Nope. I've never actually played any Spelljammer, so I'm completely unqualified to comment. The general statement that's been made is that Eberron is in an entirely separate cosmology; however, it's been suggested that if you want to cross settings, you could find some way to pass through the Plane of Shadows. So if you want to say spelljamming is possible, you certainly could. The idea of people finding a crashed spelljammer in Xen'drik, rebuilding it and taking a crazy expedition seems cool. But I wouldn't want to overly pollute the setting with characters and beings from other settings, simply because of the differences in power level, the role certain outsiders have in the setting, and the like.
-KWB
Though I think, certain elements, especially the Spelljammer ships in comparison to say Elemental Galleons in Eberron, it would really sync, no?
Anything about this I would love to hear about if it's posted on here.
I do not think that its diverse cosmology would be a good excuse for that reasoning either (not that someone HAS stated that, just that they might), because the Realms' Cosmology is quite a bit different from Greyhawk's as well.
And somehow would should work the number 13 into the reasoning of where we put it since that is a huge theme in Eberron.
imo, shardspace should be somewhat separate simply because it is supposedly entirely isolated from other campaign settings. this would necessitate that it not be easy to get to and from, imo.
That is debatable. But not worth arguing about. So, assuming we place Shardspace space were alchemyprime suggests, what do we do next? There should be other planets in Shardspace...
That is debatable. But not worth arguing about. So, assuming we place Shardspace space were alchemyprime suggests, what do we do next? There should be other planets in Shardspace...
The first step would be to scour the Eberron line for any references to planets. There may not be any; with 12 moons & a ring, the planet might have so much light pollution it may not be possible to view the rest of the planets ;)
The next step would be to decide what type of spacefairing society should be present. It should definately have strong influences from Eberron.
well, obviously there's plenty of asteroid belts... and clearly there will be many (syberis, iirc) shards available to the spelljamming community =D
I'd suggest making Dragonshards an intrigel part of spelljammer helm construction, at least in Shardspace
The first step would be to scour the Eberron line for any references to planets. There may not be any; with 12 moons & a ring, the planet might have so much light pollution it may not be possible to view the rest of the planets ;)
What about making Shardspace a geocentric system like Greyspace, with the moons (and sun) as planets?
Wyvern
What about making Shardspace a geocentric system like Greyspace, with the moons (and sun) as planets?
Wyvern
That could work, although I advise a bit against it. Namely, geocentric spheres are generally disliked, especially in regards to standard game worlds (greyhawk fans, in general, *hate* the idea of Greyspace being geocentric).
It might be benefitial for someone to head over to the Eberron board to ask if there are any planets named anywhere in Eberron products. They could probably provide an answer quicker than trying to scour products
We figured on making it a setting of it's own, separate from general inter-sphere traffic. For storyline, we figured the crystal sphere sealed up when the (was it the gatekeepers? i cant remember offhand at the moment) completed the magics that bound Xoriat, and no one has found a way to get in or out since then.
We decided that the ring of dragonshards were only visible as a ring from the surface. It was actually a full sphere, but from the surface you could only see a band of the shards at an angle due to the nature of the shards and sun kinda like a rainbow. Because of the sphere of shards moving at high velocity, any ships passing through had to be either a: extremely well protected, b: extremely well piloted, or c: both and even then would take at least marginal damage to rigging/hull/any exposed crew members. So spelljammers making landfall on Eberron would be possible, but not a very common thing (ie to keep from completely changing the flavor of the base Eberron campaign). The high velocity of the shards also makes it very hard to simply farm shards to get stinkin' rich.
We built the system with 13 planets to keep with that theme.
One was once a goblinoid-dominated world, but was the subject of EIN-enforced genocide and now serves as the EIN's base in the sphere.
The EIN btw barely consider Eberron elves to be elven, only a step above the other races, but not quite elven enough for them. Necromantic (a misnomer, but that's how it would look to them) elves? desert elves? They're lucky the shard sphere keeps the EIN from making any sort of major sortie against the planet.
