just finished this up today. Basically, it's a mini-sphereguide (15 pages...5 pages longer than I expected!!!) to be my unofficial SJ/DS crossover. I'm posting this in 3 parts: the where (the sphere itself), the who (the Warden-Kings & other misc. details) and the what (ships & helms). Thanks for all the feedback, it certainly has been a fun project! :D
The Crimson Sphere
By Adam Miller (aka Night Druid)
Introduction
Far off the beaten track is the Crimson Sphere, home of Athas, the world of the Dark Sun. Although there are well-explored and documented rivers through the flow to this sphere, they remain unused. Traders and travelers alike have chosen to forget the route, for the sphere is said to be cursed. In over two thousand years, few have journeyed to the Crimson Sphere, and fewer still have returned.
This document details the sphere around the world of Athas. This is my interpretation of how such a sphere can exist, and how Athas has remained so isolated in the Spelljammer universe.
Contents
Sphere Overview
City-States of the Stars
History of the Crimson Sphere
Warden-Kings and their Subjects
Ships of the Crimson Sphere
Artifacts and Helms
Bibliography
Sphere Overview
The sphere of the Dark Sun is massive, or perhaps it seems massive. Between the outermost world and the spherewall is the Black Gulf, a cold, dark region that takes no less than two months to cross. The Black Gulf is haunted by unimaginable horrors; most ships that attempt to cross it are never heard from again. Those that survive speak of almost constant attacks, their ships torn and near ruin.
The spelljamming cultures of the Crimson Sphere are quite primitive. If anything, resources are scarcer than on Athas itself. The largest cities are ruled over by terrible sorcerer kings who construct armadas from the husks of gigantic insects. They battle over rare verdant asteroids and tiny caches of ever precious iron. Always in the shadows are the illithids, awaiting the time when the might of the sorcerer kings fail and they can sweep over the cities, expanding their rule.
The ships of the Crimson Sphere are small asteroid-hoppers powered by psionic helms or terrible lifejammers; true spelljammer helms are unheard of. Catapults and ballistae are rare devices, highly coveted but impossible to repair. Ships from other spheres, such as hammerships, are unknown. If one were found, it would be a one-of-a-kind, a relic to be fought over until it falls apart from lack of repairs, for none would know how to or have the materials to properly repair such a craft. Most ships cannot survive a landing on a large world, as their hulls are too fragile for such things and their helms too weak to escape the pull of large planets.
Sun
Size I Spherical fire body
The sun of the Crimson Sphere is a large, hot red fiery orb at the heart of the sphere. Ancient texts once described it as either a hot blue or a hot yellow sun, long ago. What manner of magic that darken the sun is unknown, but the illithids are extremely interested in it. If they can darken the sun more, they will no long be adversely affected by its light, and their power will increase.
For all the mystery surrounding the sun, very little is found there. It is a barren wasteland of fire. Neither cities of effreti, or azer, nor any intelligent creature that makes fire its home dwell upon the sun. Although the sun is quite barren, occasionally some creatures have been found, such as elmarin, lavaworms, and the occasional focoid.
Cinder
Size C Spherical earth body
Cinder is all that is left of an unnamed inner world that was consumed by the sun. It orbits barely an hour’s journey outside the sun’s corona. So close is it that Cinder is occasionally charred by solar flares.
The planet is tidally locked. On the far side of Cinder, facing away from the sun, is a patch of habitable land maybe 90 miles in diameter. This grassland gives way to thin mountain forests at the center. This is the domain of the city-state of Mahda. The ruler of this city-state is said to be an undead creature, his body charred and burned beyond recognition. He uses his subjects as cattle for his experiments.
Athas
Size E Spherical earth body, 2 moons
The world of the Dark Sun, Athas is a desert world. It is the primary world of the sphere, and is detailed extensively in the Dark Sun line of products from TSR.
Few ships visit Athas these days. Even ships from the Crimson Sphere rarely visit Athas, for the dangers of such a trip almost always outweigh any benefit. The moons of Guthay and Ral are slightly more inviting, but have thin atmospheres. A few slave villages can be found on Guthay, well-hidden in deep caves. The illithids are interested in establishing bases on the moons, but their efforts are always foiled by the sorcerer-kings.
Behind Guthay is the city-state of Sentinel. It orbits Guthay in a stable fashion that always keeps the city hidden from Athas. Sentinel is a disc-shaped city with strong walls and shelters to last a year-long siege. Rajaat built it as a last line of defense against any invasion of Athas from other worlds. The Warden-King of Sentinel is Dabi, the Shield of Rajaat. He was the most trusted of Rajaat’s Wardens, but was quickest to betray his master. Dabi attempted many short-cuts to become a full dragon, and was horribly deformed by the process.
The Sextant
Size A to B Asteroid belt
In the ancient texts, this thin asteroid belt was a whole world. It shattered long ago in some unrecorded disaster. Today the asteroids are found in six clusters that share roughly the same orbit. Most of the asteroids are barren rocks with thin atmospheres, unsuitable for habitation. A few, maybe one in every twenty, has enough air and water to support plant life. The rare verdant asteroids amount to the bread-basket of spelljamming cultures in the Crimson Sphere. These prizes are fiercely fought over by the city-states and raided for slaves by the illithids.
Shard Islands – The largest cluster is the Shard Islands. The asteroids are the domain of the city-state of Hopa. Nearby asteroids are farmed and fiercely protected by the Hopa navy.
Verdant Stones – The city-state of Nijhal is found at the heart of this, the most prosperous cluster. There are dozens of farmable asteroids, worked by slaves of Nijhal. The cluster is well-patrolled by Nijhal’s navy.
Cursed Cluster – This cluster is dotted with hundreds of abandoned villages. Ravishes by battles between the invaders and the Wardens, the Cursed Cluster has been stripped of all life.
Far Clutch – Most distant of the clusters from the major cities, the Far Clutch sees little trade. As such, it is a popular hiding place for escaped slaves. The illithids have begun to prowl the Far Clutch for new sources of slaves.
Salt Shoals – The ruins of an unnamed city-state are buried somewhere in this cluster. The Warden-King of the city defied Borys, who ordered the city destroyed and the land salted as a lesson to those that would defy his power.
Gray Reef – Found between the Shoal Islands and the Verdant Stones, the Gray Reef is a warzone. Ships from both city-states stalk each other. Free villages are becoming few and scattered as they fall one-by-one to one power or another.
K’ydon
Size C Spherical earth body
A dwarf of a world far beyond the Sextant, K’ydon has much in common with Athas. Both are dry, desert worlds with little life and scarce resources. K’ydon is a cold desert with long winters and short summers. Water can be found trapped in the permafrost tundra, but is difficult to tap.
K’ydon’s most remarkable feature is the city-state that shares the same name. It is ruled by the ruthless Warden-Queen Hu. The city is marked by a five-sided ziggurat, a solid stone fortress, and a market square. It is found on the equator in the shadow of four great hills.
Rajaat
Size F Spherical air body, 3 moons
The largest planet in the Crimson Sphere was named by the Wardens for their master. It is a dark, cold, ash-choked air world devoid of life. The interior is unexplored but probably hides ships lost during the Cleansing War as several battles were fought above Rajaat’s clouds.
The moons have been conquered by invaders from other spheres. Prime of these are the illithids, who rule from their throne-world of Th-ki-chu. Slaves toil away in mindless bliss in caverns under the illithid fortresses. The ruins of dozens of these fortresses dot the surface of Th-ki-chu, casualties of the Cleansing War. Such was the destruction that even after two millennia, the illithids are but a fraction of their numbers when they first invaded the sphere. Other moons include the remains of Hejin, a broken moon haunted by undead beholders, and At-ur, the obsidian moon.
