Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ChaoticGod Sep 10, 2015 18:28:18	An Elemental Monk has to give up his regular attacks,  his martial arts attacks,  FoB,  and multiple Ki to cast a spell that falls farther and farther behind as character levels increase.   This makes it the weakest of the monk subclasses.    Water Whip was listed as a bonus action but errata'd to a standard.  Why aren't all the elemental disciplines a bonus action that, for that turn, would replace martial arts?   Was that the way it started and Water Whip evaded the nerf bat for a short time?   With a quarterstaff a monk can attack and then use MA and FoB for 1 Ki.    1d8+3, 1d4+3, 1d4+3  so about  16 damage.    And then again the next turn for another 1 Ki.   16 damage for 32 that can all hit one target.  Any of those hits could also be a stunning strike.    Or the monk could release a Thunderwave at 2-3 enemies for 2 KI.    This varies from 8 to  24 damage depending on targets and saves spread out over multiple targets.   On a second turn the monk just attacks and uses MA for around 11 damage.  So the same or less damage spread over multiple targets and no stunning strikes.      Yes I like monks with elemental effects, I think its a cool but why does the monk have to give up his primary attack and stunning strike for it?  Can't a street fighter punch or kick you and then yell Hadoken to nail you with something they can only do once or twice per short rest?  How else can the huge Ki cost be justified?    What am I missing?
#2 jaelis Sep 10, 2015 19:06:22	I think elemental monks are noticably weak, and my impression is that many people agree.   I've wondered whether it would work to simply reduce the ki cost of all the disciplines by one. I think making the effects bonus actions would probably be too good.
#3 Meta4ic Sep 11, 2015 4:39:27	I'm currently running a game for a party of 5 PC's. They only reached level 4, but so far the Elemental monk is doing pretty well, damage-wise. Since it's our 1st campaign in 5th edition, we keep record of damage done per round of combat, as to see how each class fares. The results after 4 levels are : Light cleric (11.6 dpr, mostly due to Radiance of the dawn), Elemental monk (7.2 dpr), Oath of the ancients paladin (6.8 dpr), Draconic bloodline sorcerer (5.4 dpr) and Lore bard (5.0 dpr).   Our monk doesn't feel he lacks power or resources and likes the fluff of the character. The only issue is his Water whip, which is failing to work each time he tries it, the monsters rolling succesful saves.   So far, so good! But then again, things can change over the next 15 levels!
#4 mellored Sep 10, 2015 20:32:18	i would reduce cost OR let it be a bonus action. they are weak, but not that weak.