Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 turri Jun 12, 2015 1:09:46	The errata says nothig about this...so is safe to guess the warlock can add the charisma bonus to each hit of eldritch blast? even if used on the same target?
#2 Noctaem Jun 12, 2015 4:25:20	turri wrote:
#3 Kalani Jun 12, 2015 4:34:43	I would not assume it's "safe". It is "legal" however, but considering the fact that two similar abilities were nerfed with this errata; I would err on the side of caution and assume that players who use this combo do so at their own risk - as the potential of future errata nerfing it is quite high.    Yes you can do it. Yes it still works on each hit. Is it safe from errata: hardly. My money is on the combo being in the devs metaphoric crosshairs and that they are watching it very closely
#4 mellored Jun 12, 2015 5:23:10	Balance wise, warlocks should have it for every attack.
#5 turri Jun 12, 2015 9:30:14	Well, Warlocks are like "cantrip dependant"...or a lot more than a full caster. I guess they doing 4 times 1d10+car is almost like a warrior doing 4 basic attacks.
#6 JackOfAllTirades Jun 12, 2015 9:46:07	Yeah, I'm pretty sure Eldritch Blast got passed over in this errata for a reason.
#7 QwertyAzerty Jun 12, 2015 10:59:50	yeah because a warlock whith 4 attacks dealin 1d10+5 FORCE damage as an at will abilities, with only 2 warlock level and scaling with your character level without correlation with warlock level, allowing them to go full sorcerer after to still gain higher level spell and quicken metamagic so now they can have 8 attacks dealing 1d10+5 FORCE damage then take warcaster and position themself for attack of opportunity for now gaining 12 attacks dealing 1d10+5 FORCE damage each is so much more balance then the sorcerer doing 10 time 2d6+5 FIRE damage once per day, then 9 time 2d6+5 FIRE damage once per day (instead of casting Wish or Meteor swarm both with greater potential then this broken combo).   Remember force damage is stronger then fire damage since force do not burn the parchemin the BBEG was carrying. There is like only 2 monster int he monster manual with resistance to Force, compare to all the demon, devil and many more being resistance or immune to fire. many spell can reduce fire damage, other then shield blocking magic missile, I don't know any spell blocking force damage.   Gratz WotC on your awesome math skills and abilities to balance different class. WotC if you didn't want player to play sorcerer why did you add it to the game? you could simply have left it out of the game, just giving the player the wizard, your favorite full arcane caster.   I wish WotC was smart enought to realize that many people on these forum are complaining about class imbalance, but they don't respect the rules. Like that guy who was complaining that the sorcerer in his party was casting fireball twice per round using quicken spell... the problem is not fireball being too powerfull, the problem is not quicken metamagic being too powerfull, it's the DM who didn't read the PHB and/or didn't understood that you cannot cast 2 spell using a bonus action. an action and a bonus action allow for only 1 spell and 1 cantrip to be cast.
(Reply to #7) Lilika	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#9 turri Jun 12, 2015 11:07:07	I assumes they do class balance bassed on no multiclass...but again, you are right
#10 Noctaem Jun 12, 2015 11:09:03	So you're comparing a very specific warlock build, with feats, etc..  invested into it and what not to a sorc build without any such specifics to then claim the first is unbalanced.  Oh ok...
#11 Lilika Jun 12, 2015 11:12:32	Everytime I look into multiclassing for one of my character concepts I soon realize what I give up is worth more that what I get.  I'm not saying multiclassing is always not worth it, I just haven't seen a trade off that I could live with yet.
#12 FunkySpunk Jun 12, 2015 11:25:57	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#13 Kalani Jun 12, 2015 11:27:37	Barbarian 3/Moon Druid X - Rage; Advantage on Grapple checks; ability to grapple anything (once huge forms come online); increased wildshape AC (due to unarmored defense); Reckless Attack; increased damage; and resistance to all damage except psychic.    Barbarian 5/Moon Druid X - All of the above plus extra attack. Most of the single-attack creatures have superior attacks to the multiattack forms. Dire Wolf + Extra Attack; yes please. Or how about a giant elk with two attacks/round? At high levels - you end up with an Elephant with multiple attacks.....   Yes, this path delays wildshape forms, however the increased survivability and combat prowess more than offsets the delay IMO, esp. once you consider the fact that many forms are only a slight upgrade to existing forms (brown bear > polar bear for example).
#14 mellored Jun 12, 2015 11:31:57	I'm not seeing the issue.  As you go up in levels, you cast cantrips less and less.   If battles are 2-3 rounds, and you have 6 battles a day = 15 rounds a day. A level 20 sorcerer can cast fireball 15 times.  Not counting any created spells slots.  Plus 7 left over for utility.
(Reply to #8) FrogReaver	Lilika wrote:
(Reply to #14) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#17 mellored Jun 12, 2015 11:34:48	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #8) QwertyAzerty	Lilika wrote:
#19 mellored Jun 12, 2015 13:10:52	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#20 durntaur Jun 12, 2015 15:33:41	I was going to post a defense, but I see everything is under control here.
#21 Coredump00 Jun 12, 2015 22:44:50	To the OP.   The sorc and evoker errata was not to 'change' the class... it was because the rules were not presented in the correct manner.   EB/AG rules are presented correctly so they were not errata'd.   They *might* get changed when they get around to changing/modifying the game....but who knows when that might be.  In my biased opinion, I think they will keep that combo, if they change anything it might be to 'slow down' the AB bonus. (My suggestion is to limit the added damage by warlock level.)   But in any case, nothiing is likely to change any time soon.
#22 ZHDarkstar Jun 13, 2015 14:22:38	Agonizing Blast is like the Fighting Style built for EB longevity. EB feels more like a weapon than your average spell, especially at the cantrip level. I think turning EB to a cantrip was a concession made to adapt the warlock's non-traditional magic to the streamlined 5e magic system.   Does it sting that the bread and butter of the warlock can be picked up at full strength in a 2 dip? A little. Does it take sacrifice and jumping through hoops to get the levels of cheese described above in great detail? You bet it does. The thing that is overlooked is that it doesn't begin to coalesce until the second tier of play, and still requires waiting until the fourth tier to fully manifest. At that point, almost everyone should have some cheese in their pocket.
#23 JackOfAllTirades Jun 13, 2015 21:43:22	durntaur wrote:
#24 Byakugan01 Jun 14, 2015 0:30:49	You guys are discussing 19-20 level characters.     But my 4th level PC ranger already does 25 damage a shot already....big picture is in 1000 more experience that turns into 50 damage a round.    6th level sorc dealing 8d6+20 to a single target is cute...but he could have just cast twin haste like he should have the sharp shooter, collosus slayer, blessed, hunter marking ranger and the power attacking, raging, reckless barbarian will do more damage anyways.  The +2 AC is virtual healing in 5e.  I miss my players all the damn time by 1 or 2 pts.    Meteor swarm is a pretty terrible spell for Sorc btw...they have no good way to cope with the GIGaNTIc area of effect.  Evocation wizards, however.  Do you really build sorc without Wish or Foresight?
#25 Undrhil Jun 14, 2015 20:13:58	Sorcerers don't get the Foresight spell.
#26 Byakugan01 Jun 14, 2015 20:39:27	Missed that.   But by then the Sorc already has infinite free wishes and simulacrum clones so it don't matter.   He just makes several simulacra of the party wizard and get foresight for whole party. They can already grant perma resistance to all damage types to whole party and reverse time and or completely heal party for free every turn as many times as they need to to keep everyone alive.   No biggie.