The largest non-primary world in the sphere is a massive void world that has no solid surface that can be seen from orbit. It looks like a massive dark storm of gasses and liquids (look at Jupiter through a purple lens). The only ships to ever come out of that mass are crewed by abominations like neogi and mindflayers, and they aren't giving away any secrets related to the world's nature or letting any visitors survive
that's really all i can remember at the moment, will post more if i can ever find the rest and there's interest.
(long story short: always been vaguely interested in Spelljammer, researched about it recently for a campaign I'm starting, instantly fell in love. I love space fantasy and I love crossovers, genre mashing, and kitchen sinks.. :D)
Don't you people think that there might be an equivalence between the 12 moons and the 12 planes of Eberron?
ok, the planes are supposed to be 13, but Dal Quor is always remote. :D (and to each moon is connected a dragonmark. what about the mark of death? did the moon disappear together with the mark?)
If Shardspace (i like the name) planes and moons are the same thing, then maybe, assuming that Syberis makes approaching to Eberron extremely difficult, the best way of getting to Eberron would be to land on a moon and go to Eberron via Plane Shift or Portal.
If not, and then planes and moon might be different things...
Maybe Eberron has not only 12 moons (or 13 plus a "moon of death"), but also 13 planets (= planes) which instead of orbiting the sun they all orbit Eberron.
Or maybe the planes have nothing to do with this and we could make up our planets.
As for collecting Syberis shards in orbit, i think it would be an incredibly dangerous and well-paid job (without being destructive to the economy).
Don't you people think that there might be an equivalence between the 12 moons and the 12 planes of Eberron?
ok, the planes are supposed to be 13, but Dal Quor is always remote. :D (and to each moon is connected a dragonmark. what about the mark of death? did the moon disappear together with the mark?)
Perhaps the 13th moon is similar to the black moon Nuitari in Dragonlance, which was only visible to evil wizards. If it's the moon of death, maybe it can only be seen by the undead.
I wouldn't make the moons and planes the same thing, but the planes could each be connected to one of the moons astrally or ethereally. Mage: the Ascension used a similar idea with its nine spheres and the planets of the Solar System.
Just how much information does the campaign book give on Eberron's moons, anyway? Are they individually named and described?
Wyvern
Now, as far as suggestions for setting up the sphere:
1. I'd stick with the idea of the moons being connected to the various planes. Maybe something like a vision of what Eberron would be like were said plane dominant. Such as: moon linked to plane of fire would have many volcanoes, a high fire genasi population, etc. Same with moon linked to evil plane: oppessive petty fiefs ala Ravenloft, many telflings, etc.
2. Start with the 12-13 moons, get those done first. Make each one unique, but give each a reason to have a SJ presence, and make them all approachable by PCs (aka I'd shy away from illithid world-empires that eat PCs on sight).
3. Once those are done, work on the rest of the solar system. It might be a good idea to keep the number of worlds low, to get the detail high on each world.
Anyways, just some ideas.
ok, the planes are supposed to be 13, but Dal Quor is always remote. :D (and to each moon is connected a dragonmark. what about the mark of death? did the moon disappear together with the mark?)
Yes. See the Eberron Campaign Setting, page 130:
"A thirteenth mark and moon once existed. It was a dark mark devoted to abilities concerned with death and the undead."
It makes sense that there would be 13 planets (other than Eberron and Eberron's sun) in Eberron's system, and that their conjunctions would be related to the conjunctions of Eberron's various planes. Each planet would be at least one dragon, as Eberron itself is three dragons (Khyber, Eberron, and Siberys). A liveworld (built on living plant matter with no rocky base) would be a dragon similar to Eberron; a dead world (just rock and stone, no surface life) would be a dragon similar to Khyber; a shattered world (a cluster world of asteroids joined by a common atmosphere, or an asteroid belt) would be similar to Siberys. I kind of like the idea that only Eberron has all three parts.
You could, in fact, argue that the planes in Eberron's cosmology are the 13 planets in its solar system, and that "planar travel" in Eberron is really just travel through the crystal sphere.
I'm thinking that Eberron revolves around its primary, a massive fire world, and that it's the closest world to its primary. Thus, the other 13 planets revolve around both Eberron and its primary, just as the planes are thought to revolve around Eberron. This also distinguishes the sun from those planets that are associated with the various planes.
