Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Brige Sep 17, 2014 18:09:21	Where are the Fascinate and UMD abilities for the Bard?  You left out the two best abilities they ever had.  Now, I am not saying the class is not playable or I dislike it.  But, come on, give them back their main abilities.  And, this song (bardic inspiration) per charisma mod is crazy.  Bard's are suppose to boost party members and fascinate mobs with their songs.  You have severly crippled this class.
#2 Thank_Dog Sep 17, 2014 18:47:48	Because they're already overpowered as it is.
#3 2Chlorobutanal Sep 17, 2014 18:55:17	Bards do a pretty good job of boosting people - they can use Bardic Inspiration up to 5 times / short rest, which may often work out to be up to 10 or 15 times per day.   Fascination can be considered to be part of the Bard's spell selection now- there are many charm or incapacitate effects in there.   UMD was originally a Rogue deal that got carried over to Bards by virtue of the 3rd edition skill system, and they ended up better at it because of the Charisma modifier.  Now, UMD is the domain of Thief Rogues only, but Bards are full casters, comparable to Wizards or Clerics - so I don't think they necessarily need more ability to use magic items.
#4 Ashrym Sep 17, 2014 19:33:44	Yeah, the move to full caster and general removal of umd makes sense. Most rogues don't have it either. Magical performance with things like fascinate or suggestion shared space with spells so it's easier just to use spells. You can use friends or a higher level charm instead. I find it much more streamlined this way. They keep magical abilities, skills, and inspiration so flavor is pretty good and versatility is very high.
#5 Timborama Sep 18, 2014 5:58:54	Fascinate is now several spells. Want a bard that has Fascinate? Take Hypnotic Gaze, Friends, Suggestion, or Charm Person.   Want Use Magic Device? Well...we're not really sure how magic devices even work, so reserve that judgement until after the DMG comes out!
#6 Arbitrary_Aardvark Sep 18, 2014 8:27:13	I really like the fact that they simplified bardic bonuses to the use of bardic inspiration. Back when I ran a bard, it was pretty frustrating to spend my turn starting up a song, then the next turn a second song (so effects overlapped), trying to tell people what the bonuses were, and having them totally ignored. I think that 3/4 of the time no one bothered to take advantage, even though these were serious (+4) bonuses at my level.
#7 Brige Sep 18, 2014 8:45:14	I agree that most party members never took advantage of Bard songs.  However, I do not agree that using the enchantment spells makes up for not having an enchantment song like fascinate.  The bard had all of those spells before, so it is not a buff or increase in power to the class.  The one increase in spell effectiveness is that the save DC for bards is now on par with save DCs of other classess.  Bravo for that Wotc team!!  But, using a spell takes a spell slot, while using a song takes a song slot.  That is where they took away the extra power and versatility of the bard.  The bard has fewer chances to beguile/fascinate an enemy now.
#8 Yunru Sep 18, 2014 9:33:33	So... this is a rant on how your favourite class got nerfe, and you wnat it un-nerfed balance be dammed? In the Rules forum no less? Yeah, you're really selling yourself well.
#9 mellored Sep 18, 2014 9:37:21	Bards are a pretty good class overall.
(Reply to #7) Ashrym	Brige wrote:
#11 Shadewyn Sep 18, 2014 17:03:12	A bard with 2nd level "Nystuls Magic Aura" if I recall has most of the functionality of a UMD anyway as a way to cheat requirements to pass certain magical requirements.
#12 Undrhil Sep 18, 2014 20:41:25	If a magic device (like a wand) has a spell on your spell list, then you just use the device.   If a magic device (like a wand) has a spell that is not on your spell list, then you have to make a Intelligence check (forgot the DC but it's in the PHB) and then you can use it.   Other magic devices will probably work the same way if they have some kind of activation or class/race limitations.
#13 Oraibi Sep 19, 2014 2:28:17	Just because a class had something in one single edition doesnt mean it's "been taken away" because 5th edition doesn't have it.   1st, 2nd, 4th editions didn't have the exact abilities you're asking for; 3rd is the outlier here.