Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mulhull Jan 25, 2009 20:16:36	I'm not sure I do. At first, I had thought that the spheres were made of a transparent material (as you are able to see stars, which I thought were in other spheres) and that the Phlogiston was also transparent. I think I may like it better this way. How much Phlogiston is between spheres, are there light-years of it? Some of it is cool though, that some stars are torches carried by giants (hmm, a planet or star sized giant traveling through the Phlogiston between spheres (of course I mean my phlogiston, that is transparent.) And huge dragons, etc. Do you prefer one prime material plane or many silders-like alternates? I'd prefer two, the prime material plane and the alternate prime material (that some books reference, like the description of the spell-weavers) plane, which is very alienlike and exotic, not subtle stuff like sliders alternate worlds, vastly different. Since there is only one set of outer planes, just imagine how many worshippers gods on those planes would have? They have a worshipper and many other versions of that worshipper. But then, their limit of 10 avatars at a time wouldn't be enough.
#2 dulsi Jan 26, 2009 9:53:08	At first, I had thought that the spheres were made of a transparent material (as you are able to see stars, which I thought were in other spheres) and that the Phlogiston was also transparent. I think I may like it better this way. How much Phlogiston is between spheres, are there light-years of it? Interesting idea. I'd never thought of it that way. I wonder if something like this could be used for mystaraspace. We had some discussion of the size of crystal spheres and such on the piazza. Seems some people (me included) thought the spheres are smaller on the outside and looked the same. It was discovered that the outside is not all the same and also much bigger than the planet size that was suggested. Wasn't any discussion about distances between spheres in the phlogiston. I'm not sure anyone has really thought about it but distance is kinda meaningless. All that matter is the time it takes to travel between spheres at spelljamming speeds.
#3 yakman Jan 29, 2009 9:27:02	i don't care much for the cosmology. i particularly do not like the descriptions of the interiors of the Crystal Spheres, nor the lack of explanation for their existence. I understand why they were done--to facilitate inter-sphere travel without having ships that could travel ridiculously fast--but I'm not sure if it was carried out in the best manner. I also wondered what would happen if two spheres were to knock into each other in the phlogiston.... also, i don't particularly understand the relationship of multiple stars within a single crystal sphere. do they orbit each other? are they independent? do stars move within the sphere? there are other, worse things about spelljammer to complain about, however. like, how come there are 3 BILLION illithids in the Astromundi Cluster, and other things still alive there. Since no change was made to illithid ecology in the Boxed Set, illithids still have to eat brains in order to survive--yet there are only about 3x more other sentients in the whole cluster. reasonably, they should all be illithid food by now, or there should be substantially fewer illithids. or the fact that a single illithid is a very powerful creature, and they should have wiped the floor with the Sun Mages through sheer numbers a long time ago...
#4 Mulhull Jan 29, 2009 19:56:45	I also wondered what would happen if two spheres were to knock into each other in the phlogiston.... There's something about this in the spelljammer boxed set, the phlogiston thickens up when they get close to each other, repelling them. also, i don't particularly understand the relationship of multiple stars within a single crystal sphere. do they orbit each other? are they independent? do stars move within the sphere? It says in the boxed set they are all inside the sphere. But if they were stars with gravity, the sphere would need to be huge. I was thinking of spheres with a thousand light-year diameter.
#5 dulsi Jan 30, 2009 8:35:46	i particularly do not like the descriptions of the interiors of the Crystal Spheres, nor the lack of explanation for their existence. Why does it matter? According to 3E FRCG, Lord Ao created the crystal sphere that holds the world of Abeir-Toril. Does that make the idea better now? also, i don't particularly understand the relationship of multiple stars within a single crystal sphere. do they orbit each other? are they independent? do stars move within the sphere? Depends on the sphere. The *space books explain how the stars work in those settings. there are other, worse things about spelljammer to complain about, however. like, how come there are 3 BILLION illithids in the Astromundi Cluster, and other things still alive there. I still haven't read the Astromundi Cluster yet. I have heard some complaints about it on the Piazza. You would definitely need to descrease the number of illithids or change their ecology.
#6 lord_karsus Jan 30, 2009 21:18:14	-I don't necessarily like the idea of Crystal Spheres as "giant bubbles" floating in phlogiston, but I do like the idea of all of the different D&D settings being set apart as their own solar systems, on a massive, all encompassing Prime Material Plane.
#7 yakman Jan 31, 2009 10:36:52	-I don't necessarily like the idea of Crystal Spheres as "giant bubbles" floating in phlogiston, but I do like the idea of all of the different D&D settings being set apart as their own solar systems, on a massive, all encompassing Prime Material Plane. In general it's pretty good. THe kinda weird thing though is that it sort of stops the PM from being the PM--the vast majority of "existence" is phlogiston, not actual "stuff" that incorporates all four elements.
