Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Coolossus2123 Jul 25, 2015 19:09:50	I recently picked up the PHB and I’m a little confused about when you’re supposed to roll for initiative? I'm going to start DMing for a few friends, and were all pretty new to the game. I understand it’s generally when you encounter enemies that want to attack you. But for example, what happens if a player sees a troll on a bridge, and attempts to push him off which requires him to make a Strength check. He fails the check, and the troll tries to hit him in return. Must everyone roll for initiative first before the troll completes his strike? How about when a player encounters an NPC they want to blast with a fireball for betraying them to some thieves for a meager amount of silver. Must the player roll for initiative as well as the NPC, if the NPC is not also trying to attack the player and just wants to talk? Finally, what about a group of orcs unaware to the party stealthily advancing towards them? Must the party alert the orcs before attacking them, so they can logically roll for initiative? Or can the party fire arrows down from the large tree they snuck on at them without rolling for initiative?
#2 jaelis Jul 25, 2015 19:33:49	Pushing the troll is a form of attack, so it should take place as part of combat. If it is clear that the troll and player are hostile, you should roll initiative as soon as they see one another. If it isn't clear, then you should roll initiative as soon as one of them decides to attack (before the attack takes place).   In the case of the orcs, everyone rolls initiative before the players attack, but if the orcs are surprised then they don't get to act during the first round of combat.
#3 iserith Jul 25, 2015 19:34:57	When there's a certainty of violent conflict between the PCs and the PCs' enemies, the DM calls for initiative after determining whether or not whether any of the creatures involved are surprised and the relative location of all participants in the conflict. As an ability check, initiative is only necessary when the order in which the participants in the conflict act is uncertain. If you know for sure the order in which the participants act because of how the scene is playing out, then you don't need initiative - just take turns. Generally, however, you'll want to call for initiative since combat tends to represent a large amount of uncertainty.   Coolossus2123 wrote:
(Reply to #3) Meta4ic	iserith wrote:
#5 El_Condoro Jul 26, 2015 0:50:33	Meta4ic wrote:
#6 Coredump00 Jul 26, 2015 10:59:17	Another option is to give the Cleric advantage on their initiative check.
(Reply to #3) MasterNamer	iserith wrote:
#8 Coolossus2123 Jul 28, 2015 18:28:08	I guess one of the problems was that I got the idea combat in this game, was pokemonesque. Like it was a thing where you sort of get "sucked" into combat when enemies are near, and that is why you take the turns and get actions and such on your turn; its a different sort of gameplay dynamic from when characters are just walking around and doing other stuff. But that again didnt quite make sense to me, as there are many situations that i feel would be limited by that, I'm now under the impression it's still mostly similar, but it isn't always as cut and dry. So largely the consensus is, its a tool of the DM. There is no *mandatory* situation for initiative rolls, its when the DM deems it is appropriate in the situation to manage play better? Meaning Initiative is most often required to be rolled after one creature initiates an attack on another, or when confrontation is unavoidable and assumed to take place, such as when a duo of bandits approach with their daggers drawn? So with the orc situation I mentioned, as it is a tool of the players, not something that happens in the world of the game, the DM could decide to let the arrows strike them, then require an intitiative roll for further combat, also having the orcs starting out suprised in the first round. As it wouldn't make since for the players to say "I want to shoot an arrows at that unaware orcs" and the DM requires everyone to roll for initiative, because if the players who wanted to shoot the orcs got lower in the order, nothing would get done as the orcs aren't even aware they are there This is further reinforced to me by the examples of Suprise on page 189 such as "a band of adventurers sneaks up on a bandit camp, swinging down from the trees to attack them", or "a gelatinous cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them". To me these all show examples of a creature attacking another before official combat requiring an initiative roll starts, and leaves the attacked creatures suprised. The only thing that still confuses me on this, is would you allow multiple people to attack something before combat formally starts, or would you guys require them to take turns, letting only one person attack an orc with an arrow, letting the rest of them get alerted, roll for intiative, etc. Maybe that's an even bigger issue i'm not quite clear on. In any situation out of combat, do you allow players to do things at the same time, or must they take turns for whatever they attempt? Also,  I said   Masternamer I'm also still a bit confused about what you said with reactions in the first round when a creature is suprised. You say in one sentence "A  creature can use their reaction after their turn has ended during the first round even if they're surprised." but in the following sentence "Creatures are able to use reactions in the first round if they're not surprised or if their turn has ended." don't these contradict? In the PHB on page 189 it states "If you're suprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends", so I assume it's the former. Besides that, do I have the other stuff right? But one last question here: In a tweet Jeremy Crawford recently responded to, a person asked if you could use your reaction in the first round of combat if you haven't taken your turn yet. Can someone explain to me how this is possible?
#9 Rya.Reisender Jul 29, 2015 0:31:04	In short you could also say that, you roll initiative when acting order matters.   For me that's usually any offensive interaction, including pushing away, knocking out, backstab, throw a stone at his head, etc.   I found players will have no problem to adapt to this pretty fast and make it quite clear whether they want to talk with the enemies first or attack them right away. In the worst case I just ask them.