Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Trance-Zg Nov 25, 2014 11:43:59	The PHB is a little vague about how loud/noticable are spell verbal and somatic components.   for somatic, it say's that you need one hand free. Not arm but hand. So you cant be locked in manacles and still cast spells. Your fingers must be tied up to prevent you from casting. Also as it requiers only one hand it's easily concealable behind your back/under table, etc.   As for verbal components, it says you must not be gagged or under silence spell. It states that you must be chanting mystical words. But what does chanting means? There is no level of loudness indicated? Yelling from top or your lungs or religious chanting that is barely a whisper?   what perception DC would you give for hearing spellcasting?   15-20 for a whisper? 10 for quiet talking 5 for normal talking? -10 to -5 for yelling like a maniac?
#2 Timborama Nov 25, 2014 12:42:21	How I do it:   Anyone close to you can hear you. Anyone that can see you can also see you waving your arms/hands (unless you're hidden, but they might be able to get a check depending on the situation, due to this movement).   For me, just like how hand movements must be precise and exact (not be bound, or holding a tree trunk with both hands), so too must the verbal components be. So no mumbling, no whispering, good enunciation, no "pretending you sneeze" and a spell pops out. No need to yell, though. I mostly consider it DC 0 I think. Higher DC if you want to hear EXACTLY what they're saying (say for Spellcrafting/counterspelling purposes) but it's never really been an issue either way. Either they hear you or they don't.   Plus, this allows a Sorcerer who takes Subtle Spell to not feel hosed, and be a legit mechanical choice and not just an RP one
#3 Synjin Nov 25, 2014 13:29:22	In the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, I had a Bard that went down and failed his first two Death Saves while in The Mill section of Chapter-1 in Greenest. The two Guards he was fighting were standing over him, trying to decide what they were going to do with him. He rolled a crit on his final save and was now concious with 1 HP. I had him roll a Slight of Hand skill check DC15 to cast Minor Illusion without being seen. The spell required no Verbal component, only Somatic and Material.   He made the check, and the guards left the Mill when they heard someone's voice outside from the spell.
#4 mellored Nov 25, 2014 13:33:34	Synjin wrote:
#5 Synjin Nov 25, 2014 13:35:43	Right. I'm just saying that I used the Slight of Hand skill check in that instance. Reason being I ruled that the skill is to be able to use your hands in such a fashon as to not be seen.
#6 raleel Nov 25, 2014 14:47:34	In addition to sleight of hand I would allow deception, even keyed off of Dex. It would depend somewhat on the situation, but as deception allows for passing ones self off in disguise and specifically mentions hiding the truth through actions, I would allow it. I see very little difference between Dexterity (Deception) and Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) personally.     If they were hiding and then cast, I might prompt a stealth roll if there are verbal components, but I doubt I would on just somatic ones. If they were in a crowd or in a noisy tavern, I probably would reverse the situation.
#7 Danny_Montanny Nov 25, 2014 18:56:54	Don't count out Performance checks for those trying to pass off their spellcasting as something else.
#8 Sword_of_Spirit Nov 25, 2014 21:04:25	I think there needs to be some lee-way, whether it's via using skill checks to disguise components, or the DM just being very generous in how easy it is to conceal spellcasting. Otherwise there are a lot of spells that should just be dead giveaways (certain illusions and enchantments) where just knowing someone has cast a spell is going to make it a lot less effective than it appears it is intended to be.
#9 lawrencehoy Nov 25, 2014 21:13:52	I typically rule that lower level spells have simpler somatic components than higher level spells; so, the DC for the checks mentioned above would go up with the level of the spell (perhaps 10 + spell level).   I don't require more than a whisper for verbal components either; although they do have to be annunciated well (as someone said above, no mumbling). I might rule that certain spells would suggest that their verbal components are louder (magic mouth, hideious laughter, etc.), just for the appropriateness.