Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 leonardoraele Jul 04, 2015 20:13:22	Does Wild Shape's beats' natural weapons are considered unarmed-strikes for the purpose of monk's Martial Arts feature?   If yes, does this means that a monk 1, druid 2 (moon) character can transform into a brown bear and use it's Claws action as a bonus action?
#2 jaelis Jul 04, 2015 21:03:56	No, an unarmed strike is different from a natural weapon. Arguably a monk in beast form still has an unarmed strike, but it does the same damage as is normal form.
#3 mrpopstar Jul 04, 2015 21:19:46	I've had this combo on my mind since the errata to the Player's Handbook clarified unarmed strikes. I'm very interested to see how the upcoming errata to the Monster Manual clarifies natural weapons.
#4 Coredump00 Jul 04, 2015 23:26:26	I think it is debateable, but I think not.    If you allow the natural weapons to be Unarmed Strikes, it means that a Monk 3 does 2D4+6 damage (3D4+9 FoB), and a monk1/Druid2 does 4D6+8 damage (6D6+12 FoB) A Monk 7 doesn 3D6+12 or 4D6+16 and a Monk5/Druid2 does 6D6+12 or 8D6+16. (This assumes the monk starts with 16 Dex and boosts to 18 at lvl 4)   I means that a 3rd level character (monk1/druid2) does more damage than a 20th level monk. (3D10+15 vs 6D6+12) (Though the Monk20 can do a lot more FoB)     I don't think that was the intention of the rules.
#5 lawrencehoy Jul 05, 2015 7:02:00	mrpopstar wrote:
#6 jaelis Jul 05, 2015 7:34:48	Interesting, I wouldn't have said there was any reason to think natural weapons would count as unarmed strikes. I guess maybe I could see how you could use a natural weapon to make an unarmed strike, like if you have a natural weapon that is a fist. But if you did that I would think you'd need to follow the unarmed strike rules and do the regular unarmed strike damage. Just like if you decide to use a regular weapon as an improvised weapon, you do the normal improvised weapon damage.   The thing I'd like to see clarified is if a natural weapon is a valid target for the magic weapon spell.
#7 Yunru Jul 05, 2015 7:36:52	Nothing says they're not. Everything about them matches the description of Unarmed Strikes. Alter Form also links the two.
#8 mrpopstar Jul 05, 2015 7:48:28	jaelis wrote:
#9 Kalani Jul 05, 2015 13:48:50	While not explicitly stated - I think the forthcoming MM errata will clarify that Unarmed Strike is a subtype of natural weapon.
(Reply to #9) Yunru	Kalani wrote:
#11 jaelis Jul 05, 2015 17:28:01	Well, here's my reasoning for why, as the rules currently stand, natural weapons are not unarmed strikes.   The unarmed strike rule says: Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.
#12 mrpopstar Jul 05, 2015 17:59:53	jaelis wrote:
#13 jaelis Jul 05, 2015 20:06:30	If you ask me, the fact that an ape's fist is listed as a natural weapon means that it is not like a human's fist. The ape's fist is a weapon, a human's fist is not. Therefore striking with a human fist in an unarmed strike, while a ape striking with its fist is using a weapon.
#14 Kalani Jul 08, 2015 7:58:30	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #14) Yunru	Kalani wrote: