Wizard's Spellbook and Multiclassing - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Fizzlewick Sep 17, 2014 6:45:48	I looking for some help parsing how the Wizard's Spellbook rule applies to multiclassing. Say I'm a Cleric 1/Wizard 4. The Multiclassing rules state pretty clearly the following things. For the purposes of spell slots, I'm considered a 5th level full caster. This means I have 2 level 3 casting slots. For the purposes of Wizard spells known and able to be prepared I'm treated as a 4th level Wizard. Furthermore, if I look at the Wizard rules for what spells I can learn upon leveling into Wizard 4, it explains I can add to my spellbook two wizard spells and that "these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table." So when I hit Wizard level 4 I cannot learn any 3rd level spells because I do not have any Wizard spell slots of that level. However, the "as shown on the Wizard table" caveat is missing from the description of adding new spells given in the "Your Spellbook" section of the Wizard clas and of preparing spells given in the "Preparing and Casting Spells" section of the Wizard class. Both of those sections simply reference "a level for which you have spell slots." So unless I'm missing something, it appears that by RAW this character could find a Fireball spell in another Wizard's spellbook and add this to his own spellbook and then prepare this spell (since when multiclassing as described I have 2 level 3 spell slots). Is this the designer's intent? Or, do you think I've simply found a typo (the "as shown on the Wizard table" caveat really should be included in the other places I mention)? Alternatively, maybe this isn't RAI or RAW and I'm overlooking some relevant portion of the PHB. My own thoughts are that I'm not sure if I'd want a Wizard 1/Cleric 19 abusing this reading to take any spells from either class. But I wouldn't mind an Eldritch Knight 6/Wizard 3 who wanted add a level 3 wizard spell to his spellbook. (Sorry if this has been debated/answered before. I'm a pretty regular lurker, and I don't think I've seen it discussed.)
#2 2Chlorobutanal Sep 17, 2014 7:00:13	I believe the Multiclassing rules specifically address spell preparation for each individual class, effectively stopping the fireball tactic. The umbrella rule is that you may only know and prepare spells that you could know or prepare as a member of one specific class (Wizard, for example). I believe that the rules about "if you have spell slots of that level" are applied in the context of a single class Wizard, as multiclassing is technically an optional rule. Because of this, I would take the multiclassing rules as stronger than anything that would appear to contradict them in the class descriptions when applied to multiclassing. "You may copy a spell if it's of a level for which you have spell slots" would translate to "you may copy a spell if it's of a level for which a Wizard of your Wizard level would have spell slots." The intention is apparently not to violate these rules, as the multiclass spell preparation example states that a multiclass Wizard 3 can only have up to 2 second-level spells in his or her book.
#3 Fizzlewick Sep 17, 2014 7:01:15	Oh, I think I see what you mean. I had read that section before, and I thought I was following those rules. However, I take it that since you are preparing the spells as if you were a singleclass 4th level Wizard you wouldn't have any level 3 spell slots. Thanks!
#4 ASilva91084 Sep 17, 2014 8:06:12	I take it to mean that each of your single classes can prepare their own spells, but your spell SLOTS are combined based on your overall level.
#5 rmn498 Sep 17, 2014 19:42:00	Consider this. Take the same Cleric 1/Wizard 4 that was mentioned before. We know that the character has two 3rd level spell slots per the Multiclass Spellcaster table. According to the Wizard's Spellbook class feature, When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
#6 2Chlorobutanal Sep 17, 2014 21:17:18	I would apply the same multiclassing rules to both daily spell preparation and scribing in a spellbook - the language is pretty similar, and I consider scribing into a spellbook to fall under category of "known spells." As far as literal reading goes, I would again stress that multiclass rules are optional and therefore take precedent over the class-specific rules when a conflict occurs. If chapter 3 says that a Wizard can scribe a spell into his or her book (because of multiclass spell slots) but chapter 6 says otherwise (because casters should determine spells known and prepared as a single class character), the chapter 6 rule would prevail in my mind.
#7 Valdark Sep 17, 2014 23:17:19	"Preparing and casting spells second paragraph You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum 1). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." Page 164 "Spell slots You determine your spell slots by adding together all your levels in bard, cleric, druid, etc etc. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table. If you have more than one spell casting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare." page 114 "Your spellbook The spells that you add to your spellbook as you gain levels reflect.... You might find other spells during your adventures. Copying a Spell into the Book When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. ..... Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells."
#8 E-Tallitnics Sep 18, 2014 0:19:32	Valdark wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Fizzlewick

Sep 17, 2014 6:45:48

I looking for some help parsing how the Wizard's Spellbook rule applies to multiclassing. Say I'm a Cleric 1/Wizard 4. The Multiclassing rules state pretty clearly the following things.

For the purposes of spell slots, I'm considered a 5th level full caster. This means I have 2 level 3 casting slots.

For the purposes of Wizard spells known and able to be prepared I'm treated as a 4th level Wizard. Furthermore, if I look at the Wizard rules for what spells I can learn upon leveling into Wizard 4, it explains I can add to my spellbook two wizard spells and that "these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table." So when I hit Wizard level 4 I cannot learn any 3rd level spells because I do not have any Wizard spell slots of that level.

However, the "as shown on the Wizard table" caveat is missing from the description of adding new spells given in the "Your Spellbook" section of the Wizard clas and of preparing spells given in the "Preparing and Casting Spells" section of the Wizard class. Both of those sections simply reference "a level for which you have spell slots." So unless I'm missing something, it appears that by RAW this character could find a Fireball spell in another Wizard's spellbook and add this to his own spellbook and then prepare this spell (since when multiclassing as described I have 2 level 3 spell slots).

Is this the designer's intent? Or, do you think I've simply found a typo (the "as shown on the Wizard table" caveat really should be included in the other places I mention)? Alternatively, maybe this isn't RAI or RAW and I'm overlooking some relevant portion of the PHB.

My own thoughts are that I'm not sure if I'd want a Wizard 1/Cleric 19 abusing this reading to take any spells from either class. But I wouldn't mind an Eldritch Knight 6/Wizard 3 who wanted add a level 3 wizard spell to his spellbook.

(Sorry if this has been debated/answered before. I'm a pretty regular lurker, and I don't think I've seen it discussed.)

2Chlorobutanal

Sep 17, 2014 7:00:13

I believe the Multiclassing rules specifically address spell preparation for each individual class, effectively stopping the fireball tactic.

The umbrella rule is that you may only know and prepare spells that you could know or prepare as a member of one specific class (Wizard, for example).

I believe that the rules about "if you have spell slots of that level" are applied in the context of a single class Wizard, as multiclassing is technically an optional rule.

Because of this, I would take the multiclassing rules as stronger than anything that would appear to contradict them in the class descriptions when applied to multiclassing.

"You may copy a spell if it's of a level for which you have spell slots" would translate to "you may copy a spell if it's of a level for which a Wizard of your Wizard level would have spell slots."

The intention is apparently not to violate these rules, as the multiclass spell preparation example states that a multiclass Wizard 3 can only have up to 2 second-level spells in his or her book.

Fizzlewick

Sep 17, 2014 7:01:15

Oh, I think I see what you mean. I had read that section before, and I thought I was following those rules. However, I take it that since you are preparing the spells as if you were a singleclass 4th level Wizard you wouldn't have any level 3 spell slots. Thanks!

ASilva91084

Sep 17, 2014 8:06:12

I take it to mean that each of your single classes can prepare their own spells, but your spell SLOTS are combined based on your overall level.

rmn498

Sep 17, 2014 19:42:00

Consider this. Take the same Cleric 1/Wizard 4 that was mentioned before. We know that the character has two 3rd level spell slots per the Multiclass Spellcaster table. According to the Wizard's Spellbook class feature,

When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.

2Chlorobutanal

Sep 17, 2014 21:17:18

I would apply the same multiclassing rules to both daily spell preparation and scribing in a spellbook - the language is pretty similar, and I consider scribing into a spellbook to fall under category of "known spells."

As far as literal reading goes, I would again stress that multiclass rules are optional and therefore take precedent over the class-specific rules when a conflict occurs.

If chapter 3 says that a Wizard can scribe a spell into his or her book (because of multiclass spell slots) but chapter 6 says otherwise (because casters should determine spells known and prepared as a single class character), the chapter 6 rule would prevail in my mind.

Valdark

Sep 17, 2014 23:17:19

"Preparing and casting spells
second paragraph
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum 1). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

Page 164
"Spell slots
You determine your spell slots by adding together all your levels in bard, cleric, druid, etc etc. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
If you have more than one spell casting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare."

page 114
"Your spellbook
The spells that you add to your spellbook as you gain levels reflect.... You might find other spells during your adventures.

Copying a Spell into the Book
When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
.....
Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells."

E-Tallitnics

Sep 18, 2014 0:19:32

Valdark wrote: