True Polymorph into Object Limits - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mellored Jan 05, 2015 9:30:38	When turning a creature into an object, what kind of limit is there? Size limit? Can i turn a mouse into a 50' solid iron box or a whale into a mote of dust? Value limit? Can i turn something into gold, diamond, or full plate armor? Magic item? Can i turn a cockroach into a +1 Sword? Excalabur? A +500 crossbow?
#2 Stormborn20 Jan 05, 2015 10:08:02	Haha, they really dropped the ball on "Creature into Object" limits. That said, the first line of the spell does indicate that an object targeted must be nonmagical, so no turning magic items into gnats. My guess is that they intended that creatures can only be polymorphed into nonmagical objects, just as only the nonmagical objects may be targets. But yeah, they got sloppy.
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Jan 05, 2015 10:10:36	The answer to all your questions is "ask your DM." Pretending for the rest of this post that I am your DM: Size Limit? Not a strict one - depends on the situation, but I doubt you'd have any real motivation to attempt either of the specific examples you mention in the course of a campaign. Value Limit? Nope - you could easily spend the same spell slot to make an item worth 25,000 gp from nothing or a number of other effects, it doesn't at all bother me if you are creating or improving your wealth with a spell. Especially because you are at a character level where "have more money" is not likely to actually solve any of the challenges you are facing or attain any of the goals you've set for yourself. Magic Item? This is a no-go - wish can't even make a magic item, and it's meant to be the most potent spell in the game. Drop of water? No reason to say no that I can think of, since it isn't much different than, for example, a marble. Barrel of oil? That's more than one object, so no - barrel yes, oil yes, both at once no. Wagon of caltrops? Nope. See barrel of oil answer for explaination. A pie? Yes, no different functionally from a marble again. How to determine its hit point? Why would I bother determining a pie's hit points? A catapult? Might be more functional than a marble, but its still just the one object so I'd allow it. The sun? Yes, but with an important caveat: All attempts to utilize physics as they exist in the real world fail spectacularly at my table - turning something into the sun, or any star really, doesn't result in the amazingly destructive event that one might expect... just in an exceptionally large but not overly dangerous or mobile flaming sphere like effect. Anti-matter? No such thing, for reasons as mentioned above - even when I have strange vessels crash into the mountains and leave odd devices for PCs to find in them, an "anti-matter rifle" gets renamed or re-described so that nobody at the table can bring real world physics into the equation. A coil of mono-filament? This would be where I mention that I would be opposed to a character turning something into something they personally consider theoretical or imaginary... but I'd say no on the grounds of real world phsyics again. Castle into an ant? I don't consider an entire castle to be a singular object in most cases, but you could certainly turn one building or one wall built between buildings into an ant. Gold into a cat? If you have a big enough gold object on hand to match the size of a cat, absolutely. Magic item into a gnat? The spell text specifically states "Choose one creature or nonmagical object..." so no. Wagon of caltrops into a bat? Just the wagon, yes. Just one caltrop, yes. Multiple objects targeted at once, no.
#4 mellored Jan 05, 2015 10:58:58	Size Limit? Not a strict one - depends on the situation, but I doubt you'd have any real motivation to attempt either of the specific examples you mention in the course of a campaign.
(Reply to #4) AaronOfBarbaria	mellored wrote:
#6 mellored Jan 05, 2015 11:42:21	[quote="AaronOfBarbaria"]In most cases, however, I'd likely use other portions of the spell as if they informed intent and limit size to roughly as big as the target was if size were the most important quality of the new form - so that you could turn any creature to gold, but you'd get more gold out of a troll than a goblin, for example.[/quote]That's probably the most reasonable. Can't turn a cat into something bigger then a cat, or something you havn't seen. Still, not against RAW, so i'll have some fun imagining.
#7 Yunru Jan 05, 2015 11:47:27	Can I turn creatures into 1 hp balls that lose hp if I throw them? Can I name them Pokéballs?
#8 mellored Jan 05, 2015 11:58:20	Yunru wrote:
#9 BRJN Jan 06, 2015 17:54:18	Polymorph my gold bullion stockpile into a hamster or something that I can keep in a cage without raising eyebrows, but nobody will want to steal from me. I can afford to buy pet food because when its droppings are taken out of the zone of effect, they will un-polymorph ... into small nuggets of gold. I think.
#10 Yunru Jan 06, 2015 18:03:01	Nah the true exploit is genetics. Transform gold into bacteria, bacteria multiply, transform back into gold, profit.
#11 cowleymen Jan 06, 2015 22:07:55	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #11) Undrhil	cowleymen wrote:
#13 Rydis Jan 09, 2015 7:15:15	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#14 AaronOfBarbaria Jan 09, 2015 8:00:04	A barrel is still a barrel even if it is empty. Oil is still oil whether it is in a barrel or out of one. A pie crust isn't a pie without filling. Pie filling isn't a pie without crust. I feel the need to say this: I'm not going another round argueing what isn't or isn't one object - I make the call at my table, and everyone else can make the call for their respective tables. I promise not to barge in and harrang anyone.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

mellored

Jan 05, 2015 9:30:38

When turning a creature into an object, what kind of limit is there?

Size limit? Can i turn a mouse into a 50' solid iron box or a whale into a mote of dust?

Value limit? Can i turn something into gold, diamond, or full plate armor?

Magic item? Can i turn a cockroach into a +1 Sword? Excalabur? A +500 crossbow?

Stormborn20

Jan 05, 2015 10:08:02

Haha, they really dropped the ball on "Creature into Object" limits.

That said, the first line of the spell does indicate that an object targeted must be nonmagical, so no turning magic items into gnats.

My guess is that they intended that creatures can only be polymorphed into nonmagical objects, just as only the nonmagical objects may be targets. But yeah, they got sloppy.

AaronOfBarbaria

Jan 05, 2015 10:10:36

The answer to all your questions is "ask your DM." Pretending for the rest of this post that I am your DM:

Size Limit? Not a strict one - depends on the situation, but I doubt you'd have any real motivation to attempt either of the specific examples you mention in the course of a campaign.
Value Limit? Nope - you could easily spend the same spell slot to make an item worth 25,000 gp from nothing or a number of other effects, it doesn't at all bother me if you are creating or improving your wealth with a spell. Especially because you are at a character level where "have more money" is not likely to actually solve any of the challenges you are facing or attain any of the goals you've set for yourself.
Magic Item? This is a no-go - wish can't even make a magic item, and it's meant to be the most potent spell in the game.
Drop of water? No reason to say no that I can think of, since it isn't much different than, for example, a marble.
Barrel of oil? That's more than one object, so no - barrel yes, oil yes, both at once no.
Wagon of caltrops? Nope. See barrel of oil answer for explaination.
A pie? Yes, no different functionally from a marble again.
How to determine its hit point? Why would I bother determining a pie's hit points?
A catapult? Might be more functional than a marble, but its still just the one object so I'd allow it.
The sun? Yes, but with an important caveat: All attempts to utilize physics as they exist in the real world fail spectacularly at my table - turning something into the sun, or any star really, doesn't result in the amazingly destructive event that one might expect... just in an exceptionally large but not overly dangerous or mobile flaming sphere like effect.
Anti-matter? No such thing, for reasons as mentioned above - even when I have strange vessels crash into the mountains and leave odd devices for PCs to find in them, an "anti-matter rifle" gets renamed or re-described so that nobody at the table can bring real world physics into the equation.
A coil of mono-filament? This would be where I mention that I would be opposed to a character turning something into something they personally consider theoretical or imaginary... but I'd say no on the grounds of real world phsyics again.
Castle into an ant? I don't consider an entire castle to be a singular object in most cases, but you could certainly turn one building or one wall built between buildings into an ant.
Gold into a cat? If you have a big enough gold object on hand to match the size of a cat, absolutely.
Magic item into a gnat? The spell text specifically states "Choose one creature or nonmagical object..." so no.
Wagon of caltrops into a bat? Just the wagon, yes. Just one caltrop, yes. Multiple objects targeted at once, no.

mellored

Jan 05, 2015 10:58:58

Size Limit? Not a strict one - depends on the situation, but I doubt you'd have any real motivation to attempt either of the specific examples you mention in the course of a campaign.

(Reply to #4)

AaronOfBarbaria

mellored wrote:

mellored

Jan 05, 2015 11:42:21

[quote="AaronOfBarbaria"]In most cases, however, I'd likely use other portions of the spell as if they informed intent and limit size to roughly as big as the target was if size were the most important quality of the new form - so that you could turn any creature to gold, but you'd get more gold out of a troll than a goblin, for example.[/quote]That's probably the most reasonable.

Can't turn a cat into something bigger then a cat, or something you havn't seen.

Still, not against RAW, so i'll have some fun imagining.

Yunru

Jan 05, 2015 11:47:27

Can I turn creatures into 1 hp balls that lose hp if I throw them? Can I name them Pokéballs?

mellored

Jan 05, 2015 11:58:20

Yunru wrote:

BRJN

Jan 06, 2015 17:54:18

Polymorph my gold bullion stockpile into a hamster or something that I can keep in a cage without raising eyebrows, but nobody will want to steal from me. I can afford to buy pet food because when its droppings are taken out of the zone of effect, they will un-polymorph ... into small nuggets of gold. I think.

#10

Yunru

Jan 06, 2015 18:03:01

Nah the true exploit is genetics. Transform gold into bacteria, bacteria multiply, transform back into gold, profit.

#11

cowleymen

Jan 06, 2015 22:07:55

Yunru wrote:

(Reply to #11)

Undrhil

cowleymen wrote:

#13

Rydis

Jan 09, 2015 7:15:15

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#14

AaronOfBarbaria

Jan 09, 2015 8:00:04

A barrel is still a barrel even if it is empty.

Oil is still oil whether it is in a barrel or out of one.

A pie crust isn't a pie without filling.

Pie filling isn't a pie without crust.

I feel the need to say this: I'm not going another round argueing what isn't or isn't one object - I make the call at my table, and everyone else can make the call for their respective tables. I promise not to barge in and harrang anyone.