Black Gulf
Just beyond Rajaat is the dreaded Black Gulf, the region that divides the worlds of the Crimson Sphere from the spherewall. The Black Gulf has swallowed many ships that have dared to venture into its inky depths. From the accounts of those that survived trips into this forsaken region give a terrifying account.
At first, light begins to dim all around the ship. After two days, the stars twinkle out. After the fifth, the sun is no longer visible. Light from candles and lanterns dim, as if oppressed by some unseen shadow. Always one feels as if he is being watched. That is when the attacks begin. At first, lone watchmen at attacked by unseen creatures. Then the attacks intensify. After the tenth day, the attacks come hourly. While light can drive the strange creatures away, they can summon darkness at will, snuffing out any light source. Some creatures are so strong they can rend metal and rip off and carry away whole sections of ships. After many days, if the ship and crew have survived to this point, they escape the Black Gulf.
Spherewall
The spherewall is believed to give the Crimson Sphere its name, as it is very dark red in color from the inside. It has a rough texture, as if like sand, and cold to the touch. Standard portal spells work on the spherewall, but any metal that travels through the spherewall has a 75% chance of changing to stone.
The Stars appear to be great fires just behind the spherewall, burning furiously to escape from some crystal prison. Strangely, the starlight can be seen through the Black Gulf from the planets, but those that travel within the Black Gulf cannot see the starlight.
Additional Astronomicals
The Dead Forest – Somewhere near the Shard Islands is this lost forest of dead, butterfly-like trees. The trees, once magnificent and vast, are black and shriveled. Strangely, all have interior hollows, as if they were once used as dwellings.
The Fallen Forge – This rouge asteroid is perhaps 1000’ in diameter. A great dwarven face is carved into one side of it. Tunnels and chambers run through the heart of the asteroid’s heart, as if built by dwarves of great skill. Despite many centuries of looting, the Fallen Forge still yields treasure from time to time, such as gold, gems, and even precious steel weapons.
Forlorn Sargasso – Found not far from the edge of the Black Gulf is this strange collection of ancient ships. A terrible battle was fought here, one that left almost fifty ships smashed and ruined. Due to the defiling magic unleashed during the battle, nothing from the ships could be salvaged; all wood, metal, and weapons crumble to dust when touched.
The Messenger – A legendary comet that made a regular, 45-year cycle around the Crimson Sphere, the Messenger has mysteriously vanished. Strangely, even before the Messenger disappeared, none could approach it. Those that tried were never heard from again.
Paradise Forlorn – According to legend there is an asteroid with groves of fruit trees, water in fountains, and lost caches of steel weapons. This paradise is a false one, for the asteroid will seek to devour any that would dare tread upon it.
Suntree – The home for space-dwelling thri-kreen is the Suntree, probably the largest tree in all of the Crimson Sphere. It is several miles tall and orbits close to the Sun. It is immune to defiling magic, and even resists preserving magic as well.
City-State of Hopa – The asteroid that Hopa is built upon is shaped like a great coin, about five miles in diameter and 1000’ thick. Dwellings are built not upon the surface of the coin, but in shallow caves in the cliffs. The top and bottom of the coin is extensively farmed. The individual dwellings can be easily fortified, making invasion difficult. A network of tunnels makes the whole city a well-defended fortress.
City-State of K’ydon – this city is ruled by the ruthless Warden-Queen Hu. Her seat of power is a five-sided ziggurat. Regular sacrifices to her are made at the dawn of each day. Depending on the day, these sacrifices range from fruit to roasted animals to sentient beings. After dawn sacrifice, the citizens begin their daily activities. The heart of the city is a market square, where anything can be bought, for a price. Above the city, on a high, steep-cliff hill is Fortress Soom, which guards the approaches to K’ydon.
City-State of Nijhal – Found at the heart of the Verdant Stones is Nijhal, the Jewel of the Sextant. The city sits at the top of a hill on a large asteroid, surrounded by sparse hills. It is in a constant state of turmoil as various races clash over petty issues. The ruler of Nijhal is the Warden-King Husam, who ruthlessly seized power ten years ago. He keeps the various factions at each others’ throats instead of his own in a bid to hold on to power. Nijhal has seen more than one hundred coups, each just as bloody as the last.
City-State of Mahda – The shadow of Cinder protects this city-state. It is surrounded by a hot jungle that seems to press down on the city like a siege. The templars are frantically searching the sphere for anything that will heal their Warden-King Arun, who was burned horribly in battle. Arun takes his frustrations out on his people, ordering random executions.
City-State of Sentinel – Hidden from view from Athas by Guthay, Sentinel is a large, fortified city. It is shaped like a great ziggurat, 10 miles per side and 3 miles tall. Buildings are along the nine ledges, with the poorest citizens living at the bottom ledge and templars living at the top ledges. Dabi, the Warden-King of Sentinel, has not been seen in over a century, and some suspect he perished.
History of the Crimson Sphere
It is not known what the Crimson Sphere was like prior to the Cleansing War. Fragments of ancient star charts hint at a prosperous family of planets, perhaps even ports and civilization beyond Athas. Much like on Athas, the Cleansing War swept over the rest of the sphere like an encroaching plague. Rajaat knew well that the Cleaning War would attract those seeking to take advantage of the warfare to their own ends, not his own. To counter the threat from other worlds, Rajaat anointed twelve Wardens. One by one, each Warden constructed a great ziggurat. In each of these ziggurats was placed one of the twelve Shards of the Zodiac. At the zenith of each zodiac, a ziggurat lifted into the sky and disappeared into the night. Each bore a great army within their stone halls, led by their Warden captains.
As Rajaat foresaw, the start of the Cleansing War caught the attention of beings from other worlds. Alien creatures, known elsewhere as illithids and beholders, sent their agents and fleets. Others came as well, such as the elves of the Imperial Fleet, pirates from a hundred spheres, and countless petty warlords. The Wardens battled them all, leaving much destruction in their wake.
Sometime during the 162nd King's Age, the Wardens' defense of Athas was on the brink of collapse. Fearful of being overrun, they brought about the Black Gulf to cut off the reinforcements of their many enemies. The tactic worked all too well; the invaders' supply lines were severed, but no one, not even the Wardens themselves, could escape the Crimson Sphere.
The Wardens played little part in Borys' rebellion against Rajaat. Indeed, so focused were they on destroying the last of the invaders that the event passed them by without them even knowing it. Not until the 170th King's Age did they learn of Rajaat's imprisonment, when they were approached by Borys. The Wardens were given a choice: side with Borys, or be destroyed. Those that sided with Borys gained great power that in time became not unlike that of the sorcerer-kings. Those that did not perished. Borys instructed the Wardens to continue their vigilance against the surviving invaders. The Wardens each claimed a city-state and began two millennium of petty warfare against one another.
Warden-Kings and their Subjects
The Warden-Kings are not unlike the Sorcerer-Kings of Athas. Most are dragon-like creatures that grant spells to Templar followers. Unlike the Sorcerer-Kings, the Warden-Kings are limited in their power, held in check by the Shads of the Zodiac (see below).
Arun – This Warden-King was horribly burned in battle decades ago. Although his flesh was greatly damaged, he did not die. He locked himself away in his city to slowly heal. His injuries are magical in nature, and cannot be healed through time. Instead, he must rely on rare herbs and powerful healing magic to restore himself. His templar are frantically searching the whole Crimson Sphere for the magic needed to heal their Warden-King. Those than return empty-handed are executed. Powerful spells keep the templars bound to Arun and prevent them from simply fleeing the city.
Dabi – This defiler was the greatest and most powerful of the Wardens, such that Rajaat named him his “Shield”. From the city of Sentinel Dabi directed the defense of Athas against the invaders. After becoming a Warden-King, Dabi attempted to take short-cuts to become a full-fledged dragon. His attempt failed miserably, and is now a terribly deformed, yet powerful and dangerous, creature. His templars keep Dabi secluded in the catacombs of his ziggurat, tending him in hopes that he will recover his sanity.
Hananka – Called the Warrior-Warden by his followers, Hananka is the strongest and most ruthless of the Warden-Kings. He is unafraid to board his personal warship, a fully-armed hammership, and lead his powerful navy into battle himself. Hananka has a personal hatred of illithids, creatures he distastes greatly. At the edges of his city, Hopa, hundreds of illithid skulls have been placed on pikes, a sign to invaders that Hananka will never stop fighting them. Three Shards of the Zodiac have fallen into his possession.
Hu – The so called “Queen of a Thousand Faces”, Hu is a most terrible queen. Every year she selects the most beautiful girl in her city and drains that girl of all life and beauty. Hu takes the face of the girl she just murdered and wears it for a year. She ages rapidly, such that by the end of the year, she appears to be in her 80’s. Hu is the most brutal of the Warden-Kings, subjecting her people to harsh and unyielding rule. Her city is K’ydon, the most distant and isolated of the City-States, and has thusly been on the frontline of the war against the Invaders for many, many centuries.
Husam – This king seized power roughly 10 years ago, claiming Nijhal’s symbol of authority, a black obsidian sword known as Slayer. He is an aggressive, ambitious king who seeks to expand his rule at the expense of other city-states and to crush the invaders, once and for all. Husam is not what he seems. In truth, he has been possessed by Slayer, a magical blade forged by Rajaat himself. Long ago, the Warden who first wielded it perished, but he transferred his essence into the sword. He then possesses those who would attempt to use Slayer, and masquerades as that warrior. Slayer encourages bloody coups so that only the strongest warriors will try to “claim” him.
Zol – This preserver has the distinction of being the only (known) creature to have escaped the Crimson Sphere and managed to return. He left the sphere believing that the means to save Athas lay somewhere in other spheres. After many centuries of searching, Zol has come to believe that the key to Athas’ salvation is to be found on Athas itself, not in some distant sphere. He has only recently returned, and has not yet returned to Athas itself. Zol is a partially transformed preserver metamorphosis, having achieved only a low metamorphosis stage.
Aarakocra – Despite the vast open spaces of the void, the confining nature of small air envelopes do not provide the space these wind-loving creatures desire. All aarakocra in space have been brought there against their will.
Dwarves – The strong backs and single-minded devotion dwarves possess proved desirable to the Wardens, so they brought many dwarves with them into space. Dwarves can be found in any of the cities and villages throughout the sphere.
Elves – The confined conditions of asteroids and ships is too much for the plains-loving elves of Athas, so very few of them make it into space. Elves tend to seek out their own kind and form wandering, gypsy-like clans. These clans are not well-liked, but tolerated for the entertainment they bring.
Halflings – Halflings are virtually unknown in space. They feel extremely uncomfortable when taken off of Athas, as if they don’t belong. After a while, they become jumpy and agitated a feeling that stays with them until they are returned to Athas.
Half-Giants – These enormous creatures would not ordinarily be expected to be found in large numbers in the confined spaces aboard ships. Yet the great strength of these creatures has earned them a place in the Crimson Sphere as shock troops for the armies of the Warden-Kings.
Humans – Humans make up the majority of the people in the Crimson Sphere. They are found everywhere that one can find civilization. A few are descendants from humans from other spheres; such people must hide their heritage, as they are greatly hated by the natives. These “invader-spawn” are a convenient scapegoat for the Warden-Kings.
Muls – Many muls work as slaves and gladiators in all of the city-states. They are considered property and have no rights, although rare muls have been able to win freedom if they prove themselves in the arena.
Ptreen – Almost non-existent beyond Athas, the few ptreen in space keep to themselves. They avoid city-states and most villages. It is suspected they have their own villages carefully hidden somewhere in the sphere, but thus far none have been found.
Thri-Kreen – The center of thri-kreen civilization in space is the Suntree, a large free-floating tree orbiting close to the sun. The kreen are welcomed in the city-states, but tend to be isolated in ghettos of their own people.
There are few variations of ships in the Crimson Sphere. Shortages of wood and tools have forced most travelers to use the carcasses of giant insects and other creatures. Ships from other spheres might be encountered, but they will be unique in the sphere. The ships presented below represent the most common craft flown in the sphere.
Dragonfly – Tonnage 5 tons, Hull Points 5, Crew 1/5, Maneuvering Class C, Landing – Ground only, Armor Rating 9, Saves As thin wood, Power Type Psijammer, Cargo 2 tons, Keel 30’, Beam 15’.
The thri-kreen make use of this small, unusual ship. The hull is the carcass of a giant insect while the wings are an unusual, paper-like material that the thri-kreen can make. Dragonflies travel in packs, as they are easy prey otherwise. Use the standard deckplan of a dragonfly, with the following modifications: remove the ship weapon and cargo hold, reduce the dimensions of the forward half of the ship to 30’ by 15’, and remove the stairs to the upper deck. Thri-kreen simply jump to get to the top deck.
Eel – Tonnage 15 tons, Hull Points 15, Crew 4/15, Maneuvering Class C, Landing – Water only, Armor Rating 8, Saves As thin wood, Power Type Psijammer, Cargo 8 tons, Keel 110’, Beam 15’.
The eel is a fairly common tradesman in the Crimson Sphere. It is the one ship that can still be built, even if pieces of chitin are used instead of wood. All eels are unarmed, by order of the Warden-Kings. Use the standard deckplans of an eelship, except removing the weapons.
Lamprey – Tonnage 15 tons, Hull Points 15, Crew 6/15, Maneuvering Class D, Landing – Water only, Armor Rating 7, Saves As thin wood, Power Type Psijammer, Cargo 8 tons, Keel 100’, Beam 20’.
Primary vessel of the illithid nations, the lamprey is a ship made from bones and chitin. It is indeed a terrible vessel to behold, decorated with human skulls and human-skin sails. A medium weapon is carried, firing forward. Other weapons are removed from the standard lamprey deckplan, as the illithids do not have the resources to properly outfit such craft. The grappling ram is likewise removed, making room for slave quarters at the bow of the ship.
Lesser Ziggurat – Tonnage 90 tons, Hull Points 90, Crew 6/90, Maneuvering Class F, Landing – Ground only, Armor Rating 1, Saves As stone, Power Type Lifejammer, Cargo 25 tons, Keel 80’, Beam 80’.
The lesser Ziggurat is pyramid-shaped and serves as the battleship of the Crimson Sphere. The interior is largely hollow with a much smaller pyramid at the center, from which the Templar commands his minions. A small army is carried aboard a lesser Ziggurat, up to six hundred men. Use the standard deckplans for the Flying Pyramid, removing all by four heavy ballistae and sealing most of the gun ports.
Scarabship – Tonnage 15 tons, Hull Points 15, Crew 6/15, Maneuvering Class C, Landing – Ground only, Armor Rating 8, Saves As bone, Power Type Lifejammer, Cargo 12 tons, Keel 75’, Beam 20’.
The Scarabship is another ship made from the chitin hide of a colossal insect, except made from a beetle. It has a pair of wings to improve maneuvering, but rarely armed. It is commonly used to carry important cargo or as a transport for troops. Use the standard deckplans for the scorpionship with the following modifications: remove all ship weapons including the claw rams, remove the tail, and shorten the legs to one-quarter the original length.
Scorpionship – Tonnage 15 tons, Hull Points 15, Crew 6/15, Maneuvering Class D, Landing – Ground only, Armor Rating 7, Saves As bone, Power Type Lifejammer, Cargo 12 tons, Keel 75’, Beam 20’.
The Scorpionship is made from the chitin hide of a colossal scorpion. Wooden decks have been installed, but conditions can be cramped. The only armament of these ships is their claws, which are kept operable by wooden gears. A pair of half-giants operates the claws. The lifejammer is kept in the head of the scorpion and watched over by a third half-giant or other strong guard. Use the standard scorpion deckplans for this ship, modifying by removing the ballista and catapults.
Artifacts and Helms
There are only two types of helms commonly found in the Crimson Sphere: the psijammer and the lifejammer. Standard spelljamming helms are almost unique artifacts, rare to the point of myth.
Psijammer – the psijammer helm is the lesser of the spelljamming helms. It is a throne-like stone chair made to tune into psionic energy. A creature that can use psionic abilities can use the psijammer. A helmsman sits in the chair and expends 1 PSP (3e: Power Points) for every five tons of the ship per every hour he uses the helm. Thus, the helmsman must expend 4 PSP per hour to fly a 20-ton ship. The psijammer has an upper limit of 25 tons, and moves a ship at the rate of 1 ship’s rating for every 4 levels of the helmsman.
Landing a ship using a psijammer is very tricky, as gravity puts great stress on the helmsman. For every size category of the planet, double the PSP cost. Thus, to land on Athas using a 15-ton ship, it requires 96 PSP. That is, base cost of 3 PSP doubled 5 five times for the size E planet. If the helmsman lacks the PSP, the ship crashes.
Lifejammer – the lifejammer is the most powerful spelljamming device common to the Crimson Sphere. It is a terrible device of black stone and defiling magic. When a humanoid creature is placed in the throne-like chair, it steals from him life to fly a spelljammer. The helm drains away 1 point of constitution per every 8 hours the victim is confined to the chair; those drained to 0 points of constitution perish and cannot be revived. The loss of constitution is permanent. A lifejammer can power a ship of up to 100 tons at the speed of 1 ship’s rating per every 3 levels or HD of the victim in the helm.
Shards of the Zodiac
This artifact is said to have originally appeared as a midnight-back orb fitted with diamonds that represented the 12 zodiac creatures. It was shattered into twelve pieces, once for each zodiac. Possession of a shard provides great power onto the owner. In effect, a shard can be used, given time, research, and much ceremony, to turn the owner into a dragon. It took the Wardens at least three centuries to discover the process to turn themselves from powerful beings into full-fledged Warden-Kings, contemporaries to the Sorcerer-Kings of Athas. It is suspected that the aide of Borys is required for the process to be successful. Fortunately, the Warden-Kings are limited in the growth of their power; to advance, they need an additional shard. In theory, if all 12 shards were recovered by a single Warden-King, he could potentially become a dragon even more powerful than Borys. Such an event is highly unlikely, since the Warden-Kings have searched franticly for the missing shards and have turned up nothing in the last 2,000 years.
Bibliography
Darksun Boxed Set
Spelljammer Boxed Set
Lost Ships
Ivory Triangle
3e Darksun Download from Athas.com
2e Complete Psionic Handbook
3e Psionics Handbook
Originally posted by Kamelion
Wow, sound work! Some cool ideas there, Nightdruid. You've captured the feel of the old 2e SJ writeups perfectly
Thank you!
I hope both SJ & DS folk enjoy it!
Mind if I put this up in my articles section?
Full credit of course.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Good stuff, hazy on the SJ stuff though.
Mind if I put this up in my articles section?
Full credit of course.
Sure, go ahead and add it. Glad you enjoyed it enough to want to put it on your website :DI wonder how long an air envelope for an SM would exist, hehe.
Some of them, Borys at least, probably flew around Athas space on a regular basis.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Yeah, what little I know of SJ from one of my players that is the one that DMs only SJ in our group, grabbed my interest again.
I wonder how long an air envelope for an SM would exist, hehe.
Some of them, Borys at least, probably flew around Athas space on a regular basis.
Well, if you're interested, here's some "fast play" rules for SJ that Paul Westermeyer (my PBEM DM!) wrote:
http://www.spelljammer.org/rules/fastplay2e.html
Unless sorcerer-kings consume an unnatural amount of air, they should use the same air as any other creature of the same size
Of course, I had Borys make at least one trip into space, leaving the rest to DMs to decide (couple of things in the Crimson Sphere I left vague to keep the mystery of certain things...aka the Messenger comet, for DMs to decide how those work out :D )
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Mind if I put this up in my articles section?
Full credit of course.
NytCrawler, one small condition, if you don't mind. At the bottom of the page, please add "For more information about Spelljammer, go to www.Spelljammer.org". A link to Athas.com might be nice, too, but getting some extra exposure for Beyond the Moons is an added bonus
Originally posted by Nightdruid
NytCrawler, one small condition, if you don't mind. At the bottom of the page, please add "For more information about Spelljammer, go to www.Spelljammer.org". A link to Athas.com might be nice, too, but getting some extra exposure for Beyond the Moons is an added bonus
Certainly.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Certainly.
Thank you!
The Spherewall thing you mentioned. That is the "Crystal Sphere" thing like a marble around the Realm, right?
The "Crystal Sphere" thing , is that limiting a particular reality to a Solar system or is it sort of a pseudo-magical jumping point just outside of the focal System in a Universe and the stars and other star systems and planets and such can be reached if you forgo "phasing into the Crystal"?
I ask because other than the book I read on Dark Sun and the "Lifemasters" (That everyone says isn't real/isn't official/I have a good imagination/delusional) I know nothing of the intricacies of Spelljamming .
Interestingly, the "Solar wind" creates kind of a "bubble" of high energy plasma against the "galactic wind" in real astronomy observance :D
do yourself a favor and read this article:
http://www.spelljammer.org/rules/fastplay2e.html
It gives a very brief breakdown of the SJ universe (and some of the rules). The first section, entitled "The Universe", would probably answer most of your questions, while the rest can give you a basic overview of the SJ rules and how they work. I certainly would explain it better than I can.
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
I have 2 questions.
The Spherewall thing you mentioned. That is the "Crystal Sphere" thing like a marble around the Realm, right?
The "Crystal Sphere" thing , is that limiting a particular reality to a Solar system or is it sort of a pseudo-magical jumping point just outside of the focal System in a Universe and the stars and other star systems and planets and such can be reached if you forgo "phasing into the Crystal"?
I ask because other than the book I read on Dark Sun and the "Lifemasters" (That everyone says isn't real/isn't official/I have a good imagination/delusional) I know nothing of the intricacies of Spelljamming .
Interestingly, the "Solar wind" creates kind of a "bubble" of high energy plasma against the "galactic wind" in real astronomy observance :D
...That's funny. You mean to tell me that you've been arguing for Dark Sun & Spelljammer crossovers without knowing either setting? No offense, but... wow.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
...That's funny. You mean to tell me that you've been arguing for Dark Sun & Spelljammer crossovers without knowing either setting? No offense, but... wow.
Actually, I think he's arguing "against" SJ/DS crossover, but point well-taken...;)
Of related note: On the Planescape board we have a discussion going on about "Planejammers", and I've written quite a few things about them on that thread. Check it out if your interested!
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
Good stuff Nightdruid. Once again your writing skills resemble those of the TSR staff in days of yore. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! Once the ideas were set, it basically wrote itself (with help from some DS-fans to refine the ideas )Of related note: On the Planescape board we have a discussion going on about "Planejammers", and I've written quite a few things about them on that thread. Check it out if your interested! [/b]
Noticed it, was waiting to post Crimson Sphere before I got to it. I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow, depending on when I can get together a coherant thought.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
...That's funny. You mean to tell me that you've been arguing for Dark Sun & Spelljammer crossovers without knowing either setting? No offense, but... wow.
Yeah, no kidding, sheesh.
Such a devotee. :D
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
...That's funny. You mean to tell me that you've been arguing for Dark Sun & Spelljammer crossovers without knowing either setting? No offense, but... wow.
I know Dark Sun because I have "Preservers and Defilers", "Veiled Alliance", "Mind Lords of the Last Sea", "Dragon Kings" and also played the "Wake of the Ravager" and "Crimson Sands" that had little "history books" in the Game.
The "Spelljammer" Athas part comes from the supplement book I read in the Used Book Store and talked about the "LifeMasters" that were the "Creator Race" that predated even the Halfling Rule in the "Blue Age"....though technically the Re...Re... the "high tech" Halflings were just another "engineered" race much like the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen though it was the Halflings playing with forces they didn't fully understand from their former masters that caused the "Green Age" and the various "mutations" that created the other races.
Because of the all the Ships over Athas. some with "out of it" "Lifemasters" populating the bigger ones a "rebellion" was unlikely and is as much of a mystery of the coming of the "Grey" and "Black" when the Sun was first sucked of life which turned it from Blue to Yellow.
I just gotta find that book
But Most "History" has a Fallen civilization or 2 under it's belt when you think of it.
I am playing Neverwinter Nights right now and the "Forgotten Realms" seems to have 2 fallen civilizations as well which are the "Netheril Empire" and the older Civilization of the "Creator Race" of Toril which are Lizard-like Humanoids (Raphael?)
Even the "Source" of all D&D....Tolkien's "Middle Earth" (As the Creators of D&D were "Lord of the Rings" and "War in Middle Earth" fans) has lots of fallen and ancient civilizations laid to waste
Pyreen originated in the Green Age. Thri-Kreen (well, the original, non-sentient variety) and the "civilized" Halflings originated in the Blue Age. There are thousands of years between these two events, and yet you keep connecting them as if they are one in the same. The other races of Athas showed up after the PRistine Tower was used, a time known as the Rebirth, where Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. as well as Pyreen were a part of. The life-draining magic of which you attribute to your so-called "Lifemasters" wasn't invented/developed until *after* this rebirth by a twisted and mangled up Pyreen known as Rajaat.
The Halflings of the Blue Age had Nature-masters and Nature-benders, the first having the full knowledge for making life-shaped creatures, of which the Rhulisti in the modern age are the only society to still use (or even know of) these things. Their ability didn't drain life-energy, it reshaped creatures, a sort of bio-technology. The Nature-benders were a corrupt group of Halflings that were banned from the resot of Halfling Society, and of which I believe are the reason the Thri-Kreen became sentient, and had re-shaped themselves into what eventually was known as the Zik-Chil, or Priests of Change for the Tohr-Kreen Empire in modern Athasian times.
With no evidence, not even a reference other than some obscure and vague "book found in an old used bookstore", your case has no merit. However, if you wish to significantly change Dark Sun for your own campaigns, have at it, but please, don't state it as if it is how everyone uses the campaign.
Originally posted by Nightdruid
WarOverlord,
do yourself a favor and read this article:
http://www.spelljammer.org/rules/fastplay2e.html
It gives a very brief breakdown of the SJ universe (and some of the rules). The first section, entitled "The Universe", would probably answer most of your questions, while the rest can give you a basic overview of the SJ rules and how they work. I certainly would explain it better than I can.
Thank you, that was most interesting.
Looked like they built on the "Immortal Campaigns" (D&D Player's guide to Immortals, D&D DM's Guide to Immorals) when they were talking about how not all gods are equal and can lose power or have limited powers between realities, the common association with language and beings on different worlds, and "the flow" sounding a lot like "the land beyond" and the "Crystal Gates" that the gods used to move the different races from Realm to Realm during "the the Great Migration" :D
But, yeah the "Lifemasters" ships were called "spelljammers" but they were more like "living creatures" with magic and technology all mixed together and the Illustration showed a more "space Ship" looking craft that was like a Tear drop shape with the front being the teared point and embitterments (weapons) running across the front and sides (kinda like those Imperial cruisers in Star wars) then a Sail ship flying in space like on that board
Since, especially if this were so rare a book that no one out of some two dozen or so rabbid fanboys and fangirls has ever heard of it, its highly unlikely that the bookstore would still have a copy. Something this rare would likely fly off a shelf quicker than signed copy of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium (and trust me, that's rare). If your going to stick to quoting this reference, please, please, please, take a few minutes out of your day and do a little searching for it on the web, if for no other reason than to give yourself piece of mind that your memory isn't starting to go out on you just yet ;). There are a good amount of websites that list every single book ever released for the RPG industry, normally catagorized by publisher, setting, and then some. The search would not take very long since you would know what to look for a little better than I. And please don't come back and say that a certain website, which lists each and every seperate printing of each and every RPG book published to date just happens not to have this one book listed. If so, then your in for . . . something. Something bad. And mean. Yeah, something bad-mean (<--- humor).
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
The thing about it is this - you are making claims to these "Lifemasters", of which *nobody* has heard of here until you mentioned it. Many of the people who post in this forum have been dealing with Dark Sun since it's release, and many of us have all of the Dark Sun gaming books & novels, as well as several have all of the material from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. And yet, curiously enough, you keep referencing something we haven't heard of before - and keep stating it as fact, with nothing to back up your claim. People have suggested that you just *might* have muddled up your information quite a bit, and have been hoping that you'd eventually concur. Rather, you keep referring to these "lifemasters" as if they are an absolute, and then are trying to connect Dark Sun with Spelljammer - a game you have admittedly stated you don't know much of anything about.
Pyreen originated in the Green Age. Thri-Kreen (well, the original, non-sentient variety) and the "civilized" Halflings originated in the Blue Age. There are thousands of years between these two events, and yet you keep connecting them as if they are one in the same. The other races of Athas showed up after the PRistine Tower was used, a time known as the Rebirth, where Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. as well as Pyreen were a part of. The life-draining magic of which you attribute to your so-called "Lifemasters" wasn't invented/developed until *after* this rebirth by a twisted and mangled up Pyreen known as Rajaat.
The Halflings of the Blue Age had Nature-masters and Nature-benders, the first having the full knowledge for making life-shaped creatures, of which the Rhulisti in the modern age are the only society to still use (or even know of) these things. Their ability didn't drain life-energy, it reshaped creatures, a sort of bio-technology. The Nature-benders were a corrupt group of Halflings that were banned from the resot of Halfling Society, and of which I believe are the reason the Thri-Kreen became sentient, and had re-shaped themselves into what eventually was known as the Zik-Chil, or Priests of Change for the Tohr-Kreen Empire in modern Athasian times.
With no evidence, not even a reference other than some obscure and vague "book found in an old used bookstore", your case has no merit. However, if you wish to significantly change Dark Sun for your own campaigns, have at it, but please, don't state it as if it is how everyone uses the campaign.
No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Short of trying to recite the whole book I am only answering the questions in relation what is already posted
Originally posted by Mach2.5
I've actually gone through some extensive, exhaustive, and quite comprehesive listings for any product that could possibly fit the description of this so called DS+SJ book that Overlord is refering to. Alas, I've come up short.
Since, especially if this were so rare a book that no one out of some two dozen or so rabbid fanboys and fangirls has ever heard of it, its highly unlikely that the bookstore would still have a copy. Something this rare would likely fly off a shelf quicker than signed copy of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium (and trust me, that's rare). If your going to stick to quoting this reference, please, please, please, take a few minutes out of your day and do a little searching for it on the web, if for no other reason than to give yourself piece of mind that your memory isn't starting to go out on you just yet ;). There are a good amount of websites that list every single book ever released for the RPG industry, normally catagorized by publisher, setting, and then some. The search would not take very long since you would know what to look for a little better than I. And please don't come back and say that a certain website, which lists each and every seperate printing of each and every RPG book published to date just happens not to have this one book listed. If so, then your in for . . . something. Something bad. And mean. Yeah, something bad-mean (<--- humor).
Nah,
Me quoting the reference isn't even related to the topic which is about a Crossover.
