. It seems logical that you could throw a spear further than a trident.

#4

Timborama

Sep 09, 2014 19:15:23

BW0222 wrote:
#5

Thank_Dog

Sep 10, 2014 2:14:21

The trident is cooler.

#6

Joe_the_Rat

Sep 10, 2014 6:08:00

I think most of the issues were in the old forums, but yeah, this was a noted "area of concern."  Trident is the only martial weapon that is no better (and arguably worse) than its simple weapon analogue, the spear.  I was hoping they'd make trident the d8 versatile (d10) piercing weapon. As-is, they could have combined the two as a single listing and saved a line of space.

 

I can think of some ways in which forks and tridents could be used differently, but much of it is descriptive and situational. Being better suited to catching limbs/tripping/pushing/preventing run-through charges (add boar spear to this function) etc. Barring additional specific support (Feats, maneuvers, specific call-outs of function), this is about using the actual shape of the object rather than the specific rule implementation.

 

I'm still going to use one when I can. Probably with a triangle configuration or as a bident/fork when I can get away with it. Because they are cool.

#7

1eejit

Sep 10, 2014 6:51:01

Someone with the Gladiator background (entertainer variant) could presumably get proficiency in a Trident even if they wouldn't otherwise be proficient with martial weapons.

 

... that's all I've got.

#8

Sword_of_Spirit

Sep 10, 2014 15:26:25

I usually imagine a trident being made of metal, which means it will be harder to break (once we have rules for that in the DMG). Definitely not a very satisfying difference, but it's something.


I'd probably allow advantage on disarm attempts with a trident.

 

#9

BatFett

Sep 10, 2014 15:58:28

I can't quote pages... but I could swear that I read somewhere that tridents don't have disadvantage when fighting underwater.

 

... but maybe I just dreamed it.

#10

Ulfengard

Sep 10, 2014 16:04:09

Pg. 198 Underwater Combat, Daggers, Javelins, Short Swords, Spears and Tridents are the only weapons that don't get disadvantage, thus they are still the same weapon. I may make it 1d8 versatile 1d10 in my game, not sure yet but for 4 extra gold it should be better than it is.

 

#11

mrpopstar

Sep 11, 2014 5:53:24

I like versatile 1d8/1d10.

 

#12

Zyph

Sep 11, 2014 8:40:45

The problem with "D8 / D10 versatile" is that it basically then becomes an improved longsword or battle axe that happens to do piercing instead of slashing, because you can throw the Trident as well. I'd actually consider going this route, even though it'd be a little off from what the standard things in the rules:

 

Trident  -  Piercing damage   -  1d6  -  Versatile (1d10), Thrown (20/60)

 

So let's see hos this stacks up with other weapons:

 

1. Compared to a Spear it's balanced, as it does more damage when in two hands (d10 instead of d8) but is a martial weapon instead of simple

 

2. Compared to a Longsword or Battle Axe it's balanced, as it can be thrown but it does less damage in one hand.

 

Another alternative, if you don't want to go with a two dice category jump for versatile, would be to make the Spear's Vesatile be "2d4" instead of "1d8", giving it an advantage over a spear but not making it a clearly better mechanical option than a longsword or battle axe in terms of "one handed versatile martial weapons"

#13

Guest703856308

Sep 11, 2014 10:51:12

There are so many options to differentiate them, and the less rules to track the better, but just one idea, give an extra d6 when someone crits with a trident to represent striking with more of the prongs.  Then you might see some Champions interested in wielding it

#14

Griffon23

Sep 12, 2014 21:22:14

I had another thread I started about this weapon effect to cost/lbs issue particularly for the Greatsword and Maul. Spear/Trident, Battleaxe/Longsword, and most odiously the Scimitar/Short Sword. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

#15

Captain_Kobold

Sep 13, 2014 3:38:35

Personally, I wouldn't have put it in the weapons table, and just used Spear stats to represent a Trident if necessary.