Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Undrhil Aug 01, 2015 16:42:46	Had an issue come up in the game last night.    I have a Wizard of the Divination school and one of his portent dice for the day was a 7.  We were fighting against a creature that is "highly resistant" to magic, meaning that they get advantage on saving throws against magic spells.   So, I cast Banishment on one of these creatures and declared the use of my portent die to make it have a 7 on the saving throw roll.  The DM said that since the creature has advantage, it would still roll and then one of the two would be replaced.  I argued that I am outright replacing the roll with my portent die.   Who was right in this regard, based on RAW?
#2 Yunru Aug 01, 2015 18:04:15	You were. You were replacing the roll. The roll would of been {highest 1 of 2d20}, and thus you replace that in it's entirety. Note it would still count as having advantage, for things like rogues attacking with sneak attack. Of course a Legendary creature can use a legendary save to auto-pass so portent could still of been overridden.
#3 jaelis Aug 01, 2015 19:39:21	I agree, portent lets you replace an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check. Whether that roll, throw or check has advantage or disadvantage doesn't matter, since you are replacing it. Compare to the wording of the Lucky feat, which specifically replaces dice, and therefore works differently with advantage/disadvantage.
#4 FarBeyondC Aug 01, 2015 20:33:59	jaelis wrote:
#5 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 02, 2015 1:00:47	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #4) Yunru	FarBeyondC wrote:
#7 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 02, 2015 7:07:15	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #6) FarBeyondC	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #8) Yunru	FarBeyondC wrote:
(Reply to #8) Undrhil	FarBeyondC wrote:
#11 Macv12 Aug 02, 2015 9:03:40	"Portent" is the wizard seeing the future. They know what will happen. The player is allowed metagame control of exactly which roll the wizard foresaw, but in-universe it's still seeing the future. A monster being highly unlikely to succumb to something is irrelevant. I saw the future. They succumbed. They aren't so resistant that it echoes through time and defies magical precognition.
#12 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 02, 2015 9:17:17	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #12) Lucas_Blackstone	The d20's used in a saving throw, ability check or attack roll made with advantage or disadvantage are not actually the result of the roll. They are part of the mechanic used to determine the check/roll/saving throw. If you rolled a 1 and a 20 on your attack roll made with advantage or disadvantage, you did not critcally hit and automatically miss, because you did not get a 1 and a 20 on the check, which is what would occur of those were the attack rolls. But the rules say you pick the one that applies for the roll, and that is the check.   You are not replacing a d20 roll, but an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check ( most of them happen to be a d20 roll, but that doesn't mean you are replacing a d20 roll ).
(Reply to #12) Macv12	Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
#15 Greenstone.Walker Aug 02, 2015 16:30:06	Excellent summary, but I think that step 3 is not actually done - the portent roll replaces is. Also, I'd like to include the fact that the roll is still at advantage or disadvantage.   FarBeyondC wrote:
#16 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 02, 2015 19:09:03	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #16) Yunru	Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
#18 Undrhil Aug 03, 2015 5:37:04	OK, how about this: you go ahead and waste time rolling your dice.  Let me know what the die you choose shows and I'll remind you that I've replaced it with my portent result.  I might feel goofy because I replaced a roll of 1 with a roll of 7, but I might get to feel giddy for replacing a roll of 20 with a roll of 7.   In either case, your die roll *doesn't matter* because Portent takes precedence.  Your modifiers and other bonuses *do* matter, of course.   But at the end of the turn, my portent die is what showed up on your final d20, so why waste time actually rolling the die or dice?   That's all I'm saying.
#19 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 03, 2015 10:28:42	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #16) Macv12	Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
#21 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 03, 2015 23:10:40	Macv12 wrote:
#22 Yunru Aug 04, 2015 4:51:17	It doesn't change the fact that Portent replaces the entire roll, advantage and disadvantage included.
#23 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 04, 2015 5:31:13	Yunru wrote:
#24 Yunru Aug 04, 2015 6:50:33	Yes but in either case, being it replacing the roll pre or post modifiers, the OPs DM was wrong. That we can agree on?
#25 Slagger_the_Chuul Aug 05, 2015 2:40:43	For that, we'd need to exclude the possibility that a particular d20 on its own can be considered an "attack roll", otherwise it could be replacing just one of the multiple d20 rolls used by advantage/disadvantage.   There's a difference between what I'd say is probably wrong and what I can definitively exclude from being possible.  It's a case where I'd definitely like to see errata or a developer response, both on the initial issue and the question of natural 1 and natural 20 rolls.