Hyperdrive would work this way. Starships would accelerate at 1-g out of the system for 7 days at which point the ship engages the hyperdrive engine - which opens up a temporary wormhole into hyperspace, from that point the ship uses its antimatter engines to accelerate a continuous 1-g into that wormhole and into hyperspace. 1 day's accelerattion would bring the ship 1 light year, 2 days 4 light years, 3 days would take it 9 light years and so on, a wormhole can only open up about a weeks journey outside of the system, otherwise the ship can't get into or out of hyperspace. Distances are much shorter in hyperspace.
For modern and futuristic personal weapondry, the attacker rolls against the opponent's reflex score instead of his AC and armor subtracts damage instead of reducing the chance to hit.
And, honestly, if you think a 4E variant will 'give Traveller a run for its money', you don't really know Traveller or its fans.
Star Frontiers won't come out because WotC has Star Wars.
And, honestly, if you think a 4E variant will 'give Traveller a run for its money', you don't really know Traveller or its fans.
Star Wars is setting Specific, Traveller is setting specific, Dungeons and Dragons is not. What I'm talking about is a science fiction equivalent to Dungeons and Dragons, I think Star Frontiers comes pretty close to that. It doesn't detail how the people came to the frontier, there is no detail on Earth, in fact it says they developed independently whatever that means. I like the fact that the science if fairly hard in Star Frontiers, having starships powered by atomic engines using uranium is technically unrealistic, but starships generally accelerate for half the distance and then slow down, space combat is fairly realistic in that regard as you half to keep track of each object velocity as you decide where next to accelerate.
In Star Wars spaceship fly like airplanes, in fact a blind person could fly an X-Wing fighter because he could hear the unique scream of the Tie Fighter's twin ion engines as it approaches, and if his hearing is very good, he could approximate the general location of that tie fighter through sound alone. Spaceships bank and roll and get into dogfights just like World War II aircraft do, for the pure science fiction fan, there is alot wrong with this.
Traveller is a little better than Star Wars in that ships accelerate and then decelerate and you have to keep track of each ship's velocity as you apply acceleration, but then there is something called artificial gravity - Star Frontiers doesn't have that, if you want to remain on the floor or the rear wall of the spaceship in Star Frontiers, you have to accelerate that space ship. Another thing is that Traveller has this Imperium thing going. I think RPGers would like a game that doesn't impose a setting on you so you can make up you own. The area of the Star Frontiers game is rather small, just like in D&D, all the official stuff can occur in that area, outside that area its whatever the GM wants, and he can apply his creativity to its maximum. Another problem is that Traveller is 2 dimensional, all of its star systems are lined up in a plane. If one were to look up in the night sky on a Traveller planet, he would see a line of stars arcing across the sky with nothing above it and nothing below it, just pure inky blackness. Star Frontiers doesn't try to map an entire arm of a galaxy, there are not enough stars in the official map to make 3d mapping difficult, you basically have a box that's full of stars and the GM can add anything he wants outside that box.
I think we could use a generic space-oriented science fiction RPG, and if people can't handle keeping track of a spaceship's velocity, they can play Star Wars, and try to imitate the screaming sound of a Tie fighter as it swooshes past the Millenium Falcon.
To be honest, I would much rather see a re-release of Gamma World. :D
Me too, its a good way to introduce science fiction to D&Ders as the premise is very similar, adventurers exploring dungeons or ruins, fighting monsters, and gaining treasure, it is just that in GammaWorld the Monsters are mutants or robots and the Treasure is sci-fi tech. I think it can be done in a way such that the weapons used in Star Frontiers and GammaWorld are much the same.
My guess is that the licensing terms for Star Wars requires them to operate on very thin profit margins for the RPG. Why would they want to cannibalize sales on the Star Wars line with a Star Frontiers product?