I don't think the world needs to be isolated or sealed off from the other crystal spheres. The campaign setting isn't less isolationist than Krynn, and Krynnspace is very much a part of the interstellar community. Sealing the world off would just make it less usable and less fun.
I'm thinking that Eberron revolves around its primary, a massive fire world, and that it's the closest world to its primary. Thus, the other 13 planets revolve around both Eberron and its primary, just as the planes are thought to revolve around Eberron. This also distinguishes the sun from those planets that are associated with the various planes.
I don't think the world needs to be isolated or sealed off from the other crystal spheres. The campaign setting isn't less isolationist than Krynn, and Krynnspace is very much a part of the interstellar community. Sealing the world off would just make it less usable and less fun.
I like this idea. Maybe Eberron and its Sun orbit around a common center of mass like a double planet?
So, Eberron would have 12/13 moons and be the first of 13 planets? (or would there be other 13 planets, for a total of 14? but i prefer Eberron to be one of the 13: There are 13 moons, one of them is special, and there are 13 planets, one of them is special.)
Other planets could be their own dragons, just like Eberron is, or they could be undragoned worlds (hey, look, a new word!).
Hypothesis: undragoned worlds do not have native intelligent life, and any inhabitant either spelljammed there or teleported in one way or another at some point in history.
Or, they could have a dragon or two.
Maybe those dragons are the spawn of Syberis, Eberron and Khyber?
Maybe the Sun is, like, the first son of Syberis. Or IS Syberis. After all, Syberis is "the sky", right?
My main worry is that there is no direct correspondence between moons and planes.
Maybe there is no correspondence, in fact, and each moon is connected to a different plane in a different time? the combination of a complex moon system and a complex plane system could make for a really weird cosmic calendar.
Probably planes become are coterminous and remote on the moons as well, in different times with respect to Eberron.
Planets too? Or maybe not and only Eberron and its moons have a special relationship with the planes?
Are we gonna work on a collective write-up of Shardspace? This sounds like fun. :D
(or would there be other 13 planets, for a total of 14? but i prefer Eberron to be one of the 13: There are 13 moons, one of them is special, and there are 13 planets, one of them is special.)
No, it's one of 14. Just like it's one of 14 planes. There are 13 outer planes in the Eberron cosmology, plus Eberron. There are 13 moons, plus Eberron. There are therefore 13 planets in its solar system, plus Eberron. One of the other 13 can still be special.
No, it's one of 14. Just like it's one of 14 planes. There are 13 outer planes in the Eberron cosmology, plus Eberron. There are 13 moons, plus Eberron. There are therefore 13 planets in its solar system, plus Eberron. One of the other 13 can still be special.
Good call.
Here are the moons, their associated month, and dragonmark.
Zarantyr = January (Mark of Storm)
Olarune = February (Mark of Sentinel)
Therendor = March (Mark of Healing)
Eyre = April (Mark of Making)
Dravago = May (Mark of Handling)
Nymm = June (Mark of Hospitality)
Lharvion = July (Mark of Detection)
Barrakas = August (Mark of Finding)
Rhann = September (Mark of Scribing)
Sypheros = October (Mark of Shadow)
Aryth = November (Mark of Passage)
Vult = December (Mark of Warding)
Each moon is noted as being at its perigee during its month (for example, Sypheros is closest to Eberron during the month of Syhperos), so we can suppose that all of those moons' orbits are quite eccentric.
Unfortunately, the book says nothing more. There is no description of the moon themselves.
The only thing we know is that the druids have a lot of astronomical observatories and that the moons are connected to the Draconic Prophecy.
Looks like quite a complex system.
But, first of all, what about the Syberis ring?
Is it dangerous? (probably yes) Is it unapproachable? (probably so much that one can't simply mine it for Syberis shards and crash Khorvaire's economy. I like to imagine "navigating the Syberis' ring" being a dangerous, reckless thing to do, of the kind that Spelljammer Han Solo might brag about when Planetlubber Luke Skywalker asks him if he's good.)
Either the ring makes landing and taking off from the whole planet dangerous, or it doesn't and it's just dangerous around the equator.
In the latter case, Eberron might be spelljamming aware. I mean, they have airships already. Maybe they're in their very first years but working hard and quick.
Maybe the countries are making their own races into space a la USA vs USSR during the cold war, and sending their first explorers to the moons.
Is it dangerous? (probably yes) Is it unapproachable? (probably so much that one can't simply mine it for Syberis shards and crash Khorvaire's economy. I like to imagine "navigating the Syberis' ring" being a dangerous, reckless thing to do, of the kind that Spelljammer Han Solo might brag about when Planetlubber Luke Skywalker asks him if he's good.)
Either the ring makes landing and taking off from the whole planet dangerous, or it doesn't and it's just dangerous around the equator.
In the latter case, Eberron might be spelljamming aware. I mean, they have airships already. Maybe they're in their very first years but working hard and quick.
Maybe the countries are making their own races into space a la USA vs USSR during the cold war, and sending their first explorers to the moons.
My vote is that it is more dangerous than most planets, and extremely dangerous around the equator. Once again I am only using the ECS because that is all I've got, but in it it clearly states that the ring is only over the equator. That does not mean that the ring cannot leave drifting detritus around the planet as a whole, but I do not think it would make it nigh impossible for navigation anywhere except along the equator. One more thing, Silverblade noted:
Well, in DUngeons and Dragons Online, there's an area in SPACE, a House Kundarak Vault floating over the planet ;) It looks very cool and we did say, in game that yup, should be SJ ships in it!
This would indicate to me that Eberron is Spelljamming aware. And there is a safe(ish) way to enter orbit.
I also agree that this would not make mining Syberis dragonshards any easier or House Kundarak would already be doing it.
There is no description of the moon themselves.
There's a description of the moons here. We know what color they are, how big they are, and how far they are from Eberron.
There's a description of the moons here. We know what color they are, how big they are, and how far they are from Eberron.
Wow! Well spotted! I'd say that we can start from those.
so uhh... nightdruid... don't suppose you feel like making these into a MotM project? =D
(speaking of which, what happened to MotM? and for that matter, i seem to recall you planning to introduce new spells over time also...)
[edit] actually, it seems like new content in general from everyone has sort of died off... has there been any thought about arranging contests like it seems happened before on BtM? [/edit]
A friend of mine and I put together a rough piece on this not too many months back, I'm trying to track down what we came up with but can't find it yet, but I do remember a few specifics.
Have you been able to find any more of your notes?
Also, assuming that after the moons we assign each of the planets a Dragon Mark, where would Eberron fit in the sequence? I think it should be somewhere toward the middle, but I am not sure where.
Also, assuming that after the moons we assign each of the planets a Dragon Mark, where would Eberron fit in the sequence? I think it should be somewhere toward the middle, but I am not sure where.
Well, my idea anyway is that only the moons would be associated with Marks, while the planets would be associated with the planes. If there are 14 planets, it doesn't make sense for them to be associated with the 13 marks.
Eberron is associated with the Material Plane.
Well, my idea anyway is that only the moons would be associated with Marks, while the planets would be associated with the planes. If there are 14 planets, it doesn't make sense for them to be associated with the 13 marks.
Eberron is associated with the Material Plane.
So, say that Eberron has a static orbit around the sun, and then each other planet has a different convoluted orbit around the sun that brings it closer to Eberron during the associated plane's coterminous phase? Sounds good.
Here is each plane listed by coterminous periods with Eberron:
Plane / Coterminous / Remote / Orbit
Syrania / 1 day / 1 day / 10 years
Mabar / 3 days / 5 days / 5 years
Lamannia / 7 days / 7 days / 1 year
Irian / 10 days / 10 days / 3 years
Fernia / 1 month / 1 month / 5 years
Risia / 1 month / 1 month / 5 years
Shavarath / 1 year / unknown / 36 years
Dolurrh / 1 year / 1 year / 100 years
Thelanis / 7 years / 14 years / 225 years
Daanvi / 100 years / 100 years / 400 years
Kythri / erratic / erratic / erratic
Dal Quor / never / always / off orbit
Xoriat / unknown / unknown / millennia
so uhh... nightdruid... don't suppose you feel like making these into a MotM project? =D
(speaking of which, what happened to MotM? and for that matter, i seem to recall you planning to introduce new spells over time also...)
LOL, I'm kinda buried under projects, so I put MotM on hold for a while until I could dig myself out. That and I got sucked into playing World of Warcrack for a while; addictive, if fruistraiting (and at times, boring) game :P
That and I got sucked into playing World of Warcrack for a while; addictive, if fruistraiting (and at times, boring) game :P
Resist the urge! It is evil, evil I tell you! Thought I might start playing again now that my little brother is going off to Boot Camp and loaning me his way-better computer for an indefinite amount of time. That means both my wife and I can play Warcrack together now (which is kinda difficult to do with only 1 PC).
So, say that Eberron has a static orbit around the sun, and then each other planet has a different convoluted orbit around the sun that brings it closer to Eberron during the associated plane's coterminous phase? Sounds good.
The planets/planes could also be orbiting around a common center of gravity between the Sun and Eberron.
A star system that's both geocentric and heliocentric.
After all, it's said that the planes orbit EBERRON, in the book. And no one says anything about the Sun, I think.
If in the beginning there were only the three dragons, and Khyber became the underdark (well, sorta) Eberron the surface, and Syberis the heavens, then probably the Sun IS Syberis (in the same way that Eberron (the world) is Eberron (the dragon) and Khyber is the underground.)
And that'd make the Ring of Syberis something like cooled-off pieces of the Sun. Maybe when Syberis took off at the creation of the world and reached the heavens he left behind him a trail of scales and that became the Ring.
Now, politics. What does the treaty of Thronehold say about celestial bodies? Because it might have had some say in the matter. Khorvaire is pretty well-organized, and if the countries and the guilds are spelljamming-aware, then surely there are laws and regulations about extraeberronian bodies. (hey, look, a new word!)
this would make the ring more renewable (iirc, the source of syberis shards for people on eberron is that they drop from the sky).
that being said, i dunno if i like syberis being the sun itself, but certainly a celestial body seems reasonable, and an asteroid ring around eberron (or possibly even an asteroid sphere, i suppose, though only part of it would be visible from eberron) would fit best imo.
that being said, i dunno if i like syberis being the sun itself, but certainly a celestial body seems reasonable, and an asteroid ring around eberron (or possibly even an asteroid sphere, i suppose, though only part of it would be visible from eberron) would fit best imo.
The ECS cleary states that Syberis is definitely a ring. And it is never described as being the same celestial body as the sun.
I kinda like the idea of both a geocentric and heliocentric system. But that would mean that the planets would have to be smaller than Eberron to be caught in its orbit.
I kinda like the idea of both a geocentric and heliocentric system. But that would mean that the planets would have to be smaller than Eberron to be caught in its orbit.
Maybe. Or maybe it just, y'know, happens. Magic, handwavium, vrooooom.
what? :D
The ECS cleary states that Syberis is definitely a ring. And it is never described as being the same celestial body as the sun.
I kinda like the idea of both a geocentric and heliocentric system. But that would mean that the planets would have to be smaller than Eberron to be caught in its orbit.
So in other words, those coming into Shardspace (when I was speculating on how to bring the pair together on my own, I was calling the sphere Shardspace myself so I think if anything we can agree on that much in calling the sphere Shardspace) to Eberron would perceive the primary world much like Saturn or Jupiter in our own solar system. That's a pretty nice image to contemplate actually.
Anyone still interested in this idea?
We've seen several constellations added to the Eberron setting (Magic of Eberron)
I'd be hip to continue working on this if all interest hasn't faded away?
now unfortunately, at this particular time the piazza forums appear to be down today... but hopefully will recover shortly. (just google piazza and spelljammer and you should find them quick enough)
now unfortunately, at this particular time the piazza forums appear to be down today... but hopefully will recover shortly. (just google piazza and spelljammer and you should find them quick enough)
You probably still have the old link. The Piazza just moved to their new (permanant) address at http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/index.php.
That specific thread can be found here: Shardspace - the Eberron Crystal Sphere.
Roger