#8 lord_karsus Feb 02, 2009 10:43:52	-It's more of an ascetic thing, really. I just don't like the giant balls floating around part. I'd get rid of them, as in Crystal Spheres being physical things, as opposed to the name of a solar system. Other than that, though, I don't mind. Phlogiston can be the technical term for what "space" is "made out of", and it all works out.
#9 havard Feb 02, 2009 15:18:59	-It's more of an ascetic thing, really. I just don't like the giant balls floating around part. I'd get rid of them, as in Crystal Spheres being physical things, as opposed to the name of a solar system. Other than that, though, I don't mind. Phlogiston can be the technical term for what "space" is "made out of", and it all works out. IMC it is possible to travel through Real Space, but the Phlogiston is a kind of Hyperspace that can only be accessed at the edge of Solar Systems. Havard
#10 elondir Feb 02, 2009 15:53:47	I'm a bit iffy on the SJ cosmology. I kind of like crystal spheres and the phlogiston, but I lean more towards infinite space. I understand that the spheres were used to explain why Oerthians and Faerunians don't notice the changes in the constellations when Krynn's night sky changes. I would prefer if they made phlogiston a fantastic natural feature (like flammable nebulae that interfere with magical transport and stuff, or something) and removed crystal spheres except for ones like Herdspace where it's just so awesomely cool you've just got to keep it.
#11 lord_karsus Feb 03, 2009 9:04:52	IMC it is possible to travel through Real Space, but the Phlogiston is a kind of Hyperspace that can only be accessed at the edge of Solar Systems. Havard -I probably wouldn't even go that far, and would just handwave stuff like extreme travel time and/or distance if I used Spelljamming in my games (I do, but in a much more limited form, resembling airships more than anything). That's a good way of keeping phlogiston more or less as it is now, though. If it ever comes up, maybe I'll do something like that.
#12 addle-cove-anarchist Feb 04, 2009 15:16:57	I never liked crystal spheres as material things also, especially how the stars were explained
#13 vebrandsson Feb 04, 2009 18:16:44	The Cyrstal Spheres were there to preform a function. It defines where a lot of things end. The phlogiston is cut off from the other planes for a reason, where it not for the defining line that the crystal sphere provides low leveled characters could dimension walk from one system to another rendering spelljamming vessels useless. A lot of people have trouble with spelljammer cosmology because you have to throw all science of size, space, and gravity out the window, in spelljammer a larger star can with out issue orbit around a smaller star and it works just fine. In spelljammer the most absurd and fantastic things are possible, from flat worlds to really strange things like cubic worlds or tetrahedron worlds or what ever you want. And if you really want to see some odd things go grab your Concordance of Arcane space and flip to page 75 under Planetary Movement. With everything that is potientially possible in Spelljammer (which is why its such a wonderful setting) why complain about the one thing (crystal spheres) that is there to make the system work mechanically?
#14 Xorial Mar 14, 2009 22:34:27	In Hackjammer, the Hackmaster RPG version, they use it as hyperspace. You travel to the are that wilspace were the shell should be, then open a portal to the Flow. The Crystal Sphere is only truly visible in the Flow. If you didnt enter the Flow at the sphere, you would travel thru wildspace for a LOOOOOOOONG time before you reached another solar system.
#15 lord_karsus Mar 14, 2009 23:05:43	With everything that is potientially possible in Spelljammer (which is why its such a wonderful setting) why complain about the one thing (crystal spheres) that is there to make the system work mechanically? -Because I don't like it. That's the only reason why people complain about things.
#16 yakman Apr 09, 2009 8:27:30	sometimes they want to get attention.
#17 thshdw Apr 09, 2009 14:07:07	Personally, I love Spelljammer's cosmology on principle because it is so different from ours. Creating a brand new set of physics is probably quite a daunting task, after all. The idea of the crystal spheres seems to be necessary, and I'm ok with suspending disbelief for that purpose.
#18 Sword_of_Spirit May 02, 2009 2:19:54	I love it. Sure, it's imperfect and a bit wonky, but it's important to realize that Spelljammer is a campaign setting as much as it is a portal to connect other campaign settings. It has its own flavor and feel, which includes crystal spheres, ships of undead floating through the Phlogiston, and the Imperial Elven Armada as the univited policemen of arcane space. Just like how things work completely different in the Dragonlance setting than they do in the Forgotten Realms, things work different than either of them once you get off-planet. I particularly like the "fantasy space" aspect--that whole little discussion in the intro to the books that basically says "Everything you know about space is wrong" and then goes on to explain how and why they totally tossed out real world physics. It's a matter of taste, definitely, but once I'm standing on deck of a ship soaring through open space and fighting space-sharks, I *want* something like crystal spheres and Phlogiston to separate worlds, instead of just vast expanses of the void.
#19 colman May 03, 2009 11:32:35	I love it as well, precisely because it adds a fantasy element that saves it from being a straight SF setting.