True Polymorph

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Batla76

Dec 30, 2014 9:25:13

If a Level 20 Wizard uses True Polymorph to turn into an Ancient Brass Dragon (CR 20), Can he still cast spells in Dragonform?

 

The PHB states that he retains his alignment and personality (to me I take personality to mean his own mind and mental faculties, which would include his spells). The rules state specifically that in the new form, it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other actions that require hands or speech "Unless it's new form is capable of such actions." Now, Going back as far as I can remember(the 1977 MM), Dragons have always been powerful spell casters, guardians of ancient arcane knowledge, and even a source for rare spells and components. This edition seems to has taken that away from Dragons, quite a shame actually imho but I digress. Back to the original question; I see no reason why spellcasting from a Dragon could not fall under the "capable of such actions" statement. Could I please get your thoughts on this? 

#2

EzechielDantan

Dec 30, 2014 10:19:49

Personality =/= spells, spells are not your personality. 

Personality is about characteristic patterns of behaving, feeling and thinking, it is what sets individuals apart. It has however very little to do with the persons capabilities.

 

It's vague, but as I understand it feats, spells and the like are part of your statistics. So I would say no, you won't keep your spells, you can however use shapechange which specifically says you get to keep your mental ability scores and class features. I would say dagons can cast spells, according to the variant rule in the monster manual at least, handling material components might be dfficult though.

 

 

#3

CulveDaddy

Dec 30, 2014 11:36:43

If it wasn't an 9th-level spell, I'd say it's OP. If WOTC ever release an ELH, it'll be used creatively in 5e.

#4

Ganymede425

Dec 30, 2014 13:31:37

It doesn't seem to be a problem with me.

 

If you polymorphed into a parrot, I'd likely allow you to do spells with just verbal components.

 

If you polymorphed into a chimpanzee, I'd likely allow you to do spells with just somatic components (if any exist).

 

A dragon seems capable of both speech and digital gesticulation, so I think a dragon would be able to handle both verbal and somatic components.

#5

Batla76

Dec 30, 2014 14:24:34

Agreed Culve. It seems that it could be used as an OP exploit. A CR 20 Ancient Brass Dragon WITH lvl 20 Spellcaster abilities and a bank of 300 HP!

 

#6

Ath-kethin

Dec 31, 2014 5:56:05 		Dragons in 5e can cast spells anyway, at the DM discretion; there's a sidebar in the MM about it. So I would say that counts as the new form being "capable of such actions."
#7

mellored

Dec 31, 2014 6:40:14

If you polymorph into a brass dragon, you can only do what a brass dragon can do, only talk how a brass dragon can talk, and only cast what a brass dragon can cast.

(assuming you use the side bar).

 

You are not a hybrid wizard/dragon.  Just a dragon.

#8

Ganymede425

Dec 31, 2014 14:07:18

mellored wrote:
(Reply to #5)

CulveDaddy

Batla76 wrote:
#10

CulveDaddy

Dec 31, 2014 21:31:42

Batla76 wrote:
(Reply to #5)

Nolwelen

Batla76 wrote:
(Reply to #11)

CulveDaddy

Nolwelen wrote:
#13

Yunru

Jan 18, 2015 4:34:51 		I'd probably cast Simulcrum and then turn that me into a dragon/whatever.
(Reply to #13)

CulveDaddy

Yunru wrote:
#15

Kalani

Jan 18, 2015 9:30:30

Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #15)

CulveDaddy

Kalani wrote:
#17

Kalani

Jan 18, 2015 10:10:13

CulveDaddy wrote:
#18

mellored

Jan 18, 2015 10:57:28 		True polymorphing an object into a creature says that it's friendly based on how you treat it.
(Reply to #17)

CulveDaddy

Kalani wrote: