Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shivafang Aug 06, 2014 8:01:12	Am I missing something, or can you cast Arcane spells in armour if you are proficient with it without penalty?   Page 79 of the Basic Rules apply, but I'm just checking that I didn't miss something tucked away somewhere else.   If this is correct, a lot of Wizards I know will want to roll Mountain Dwarves.
#2 mellored Aug 06, 2014 8:04:15	You can cast in armor if you are proficent.
#3 kanageddaamen Aug 06, 2014 8:10:17	Unless I am missing the same thing, then yes you can. Mountain dwarves wizards can be an interesting option, but you sacrifice an Int boost and the Mage Armor spell gives you 13+dex mod AC anyway, so the armor proficiency becomes less important the higher your level.  A 1st level High Elf with a 16 int and a 16 dex and Mage Armor will have the equivalent AC of a dwarf with a 14 dex wearing Scalemale or a Breast Plate
#4 shivafang Aug 06, 2014 8:46:06	You sacrifice a spell slot to have Mage Armour up, unless the DM and the party are ameniable to you casting it and then sitting around for an hour for Arcane Recovery to kick in before you do anything. The prepared spell is offset by the lower int, the High Elf and the Dwarf effectively prepare the same number spells minus Mage Armour.  Also, you may have to cast Mage Armour more than once per day.  And it can be dispelled.   The Dwarf also has a higher con (thus, more HP and a better short rest recovery) and the +2 strength and warhammer proficiencies leads to some interesting situations where the dwarf may be able position himself to get opportunity attacks.  I see the build using Shocking Grasp as his main cantrip.   Was going to play a human wizard 'abjurer' (if it's avaialble) with Mage Armour and Shield, but the mountain dwarf is looking tempting.
#5 mellored Aug 06, 2014 9:02:19	+1 Int isn't nothing.  Stat's cap at 20, but that's still leaves you behind for most levels.  That's assuming you didn't take any feats which slows you down even more.   And elves can pick up light armor with a feat, and keep their higher initive and Dex save.     That said, mountain dwarf are generally still the best wizard (out of the 4 basic races at least).  But the there are trade-offs.
#6 kanageddaamen Aug 06, 2014 9:08:06	Well, that's why I say it becomes less important on higher levels, when burning a level 1 spell slot in the morning is not a big deal.  The elf will also have a higer dex save (the most common save) and an extra cantrip and perception for free.   Humans will have a free feat (if the DM allows feats), higher int, bonus skill, and flexibilty to focus on con or dex   Dwarves will get the weapons and armor, and more HP and make for an interesting melee based wizard
#7 Shiroiken Aug 06, 2014 9:44:42	This is why I think they did a great job with the basic races and classes. Each of the races has something to bring to make the class a good option, even if it's non-traditional (such as dwarven wizards).
#8 Ahglock Aug 06, 2014 11:09:53	Magic items have an effect on this as well.  Bracers of armor were fairly common in earlier editions.  Yeah medium armor is sweet, but there easily can be options outside mage armor or physical armor to get a decent AC.  Yeah its a nice low level survival boost, but I'm not sure it makes the mountain dwarf better overall.  I'll wait for the rest of the game before deciding.
#9 mellored Aug 06, 2014 11:15:33	Ahglock wrote:
#10 Sherman Aug 06, 2014 11:22:25	Multi-classing is going to be a lot more interesting for this reason too. It will still be a huge tradeoff. I don't see everyone making choices like this just to get a little more AC though, a well run wizard is rarely getting attacked anyway, I find hit points way more important for all those things that just catch the whole party.
#11 Ahglock Aug 06, 2014 11:24:26	mellored wrote:
#12 shivafang Aug 06, 2014 11:38:42	mellored wrote:
#13 mellored Aug 06, 2014 11:42:35	Ahglock wrote:
#14 shivafang Aug 06, 2014 11:55:47	I had a feeling the bracers would be the same as mage armour for the same reason mage armour dosn't stack with monk's unarmoured defense - but I wasn't certain.  That at least negates the need to cast it daily on the elf breakdown.   If you are going to list -1 initiative and -1 dex saves as separate then you also need to add +1 Con saves.  Personally, I think Con saves are more important than Dex save because they are much nastier even if less frequent.   Ahglok mentioned there was already a thread along these lines that I missed, and apparently there's an easy feat to take that gives heavy armour proficiency and DR based on con.  Maybe elves have easy access to another feat that's just as much win, but Mountain Dwarves seem pretty tanky no mater what class they play - even Wizard.
#15 mellored Aug 06, 2014 12:00:38	shivafang wrote:
#16 kanageddaamen Aug 06, 2014 12:05:08	Armored wizards also run into issues during night time combat where there is just not enough time to don armor.  The relevancy of that depends entirely on the DM though.
(Reply to #16) shivafang	kanageddaamen wrote:
#18 kanageddaamen Aug 06, 2014 13:02:25	shivafang wrote:
#19 Polaris Aug 06, 2014 14:32:45	kanageddaamen wrote:
#20 Polaris Aug 06, 2014 14:35:59	mellored wrote:
#21 kanageddaamen Aug 06, 2014 15:14:40	Polaris wrote:
#22 Polaris Aug 06, 2014 15:37:51	kanageddaamen wrote:
#23 Grazel Aug 06, 2014 17:11:43	Also at higher levels if you're really worried about being armored with Mage Armor you can take it as one of your "at-will" spells which frees up the slot (or use others and the slot used up doesn't sting as much). There's a reason they only have 4 slots, because they can make a few spells "at-will" using no slots, and can recover slots, and power up spells to higher slots if they want. There will always be trade-offs for any configuration, otherwise you end up with serious balance issues and the 3.5 druid juggernaut or 1e 20th level wizard god-killer all over again.
#24 Polaris Aug 06, 2014 17:38:04	Grazel wrote:
(Reply to #24) 2Chlorobutanal	Polaris wrote:
(Reply to #21) ivstin	kanageddaamen wrote:
#27 Grazel Aug 06, 2014 21:53:04	ivstin wrote:
#28 mellored Aug 07, 2014 7:48:51	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#29 kanageddaamen Aug 07, 2014 7:57:42	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #21) shivafang	kanageddaamen wrote:
#31 mellored Aug 07, 2014 8:13:27	kanageddaamen wrote:
#32 kanageddaamen Aug 07, 2014 8:22:13	shivafang wrote:
#33 mellored Aug 07, 2014 8:52:11	And just an FYI, gnomes get +2 int, +1 dex, a bonus cantrip (minor illusion).  And advantage on magic saves.   Pretty much upsuring high elves.
#34 Dyndrilliac Aug 07, 2014 17:01:22	It's also worth mentioning that, at least in LMoP, the Staff of Defense can be taken off Glasstaff fairly early on (second episode, roughly level 2) which will provide most Wizards regardless of race all of the Mage Armor castings they will ever need. Mage Armor costs 1 charge using the staff, and the staff has 10 charges and recovers a minimum of 5 per day at dawn (1d6+4). The staff also provides a persistent +1 to AC. So once it is acquired, the Mountain Dwarf's armor proficiency is much less valuable than a high Dex score. The shield spell can also have a bg impact. Also worth considering is the value of magical robes. I know I woud much rather have robes that give me enhancements to my spellcasting as opposed to some heavy metal armor.   Just as an example, you can roll a standard level 2 High Elf wizard that starts with 16 Dex and 16 Int, gains the staff of defense, and from then on he has 17 AC for just "walking around" (Mage Armor, Dex, and the +1 bonus from the staff). Then once danger actually presents itself, he simply uses another 2 charges from the staff to cast Shield which will grant him 22 AC for a whole round without expending any spell slots. The Dwarf can do the same thing except he has low Dex and wasted armor proficiency (and he will need to use 2.5 ability increases to max Int whereas the Elf can choose a feat as well as max Int).
(Reply to #31) 2Chlorobutanal	mellored wrote: