Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Undrhil Sep 25, 2014 22:56:07	Let's assume I am playing a Fighter 2|Wizard 1 (or a EK 3) and I have Witch Bolt as a level 1 spell and I cast said spell on a bad guy.  Assuming the spell hit, on each turn thereafter, as long as the bad guy stays within 30' of me, I can use my action to automatically deal 1d12 damage to that bad guy.  Witch Bolt says that the spell ends if I use my action for any other purpose.   So, what if I action surge?  Action Surge is a level 2 Fighter ability that gives the fighter another action on their turn, once per short rest.  Would making a standard weapon attack with the action surge action cancel out Witch Bolt?  Can I use the Action Surge action to deal the automatic damage from Witch Bolt a second time?
#2 Ganymede425 Sep 25, 2014 23:02:56	"on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else."   Based on the first bolded portion, I'd say that you could indeed use Action Surge to either cast the spell and then do an additional 1d12 in the same turn, or inflict 1d12 twice in a single turn.   Based on the second bolded portion of the spell, I'd say that using either of your two Action Surge actions to make a standard weapon attack would indeed end the spell. So... bad news and good news.
#3 2Chlorobutanal Sep 25, 2014 23:10:42	Yep, this seems to be the case.  As Action Surge is supposed to be a "bonus," I would probably let a player use it to do anything they want and not end the witch bolt, but, technically, using Action Surge to do something other than cause 1d12 damage should end the spell.
#4 Drycanth Sep 25, 2014 23:45:38	action surge is an additional action or a bonus use of action. You would have to use your standard action to do the damage, your bonus action and any reactions would not cancle the spells effect. it is not your action it is additional action not your action for the turn. you did not use your action to do something else you used your additional action to make an attack ... the requirments of the spell do not require all actions in the turn only the action meaning your standard action of the turn.
#5 Vlandis Sep 26, 2014 6:15:02	I agree with everyone else here that by the rules you couldn't attack with a weapon. But maybe ask your DM to house rule it so you have to make a concentration check to maintain the spell. That seems reasonable to me anyway
#6 mellored Sep 26, 2014 6:54:27	IMO:   If you use your action (surge) to do something else, it's broken. However you can use your action (surge), to deal the auto-damage twice.     And really, if you have witchbolt running, you might as well take advantage of the auto-damage.
#7 Timborama Sep 26, 2014 7:00:58	I just wish Witch Bolt scaled better so it was less useless :-( 5d12 at Spell level 5 is neat, but maintaining it at 1d12 is kinda "meh." Only really Sith Lords or Sorcerers can make full use of this spell.   +1d12 for both damages for every other spell level used. maybe? (3, 5, 7, 9)
#8 1eejit Sep 26, 2014 7:08:36	The only edge case I can think where maintaining auto-damage might shine is to maintain Slimy Doom Contagion stuns on a very difficult to hit and/or dangerous secondary target.
#9 mellored Sep 26, 2014 7:35:06	The biggest issue with the spell is that it's auto-damage doesn't scale.
#10 Undrhil Sep 26, 2014 13:46:56	I think it would be better if the auto-damage used your bonus action on subsequent turns, instead of your action.  They could even call it "casting a bonus action spell" so you are limited to using a cantrip if you are continuing to use the auto-damage.    This would fix it, in my mind.    Also, it would eliminate the question of "double-dipping" using Action Surge, since it would then be a bonus action, of which you only can ever use one per turn.   Thoughts?   Of course, as it stands, using your action each turn to deal 1d12 damage is equivalent to hitting with a 1d8 + mod weapon attack, on average (assuming you might miss some turns with the weapon, is why I think it would match up with a 1d8 + mod weapon instead of a 1d10 + mod weapon.)  So, the question then becomes: why would a spellcaster waste their time with a 1d8 + mod weapon when they could be using a multiple damage die cantrip?
#11 FarBeyondC Sep 27, 2014 0:54:49	Undrhil wrote:
#12 Yunru Sep 27, 2014 1:05:41	Cantrips scale by character level. By the end of it, Eldritch Blast is doing 1d10 per hit with 4 hits whilst Fire Bolt does 4d10 but only a single hit. So yes, multiple damage dice cantrips are impossible to avoid (without avoiding all damaging cantrips).
#13 Saelorn Sep 27, 2014 2:03:12	Ganymede425 wrote:
#14 grendel111111 Sep 27, 2014 7:55:39	Does empowered evocation add damage to the 1d12 each round after the first?   Also if you are a sorcerer can you use quickenspell to cast an attack spell as a bonus action and keep doing the damage from the witch bolt?
#15 mellored Sep 27, 2014 13:16:14	grendel111111 wrote:
#16 Timborama Sep 27, 2014 15:14:16	Yeah, as i said above, Sorcerers are pretty much the only class to hope to get any mileage out of Witch Bolt :-x
#17 mellored Sep 27, 2014 16:30:00	Timborama wrote:
#18 Timborama Sep 29, 2014 6:22:16	mellored wrote: