Wildshape and Ability Score Increases from Feats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 AH_Ramiel Nov 28, 2014 13:33:18	On page 67, it says wildshaping druids "retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so". Feats are only granted by races or class levels, so they arguably qualify as "class features" or, for variant humans, "race features". Even if they didn't, I'm having a hard time imagining an interpretation where feats didn't qualify as an "other source". So it seems likely that Druids can use their feats even while wildshaped. Given the number of animals with odd physical stats, I would think that feats that provide a +1 bonus to physical ability scores are quite potent for Druids. On the other hand, allowing feats to substantially change the stat block of the animal seems anathema to the principle of keeping things simple by using the animal's stat block in place of your own. Accordingly, it seems like applying ability score increases from feats to wildshape forms might well be unintended. Did I miss something?
#2 cowleymen Nov 28, 2014 16:05:30	Feats effect your natural states ability scores. You could still benifit from other features and things a feat gives, but feats that give a +1 to ability scores shouldnt affect your beast forms
#3 Illithidbix Nov 28, 2014 16:12:50	I personally would think it would be very odd altering Beast form STR/DEX/CON from feats. "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast but you retain your alignment, personality and INT, WIS and CHA scores" seems pretty clearly intended for me. Technically "Ability Score Improvements" are class features but I don't think you'd add any advancements you've taken in physical stats when you turn into a bear. It's one of the "rules are clearly intended, if not specified" circumstances.
#4 Macv12 Nov 28, 2014 20:16:59	Agreed. The feat adds to your base score in general circumstances, which the beast form explicitly overwrites. They're base alterations in the same sense that HP is, even though that's tied to your class and could be considered a "class feature" (by a stretch, admittedly). Yet you wouldn't add your d8's or however many levels of CON modifier to your beast form HP. That said, a Druid dependent on beast form isn't getting much out of that stat boost anyway, so I would consider letting them juice up their beasts as part of their leveling strategy. Beast form isn't exactly the most overpowering melee choice, so I doubt it would break too much.

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AH_Ramiel

Nov 28, 2014 13:33:18

On page 67, it says wildshaping druids "retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so". Feats are only granted by races or class levels, so they arguably qualify as "class features" or, for variant humans, "race features". Even if they didn't, I'm having a hard time imagining an interpretation where feats didn't qualify as an "other source". So it seems likely that Druids can use their feats even while wildshaped.

Given the number of animals with odd physical stats, I would think that feats that provide a +1 bonus to physical ability scores are quite potent for Druids. On the other hand, allowing feats to substantially change the stat block of the animal seems anathema to the principle of keeping things simple by using the animal's stat block in place of your own. Accordingly, it seems like applying ability score increases from feats to wildshape forms might well be unintended. Did I miss something?

cowleymen

Nov 28, 2014 16:05:30

Feats effect your natural states ability scores. You could still benifit from other features and things a feat gives, but feats that give a +1 to ability scores shouldnt affect your beast forms

Illithidbix

Nov 28, 2014 16:12:50

I personally would think it would be very odd altering Beast form STR/DEX/CON from feats.

"Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast but you retain your alignment, personality and INT, WIS and CHA scores" seems pretty clearly intended for me.

Technically "Ability Score Improvements" are class features but I don't think you'd add any advancements you've taken in physical stats when you turn into a bear.

It's one of the "rules are clearly intended, if not specified" circumstances.

Macv12

Nov 28, 2014 20:16:59

Agreed. The feat adds to your base score in general circumstances, which the beast form explicitly overwrites. They're base alterations in the same sense that HP is, even though that's tied to your class and could be considered a "class feature" (by a stretch, admittedly). Yet you wouldn't add your d8's or however many levels of CON modifier to your beast form HP.

That said, a Druid dependent on beast form isn't getting much out of that stat boost anyway, so I would consider letting them juice up their beasts as part of their leveling strategy. Beast form isn't exactly the most overpowering melee choice, so I doubt it would break too much.