Wielding a shield is +2 AC
A Shield can be an improvised weapon (1d4 damage and you need Tavern Brawler to be proficient)
In order to use the shield when fighting with two weapons, you need the Dual Wield feat (since it's not Light)
Another part of the Dual Wield feat is +1 AC
Does that mean that if I have Dual Wield and Tavern Brawler (so I'm proficient with the improvised shield) that I would get a total of +3 to my AC?
I can't find the line in the book where you can't use a shield as an improvised weapon and also as an actual shield unless I go back to my 3.5 books. Did that rule make it into 5e?
The reason I'm asking is because I'm currently playing an Oath of the Ancients Paladin and I'm rocking a 21 AC base (18 Plate + 1 Defense + 2 shield). I took Tavern Brawler at Level 1 because I was looking for the extra +1 Str and it kind of became a defining aspect of my character, but since it's adventure league and the DM didn't mind, I switched it for Shield Master... but I'm still a Frat Boy Party-Pally and I'm going to pick up Tavern Brawler at later levels. Anyway... that got me thinking about ways for Tavern Brawler and Shield Master to work together, which got me thinking about a shield as an improvised weapon, but I would need Dual Wield because it's not Light, so that will give me another source of AC.... Can I have the point from Dual Wield + the actual Shield bonus?
I would not let you use a shield as an improvised weapon and still benefit from its AC bonus.
I can not quote anything in the rules off the top of my head. If I encountered this situation as DM, I would rule that whenever you use your shield as a weapon, you do not receive the shield's AC bonus until the start of your next turn.
SterlingRat wrote:
Kentus wrote:
jaelis wrote:
Sure. But it's a fair question to ask if the combo seems overpowered. To me it seems a little strong but not too bad.
jaelis wrote:
IIRC, Crawford has stated that this particular interaction will be the topic of an upcoming Sage Advice column.
Coredump00 wrote:
Sorry - looks like this may be resolved. An Improvised Weapon is not actually a weapon:
From the Basic Rules
In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object)
That argument doesn't convince me. I read that as saying that if an improvised weapon is similar to a regular weapon, then you can treat it as that regular weapon. Otherwise it deals 1d4 damage and it has no prof bonus. But if you say it's not a weapon at all, then all kind of things break. You wouldn't add your Str mod to attacks or damage, for instance. Why would you even be able to attack with it?
Plus I don't think it would be reasonable to call something an improvised weapon if it isn't a weapon.
jaelis wrote:
Here's how I look at it:
An improvised weapon just means it isn't defined as or made with the intent of being a weapon. Technically anything used offensively is a weapon. An umbrella used to injure is a weapon, an improvised weapon.
A shield being used as a shield is a worn defensive item (ie. Armor) and conveys +2 AC.
A shield being used as a weapon is an improvised weapon.
At my table, a duelist trying to wield two weapons (sword and shield used as improvised weapon) doesn't gain the +2 damage to their weapon.
Anyone using a shield to make an attack loses its AC bonus until the start of their next turn.
Anyone taking the dual wielder feat only gains the +1 AC bonus if using the shield as a weapon, but in doing so, they lose the +2 AC bonus since they're not using the shield as a shield.
So the options for a character with the dueling fighting style and dual wielder feat are:
If using a weapon and using a shield as a shield: +2 damage dueling bonus to weapon, +2 AC from shield.
If using a weapon and a shield as an improvised weapon: no dueling bonus to either weapon, +1 AC from dual wielding two weapons.
If using a shield as an improvised weapon and holding no other weapons: +2 damage dueling bonus to the improvised weapon, and no AC bonus.
How about this idea?
A shield is not a weapon (improvised or not) - it is armour.
Wearing armour adds to unarmed damage (perhaps +1 for medium armour, +1 for shield, +2 for heavy armour). This models headbutting your foe with a helm or kicking them with metal boots or bashing them with an armoured gauntlet or shield.
We already know how unarmed combat meshes with the various feats, so this means we do not need any extra rules to account for attacking with a shield.
How did you take tavern brawler at first level? Ability score improvement to use the optional feat is at 4th level, 8th, 12th etc. You would have to be 8th level to have both feats.
EthanSental wrote:
EthanSental wrote:
I see it so that the +1 AC you get when you have the duel wielder feat comes from being able to parry really well with one weapon while striking with the other weapon. The +2 AC from equipping a shield comes from being able to block attacks even while striking with your weapon.
Adding the two bonuses together, however, doesn't make much sense. The +1 AC is basically "half a shield" because if you strike with two weapons, you have half the time to parry. If you strike with the shield, you still only have half the time to block.
So yeah I'd agree that when you use the shield as improvised weapon, you lose the +2 AC, but you still get the +1 AC from the feat. Maaaaybe, I could be convinced as DM that the shield still gives +1 AC even when used as a weapon. But no way I'd allow it to add together to +3 AC.
Ahh, nice to know and thanks for the clarification as I'm still getting used to the ins and outs of 5e...and enjoying every minutes of it 