Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Silverblade_The_Enchanter Feb 13, 2009 12:25:12	Posted this in the "Manual of the planes" area too: The rules for Spelljammers (in 4th ed Manual of the Plane) state that as the crew gets killed the ship eventually slows and crashes...yet completely ignores the fact it requires a helmsman to POWER it...you can't have it both ways! Either the helmsan provides the motive power, OR the crew, not both. Crew should be for ship weapons, day to day operations and perhaps manouverability, that is all. Thus, to stop a Spellajmmer you need to destroy the vessel or kill the helmsman. My 2 cents
#2 vebrandsson Feb 14, 2009 0:10:01	Posted this in the "Manual of the planes" area too: The rules for Spelljammers (in 4th ed Manual of the Plane) state that as the crew gets killed the ship eventually slows and crashes...yet completely ignores the fact it requires a helmsman to POWER it...you can't have it both ways! Either the helmsan provides the motive power, OR the crew, not both. Crew should be for ship weapons, day to day operations and perhaps manouverability, that is all. Thus, to stop a Spellajmmer you need to destroy the vessel or kill the helmsman. My 2 cents The helmsman drives (or steers if you would prefer that word) it, the crew powers it, and if you haven't noticed no ship/vehicle in 4e has any weapons at all, they are all merely transport.
#3 Silverblade_The_Enchanter Feb 14, 2009 10:35:48	From manual of the planes, on page 159 the "pilot" must sit at the helm it says A Spelljammer it requires a crew of 5, the ships speed is reduced for each crew man who is missing, at fly speed 0 the spelljammer is unable to travel and flies out of control When out of control, it moves forward at half speed, and has a very high chance (3/4) of descending each round, and after 10 rounds it descends VERY fast, if it descends more than 20 squares it's destroyed The Spelljammer Helm is the navigation forcus for the Plane Shift ritual. BUT, on page20 it says a spelljammer's hull is suspended in the air by a powerful spelljamming helm see the problem? How can it fall from the sky, if the Helm is keeping it up in the air, hm? And those of us who love the Spelljammer setting, I'm pretty sure, want the return of our pirates in space, boarding actions and ballistae, me hearties, aaaar! and double aaaar! ;) For which we need ship weapons, RAMMING SPEED!! and the like
#4 vebrandsson Feb 14, 2009 10:56:41	Pilot sits in helm controling the ship. Helm is converting energy from entire crew to power ship. Seems simple enough. Fits every part of the arguement. I don't see the issue. And though I love the old spelljammer, this is nothing like that, it is totally different. WotC probably will not be doing ship's weapons and ramming and things of that nature, if they were we'd have seen something suggesting its existance in the 4e rules by now, but they didn't even present siege weapon damage in the core rules so I don't see it happening. I'm working on a houserule system but having probably the same issues that WotC ran into before they chucked the idea in the bin.
#5 lady_rolindin Feb 14, 2009 20:23:23	The only way I see for the ship not crashinf into something is this way: If the ship is inteligent and can control the helm with out the poilt. If the spelljammer helm has something like or above an ultimate helm and made out of the same intelligent wood or other. An helm that has magic supllied to it by an magic item. The magic item that I have used for this are mythallars: surounded by a housing in the poilting house, smaller than a city would use, but big enough to supply magic to the helm allways. This way an intelligent ship could have access to magic and could control it's own travel with out a crew if nesasary. The ship might look for a new crew, after the old crew is killed. THat is the only wat I see a ship not crashing, with dead crew members.
#6 Silverblade_The_Enchanter Feb 15, 2009 13:22:37	note, crew and helsman, are different, for this issue
#7 vebrandsson Feb 16, 2009 9:25:09	note, crew and helsman, are different, for this issue I am aware of that, it doesn't make my arguement less valid.