As cool as it is "Cannon" would say no Spelljamming is allowed cause the "Black" and "Grey" is impassable by Spelljammers
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Short of trying to recite the whole book I am only answering the questions in relation what is already posted
Ok.... once again. I'll try to see if I can get through to you and your rather siognificant flaw in thinking. If the Lifemasters made the Halflings, Pyreen and Thri-Kreen, as you say. Please explain to me why it was they waited...... thousands of years, more like thens of thousands of years between making the Halfings and Thri-Kreen before making the Pyreen?
Why is it that there is nothing (as in nadda, nil, nix) for Dark Sun or Spelljammer that has been found that even remotely gives evidence to what you are saying? You are expecting the rest of us to go on faith alone that you have seen this book, and that you can recall it with crystal clarity (and yet, cannot recall the name of said book at all)? And that this book seemingly contradicts everything that has been presented in the Dark Sun campaign setting - so much that it seemingly invalidates entire sections of gaming books in their entirety (like the timeline found in the Wanderer's Chronicle), or other materials for Dark Sun (like the "official" timeline for Dark Sun)?
I just have one thing to say about that.....
"Joseph Smith was called a prophet, dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb..."
(ref: South Park)
(no offence intended to those Mormon readers out there, purely using the South Park humor to make a point)
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Ok.... once again. I'll try to see if I can get through to you and your rather siognificant flaw in thinking. If the Lifemasters made the Halflings, Pyreen and Thri-Kreen, as you say. Please explain to me why it was they waited...... thousands of years, more like thens of thousands of years between making the Halfings and Thri-Kreen before making the Pyreen?
Why is it that there is nothing (as in nadda, nil, nix) for Dark Sun or Spelljammer that has been found that even remotely gives evidence to what you are saying? You are expecting the rest of us to go on faith alone that you have seen this book, and that you can recall it with crystal clarity (and yet, cannot recall the name of said book at all)? And that this book seemingly contradicts everything that has been presented in the Dark Sun campaign setting - so much that it seemingly invalidates entire sections of gaming books in their entirety (like the timeline found in the Wanderer's Chronicle), or other materials for Dark Sun (like the "official" timeline for Dark Sun)?
That's right: Canon rules the day.
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Wow, that's a vivid imagination. Few things:
1) The only setting the term Creator Race has ever been used was in Forgotten Realms.
2) This lifemaster rebelleon sounds a little like the Reigar Master Stroke, in which the Reigar (an artistic race that owns living ships) blew up their homeworld. Of course, the question is, will your memory change again, given that when I pointed out that your Athas Defense Fleet sounded more like an untrelated entry from a totally different book, the ships mysteriously went from 300' to 3 miles in size.
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
Nah,
Me quoting the reference isn't even related to the topic which is about a Crossover.
You quoting the reference is, however, related to your credibility, which rates a big, fat zero at the moment. Your melding of these ideas is quite interesting, and watching you run round in circles trying to rationalise and re-rationalise all of your various thoughts is highly amusing. But it doesn't change the fact that you are full of doo-doo.
But please don't stop - really. I am coming to rely on these daily doses of dementia to keep my own at bay
Originally posted by Mach2.5
I've actually gone through some extensive, exhaustive, and quite comprehesive listings for any product that could possibly fit the description of this so called DS+SJ book that Overlord is refering to. Alas, I've come up short.
You might be looking in the wrong places, under the wrong headings. I have high confidence that the "halfling defense fleet" originated with the Evermeet section of SJ: War Captain's Compendium. Bit perplexied by these "lifemasters", but I suspect they're either a SJ race (the Juna/Zookeepers or the Reigar?) or from FR (one or more of the Creator Races). I have a feeling he got terms mixed up along the way, and has spun the story so much that I doubt even he has it straight anymore.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
I did alittle research, and I think the book that Waroverlord is quoting is called "Shapers of the Dark" or something along those lines. I'm not even sure it is a Darksun, or even a TSR book however...
Never heard of it...any idea who published it &/or when it was published?
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
Nah,
Me quoting the reference isn't even related to the topic which is about a Crossover.
hen why do you keep quoting the reference in discussions related to the topic of a Crossover? Further - your references seem to indicate a Spelljammer/Dark Sun crossover, but you are now saying that they don't? Your logic is.... truly baffling.
As cool as it is "Cannon" would say no Spelljamming is allowed cause the "Black" and "Grey" is impassable by Spelljammers
However, Nightdruid's attempts at explaining the possibility of SJ in DS looks like work done by someone who has actually reviewed and comprehended the game system, and developed a method for it to potentially work within both campaign settings. The "Lifemasters" take you have presented looks like something half remembered blurred with a dream. There is nothing that shows what you claim to be fact, there is no book, as you claim, which deals with Dark Sun and Spelljammer. You have seriously mistaken some other source, and apparently have a very muddled-up memory of what you thought you knew about Dark Sun. You blatantly deny when people quote references from books which they name in their references, books that most of us on this forum are fairly intimately familiar with. You then start quoting these references from a book [i]you cannot name[/u], that significantly changes the very structure and design of Dark Sun to a point that it goes way beyond anything that TSR had done which has resulted in the little mistakes in the setting as it stands. Heck, people have even quoted something from several references, and you still just don't seem to get it.
Get over it - there are no "Life Masters" for Dark Sun. There is no "Creator Race" for it. There is no massive collection of spacecraft drifting around Athas. Until you can back up your claims to the contrary with the title of the book, or some other valid bibliographical information, just drop it. Or simply claim that it's your own wonderful take on the world, which you have come up with yourself, and then the arguement can be put to rest.
xlorepdarkhelm: Waroverlord sounds honest with his descriptions of these "Lifemasters". I know, it contredicts DS canon. But he has no ill intentions regarding his mentioning this supposed Dark Sun creator race, or massive spelljammer fleet, yada yada. Even if the stuff he posted are fiction of his creation, I still found what he posted interesting, perhaps suitable for my own (non-Darksun) campaign world.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
xlorepdarkhelm: Waroverlord sounds honest with his descriptions of these "Lifemasters". I know, it contredicts DS canon. But he has no ill intentions regarding his mentioning this supposed Dark Sun creator race, or massive spelljammer fleet, yada yada. Even if the stuff he posted are fiction of his creation, I still found what he posted interesting, perhaps suitable for my own (non-Darksun) campaign world.
It's not that I don't think he sounds honest in his convictions. It's just that there have been several attempts already made to give him the chance to understand that what he is talking about doesn't make sense for Dark Sun as is written. It sounds cool for something he came up for his own campaigns. The thing is - he is arguing that what everyone else is stating (sometimes directly from books for Dark Sun... several books) is wrong, because of some book that nobody else has seen written for Dark Sun. I'm not even arguing canon vs. non-canon here, since there are contradictions within the Dark Sun materials. However what his arguements are that the things which aren't contradicted within the Dark Sun materials are wrong. Dark Sun is an established campaign setting. It would be akin to him going to a Ravenloft site and starts telling people that there is no such creature as Count Strahd von Zarovitch, or that Azalin is a big-brested elven woman who is full of joy and sprinkles rainbows everywhere she goes. Or going to a Dragonlance site and saying that Raistlin was a priest of Pelor (who isn't a god of Krynn, but rather of Oerth, the Greyhawk setting). Such things just are so blatantly incorrect that they don't make sense at all.
I can somewhat understand a slight mix-up with Star Wars - as I tend to believe that the Yuusong Vong of the "New Jedi Order" era were, in part, based on the Rhulisti from Dark Sun. Of course, it's just an almost insignificant amount which they are based on them. This is due to the letter I think that Lynn Abbey had sent to the Dark Sun Mailing List.... or it could be something else.
No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
Black Knight: "I'm invincible!"
Arthur: "You're a looney"
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
However, Nightdruid's attempts at explaining the possibility of SJ in DS looks like work done by someone who has actually reviewed and comprehended the game system, and developed a method for it to potentially work within both campaign settings.
Ah shucks, thanks!
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
I have no idea who published the book, I just, wait, now I remember, It wasn't even D&D, it was Star Wars! There was this planet hidden in a massive gassious nebula that had these weird teleporting ships guarding it. The something monks I believe? The book was "Spectar of the Past" darn good novel, if you like Star Wars.
THAT makes much more sense. I had a feeling that these lifemasters came from something outside D&D, unless it was a 1e adventure I don't own. Ya, the lifemasters sound like the Yuusong Vong rather than halflings from Athas. Good job tracking it down
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Black Knight: "I'm invincible!"
Arthur: "You're a looney"
Jon, I do believe you have managed to summarize this entire debate in 2 lines...
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Wow, that's a vivid imagination. Few things:
1) The only setting the term Creator Race has ever been used was in Forgotten Realms.
2) This lifemaster rebelleon sounds a little like the Reigar Master Stroke, in which the Reigar (an artistic race that owns living ships) blew up their homeworld. Of course, the question is, will your memory change again, given that when I pointed out that your Athas Defense Fleet sounded more like an untrelated entry from a totally different book, the ships mysteriously went from 300' to 3 miles in size.
Read the post more carefully.
I said various sized ships from 300 feet to 3 miles in size.
Reigar Master Stroke? Is that another game world?
Well, perhaps everything is a rip off of everything else in D&D as D&D is a game "rip off" of "Lord of the Rings" that was a rip of of other literature such as "The Elves" and the chain goes on and on to the old time "fairy Tales" etc..
Even in movies and T.v. shows all writers seem to all use one brain with all the stupid "body Switch" movies in the Eighties and all the Stupid "dancer" (Honey, Dirty Dancing) and "racing" (Fast and Furious, FF2,Out of time) and "mid-evil" movies (LOTR,Gladiator,Troy) and "Colonial" (Pirates of the Caribbean, Master and Commander) now
Not to mention all the stupid pointless "reality" shows who's contestants at least have a little more brains than the Hollywood writer "collective mind" War Overlord: Your ideas are interesting and would make a great side adventure if you wanted to make a crossover adventure between Spelljammer and Dark Sun. As far as the Dark Sun (and Spelljammer) books are concerned, however, there is nothing official that links the two.
Just because there is nothing official, or canon, does not mean that you can't make something up or use material from other sources to make things up. Hell, my entire premise for the Cleansing Wars is almost entirely conjecture. It's a great idea, just don't claim that's it's official. This is a list of all Dark Sun books:
Defilers and Preservers: The Wizards of Athas (1996)
Mind Lords of the Last Sea (1996)
Psionic Artifacts of Athas (1996)
Beyond the Prism Pentad (1995)
Dark Sun Campaign Setting, Expanded and Revised (1995)
Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium Appendix II: Terrors Beyond Tyr (1995)
Thri-Kreen of Athas (1995)
Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs (1995)
Black Spine (1994)
City by the Silt Sea (1994)
Forest Maker (1994)
Will and the Way, The (1994)
Black Flames (1993)
City-State of Tyr (1993)
Complete Gladiator's Handbook, The (1993)
Dragon's Crown (1993)
Earth, Air, Fire, and Water (1993)
Elves of Athas (1993)
Ivory Triangle, The (1993)
Marauders of Nibenay (1993)
Merchant House of Amketch (1993)
Arcane Shadows (1992)
Asticlian Gambit (1992)
Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium Appendix: Terrors of the Desert (1992)
Dragon Kings (1992)
Dune Trader (1992)
Road to Urik (1992)
Slave Tribes (1992)
Valley of Dust and Fire (1992)
Veiled Alliance (1992)
Dark Sun World Boxed Set (1991)
Freedom (1991)
I own them all and not one of them mention Spelljammer in the capacity that you state, except to say that for Spelljamming purposes, Athas is a closed sphere. Again, your idea is a good one, just offer it up as an alternative, as opposed to canon, and I think that would put this fire out.
Xlor: Got to go with you on this one.
Jon: "Your arm's off!"
"No, it isn't!"
........................................................................................................
Heres another Spelljammer scenerio that runs against DS canon:
Athas is in reality, a massive world-sized Spelljammer, ala Dark City. The entire world is a massive on-going experiment being preformed by a secret society made up of a unknown race, who are from another Multiverse altoghether(A place that is not the Material Plane, an Elemental, Para-Elemental, or Quasi Elemental Plane, Outer Plane, Astral or Ethereal, Demiplane, or even the Far Realm and Plane of Shadow).
This race's Psionic Might is sufficiently powerful to shield the world from even the gods themselves, and prevent priests from other worlds to contact and receive power from their gods. Deep in the bowels of their ship, this race has created powerful devices which previde Elemental power to the clerics of Athas, as well as power to the various sorcerior kings of Athas, which enable them to channel power to Templars.
The Grey and Black are nothing more than memory batteries which contain the consciousness of the dead of Athas, or the living who somehow make their way their.
The reason the World of Athas is dying, is not because of the Defliers(whos impact on the world is but an illusion fostered by the controlling race, since they control the weather and climate of Athas totally), but because the controlling race has desided that their experiment is a failure, and are warming up to "pull the plug" on it so to speak.
I probably won't use it, but its still a cool idea.
Oh yeah, the only major info about The Order comes from Dragon Kings, and the Dragon's Crown adventure. You may find a scattered reference or two in other books (veilled alliance I think has a low level order member in there, possibly others in slave tribes or dune trader), but nothing actually detailing anything. Revised box set also talks a smidgen about the order and one of its bases of operations, the Nexus.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
It's not that I don't think he sounds honest in his convictions. It's just that there have been several attempts already made to give him the chance to understand that what he is talking about doesn't make sense for Dark Sun as is written. It sounds cool for something he came up for his own campaigns. The thing is - he is arguing that what everyone else is stating (sometimes directly from books for Dark Sun... several books) is wrong, because of some book that nobody else has seen written for Dark Sun. I'm not even arguing canon vs. non-canon here, since there are contradictions within the Dark Sun materials. However what his arguements are that the things which aren't contradicted within the Dark Sun materials are wrong. Dark Sun is an established campaign setting. It would be akin to him going to a Ravenloft site and starts telling people that there is no such creature as Count Strahd von Zarovitch, or that Azalin is a big-brested elven woman who is full of joy and sprinkles rainbows everywhere she goes. Or going to a Dragonlance site and saying that Raistlin was a priest of Pelor (who isn't a god of Krynn, but rather of Oerth, the Greyhawk setting). Such things just are so blatantly incorrect that they don't make sense at all.
I can somewhat understand a slight mix-up with Star Wars - as I tend to believe that the Yuusong Vong of the "New Jedi Order" era were, in part, based on the Rhulisti from Dark Sun. Of course, it's just an almost insignificant amount which they are based on them. This is due to the letter I think that Lynn Abbey had sent to the Dark Sun Mailing List.... or it could be something else.
I have never played a Pen and Paper D&D game in my life, nor do I plan to so it is pointless for me to make things up.
I only became interested in researching Dark Sun books cause I had "Wake of the Ravager" and "Crimson Sands" for the PC
And no, because of a misalignment in my Eyes I don't read novels so I don't know anything of Starwars Beyond the Movies.
Assuming your "New Jedi order" is an unofficial Novel as Luke and Lea were the last of the known Jedi in all the Universe according to Starwars 6:Return of the Jedi
(unless it was written by George Lucas and/or Steven Spielberg or at least approved as they are the Creators of "Starwars lore" )Don't even get me started on me being irritated by people trying to say Psionist are in anyway related Wimpy Jedi and their palor tricks. Psionists are more powerful and Jedi are in another Universe all together and are Mystic Monks, not Psions.
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
Don't even get me started on me being irritated by people trying to say Psionist are in anyway related Wimpy Jedi and their palor tricks. Psionists are more powerful and Jedi are in another Universe all together and are Mystic Monks, not Psions.
Err...OK. We won't. Really.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
So there was never a product detailing the Psionic Order more fully than the few pages in Dragon Kings?
Dragon's Crown.
Don't even get me started on me being irritated by people trying to say Psionist are in anyway related Wimpy Jedi and their palor tricks. Psionists are more powerful and Jedi are in another Universe all together and are Mystic Monks, not Psions.
Riiiiiiiiiight.
(remember bear training - look big, talk in a low voice, sllllloooooowly back away.... grrrrrrrrrr.......)
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Riiiiiiiiiight.
(remember bear training - look big, talk in a low voice, sllllloooooowly back away.... grrrrrrrrrr.......)
Read my mind...
Originally posted by The WarOverlord
I have never played a Pen and Paper D&D game in my life, nor do I plan to so it is pointless for me to make things up.
Umm.... ok.
I only became interested in researching Dark Sun books cause I had "Wake of the Ravager" and "Crimson Sands" for the PC
Umm.... ok.
And no, because of a misalignment in my Eyes I don't read novels so I don't know anything of Starwars Beyond the Movies.
Umm.... ok.
Assuming your "New Jedi order" is an unofficial Novel as Luke and Lea were the last of the known Jedi in all the Universe according to Starwars 6:Return of the Jedi
Actually, the "New Jedi Order" is an entire series of books. You see, about a decade ago, George Lucas decided that it would be all right for other authors to start writing books about Star Wars, as long as they did not write anything about the time prior to the movies (or even the time during the movies). The books that were written (of which there are probably close to 100 now) are collectively called "The New Jedi Order" Era. It's also called the "Expanded" Star Wars Universe, as you would see if you had ever looked at the star-wars.com website. It does some pretty cool things to the universe. But yes, it all is sanctioned by George Lucas.
Don't even get me started on me being irritated by people trying to say Psionist are in anyway related Wimpy Jedi and their palor tricks. Psionists are more powerful and Jedi are in another Universe all together and are Mystic Monks, not Psions.
Never said anything of the sort. Are you trying to pick a fight?
Oh the humanity!
Why don't we just ignore War Overlord's ramblings about this eh?
Cause obviously this is getting no where fast and is no longer amusing.
At least for me.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I can't believe this debate is going on.
Oh the humanity!
Why don't we just ignore War Overlord's ramblings about this eh?
Cause obviously this is getting no where fast and is no longer amusing.
At least for me.
It's kinda like a fatal carwreck...you know its horrible, but you just can't advert your eyes...
Of course, none of this relates to the Crimson Sphere itself in any way
Interesting idea and very creative. Nice work.
I really like this.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Yes! Back to Crimson Sphere.
Interesting idea and very creative. Nice work.
Thank you! You guys have had the strongest influences. I had a basic idea of what I wanted to do (resource-poor worlds run by sorcerer-kings with weak ships running around), but it was feedback from this board that helped refine those ideas into the final form.
I'm pleasantly surprised by the response thus far; in the past, mixing DS & SJ has been like oil & water. I'm just happy that I found a means to do so that seems to satisfy, at least somewhat, both camps
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Working on the formatting to get it up on my site in the article section as we speak.
I really like this.
Thanks! A SJ article on a DS-devote site...I think that might be a first! :D
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Thanks! A SJ article on a DS-devote site...I think that might be a first! :D
It's up!
http://www.crimsonsun.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=197
Also found this as well:
http://sj.darkwood.org/dboard/xover/Darksun.html
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
It's up!
http://www.crimsonsun.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=197
Also found this as well:
http://sj.darkwood.org/dboard/xover/Darksun.html
Looks good! I did find one small error: In the Sextant (the planet), looks like the Shard Islands got overwritten a bit...the descriptive paragraph is missing and the Verdant Stones run right into it. Other than that, looks great! :D
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Fight nice, children, or you'll be sent to your rooms after an old fashion lightning zap to the rear.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I can't believe this debate is going on.
Oh the humanity!
Why don't we just ignore War Overlord's ramblings about this eh?
Cause obviously this is getting no where fast and is no longer amusing.
At least for me.
Originally posted by Nightdruid
It's kinda like a fatal carwreck...you know its horrible, but you just can't advert your eyes...
Of course, none of this relates to the Crimson Sphere itself in any way
Ok, ok. I'll leave him alone, and play "Ignore WarOverlord" as well. The arguement has gotten to be rather stale anyway, and it does detract from NightDruid's post. Sorry.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Ok, ok. I'll leave him alone, and play "Ignore WarOverlord" as well. The arguement has gotten to be rather stale anyway, and it does detract from NightDruid's post. Sorry.
Don't sweat it...I know the feeling ;)Anyways, your input was quite helpful! I believe the article was better for it
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Ok, ok. I'll leave him alone, and play "Ignore WarOverlord" as well. The arguement has gotten to be rather stale anyway, and it does detract from NightDruid's post. Sorry.
You aren't bothering me.
I Stumbled across a site called "Burnt World of Athas" that claims to be Official and endorsed by WOTSC earlier today.
I looked through the resources and there was no mention of Spelljamming being allowed in Darksun, nor is there anything about the "Lifemasters" or pre-"Blue Age".
Some of the Literature, and Game sessions there as well as some of the "Official Updates" including 3 ed Conversions got me thinking that perhaps I stumbled upon a book belonging a Individual Athas Fanatic or maybe a group of Athas Fanatics that had the money, energy, resources and maybe a little too much time to make such a Project that included the "Lifemasters" storyline and History in their version of Athas' past in a offical looking book
Cool stuff, but Unless somebody is making a Dark Sun Module for Neverwinter Nights I am not interested in the P&P technical aspects.
These guys look pretty cool http://www.darksunonline.org/
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Looks good! I did find one small error: In the Sextant (the planet), looks like the Shard Islands got overwritten a bit...the descriptive paragraph is missing and the Verdant Stones run right into it. Other than that, looks great! :D
Ok, found the issue on that, had a tag in there wrong and no line break.
Should be ok now.
Let me know if you see any other issues.
Danke.
Looks good; figured it was something that simple (I do it all the time at work ;) )Some of the Literature, and Game sessions there as well as some of the "Official Updates" including 3 ed Conversions got me thinking that perhaps I stumbled upon a book belonging a Individual Athas Fanatic or maybe a group of Athas Fanatics that had the money, energy, resources and maybe a little too much time to make such a Project that included the "Lifemasters" storyline and History in their version of Athas' past in a offical looking book
ARTHUR: "Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left."
BLACK KNIGHT: "Yes I have."
ARTHUR: "Look!"
BLACK KNIGHT: "Just a flesh wound."
I Stumbled across a site called "Burnt World of Athas" that claims to be Official and endorsed by WOTSC earlier today.
*has a vision of Xlorep and WarOverlord*
"Bring out yer dead"
think you're being too kind...
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
ARTHUR: "Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left."
BLACK KNIGHT: "Yes I have."
ARTHUR: "Look!"
BLACK KNIGHT: "Just a flesh wound."
Well Monty Python is hardly "official" Either is it :D
I am "the Gold Knight" for future cartoony reference
Like the site and the work done such as the Tyrian Conspiracy.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
*has a vision of Xlorep and WarOverlord*
"Bring out yer dead"
Well as someone that plays a Deathslayer I don't care much for undead.
Will a army of Golems and psionically animated object do?
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Ok, found the issue on that, had a tag in there wrong and no line break.
Should be ok now.
Let me know if you see any other issues.
Danke.
The Map Rocks :D
Well Monty Python is hardly "official" Either is it
I'm just summarizing the discussion.
Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Like the site and the work done such as the Tyrian Conspiracy.
Noted. Thanks.
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