Because the two are not direct compeditors. Star Wars is science Fantasy, with the emphasis on the Fantasy part. Star Frontiers is more science fiction, it tries to get the science mostly right. Spaceships behave like spaceships, not airplanes! My only quibble with Star Frontiers is they used atomic fission rockets to accelerate their ships to 1% of the speed of light, at which point upon attaining this velocity they mysteriously slipped into the void, a kind of otherspace in which the distances between stars was less. I'd switch the fission reactors to antimatter engines, each ship would have a built-in years supply of antimatter, and they'd have to scoop up water or hydrogen to have thrust up to 1% of the speed of light, a 1 week's journey at which point they would reach the minimum distance from the star in which they could activate the hyperdrive, any closer to the star and the hyperdrive just doesn't work. The hyperdrive opens up a wormhole into the void, the void is just like regular space except there are no stars in it, it is pure emptiness, this universe is smaller than the regular universe, but also every point in it is coterminous with a point in the real universe, so starships use their antimatter engines to accelerate inside this void. a 1 day's acceleration/deceleration will bring the ship 1 light year once it left the void, 2 days acceleration/deceleration will bring it 4 light years, the rule is the square of the time spent accelerating/decelerating in days is the distance covered in light years. Most starships can accelerate for 15 to 20 days at 1g, 14 of those days are spend accelerating to 1% of light speed to activate the hyperdrive and slowing down in real space again, this leave about 1 to 6 days of acceleration. for a maximum distance of 36 light years covered in the void before running out of reaction mass (water).
Missiles will be launched that will seek out enemy targets and close in on them exploding only when they are within a blast radius of the enemy or directly impacting with them, that is the reality of space combat. We don't really need simulated World War II combat in space because that's not really what its going to be, and it is a shame when we assume that people in the 21st century are actually dumber than people who played RPGs in the late 1970s and early 80s.
You see Star Wars doesn't cover the hard science fiction gamut, Star Frontiers covers this better, the two aren't really compeditors anymore that Star Frontiers competes with Dungeons and Dragons.
Star Frontiers won't come out because WotC has Star Wars.
And also the fact that it totally sucked.
The material appears to be permissable by WotC. For anyone interested however, there's some detail on the legal snarls, provided here.
Bring back any memories?
And also the fact that it totally sucked.
I have just the opposite opinion of Star Wars under WotC. It sucks! I can't help but snicker out loud every time I see stats for Han Solo as a 5th level Scoundrel ;).
I still play Star Wars but it's the d6 system (under West End Games). Too bad it's only whenever some old-time gaming buddies and I can manage to get together (once or twice a year at most).
Ramblings
We first played back in '87 (when the d6 rules first came out). When I go to Michigan to see dad, I try to join a game whenever I can. These guys helped make high school bearable for me.
We played during study hall, Star Frontiers some, but mostly Classic D&D; that is, before the DM introduced us to 2nd edition AD&D in '89. "It's so simple now, even you guys can understand it!" :P Some things never change, it seems.
We played during study hall, Star Frontiers some, but mostly Classic D&D; that is, before the DM introduced us to 2nd edition AD&D in '89. "It's so simple now, even you guys can understand it!" :P Some things never change, it seems.
Because the two are not direct compeditors. Star Wars is science Fantasy, with the emphasis on the Fantasy part. Star Frontiers is more science fiction, it tries to get the science mostly right.
I think you overestimate the Suits at WotC's ability to make that distinction. To the corporate bosses, one space game is the same as another. Why divert sales from the Star Wars line into some generic space game? You have to think like a mid-level manager here, not a gamer.
I think you overestimate the Suits at WotC's ability to make that distinction. To the corporate bosses, one space game is the same as another. Why divert sales from the Star Wars line into some generic space game? You have to think like a mid-level manager here, not a gamer.
Star Wars is a fading star, its last movie has been produced, maybe George Lucas has plans to produce some cartoons but that's it! Hows that? The advantage of Star Frontiers is that its generic and Star Wars is not. I don't want to have to limit my imagination to the Star Wars Universe! Generic seems to be the direction the design team has been going with Dungeons and Dragons, I figure that following the same design philosophy Star Frontiers better reflects this trend than Star Wars.
Star Wars basically mixes fantasy with science fiction. The science fiction part is really so much technobabble, it really doesn't mean much other than to sound scientific to the uneducated. For instance the Tie Fighter, "Tie" stands for "twin ion engines" there is something called an ion engine, it has very little thrust, produced as much thrust as a single sheet of paper on the table top, the weight of that paper is how much thrust an ion engine is likely to produce, that said an ion engine is not really suitable propulsion for a space fighter, they'll just sit their accelerating very slowly and the X-Wings will just pick them off one-by-one as these TIEs won't be able to evade since they only have ion engines to maneuver with and they're powered by solar panels besides.
The real reason TIE fighters use Ion engines is because they sound "cool" and they uneducated can really dig it because it sounds new and scientifical. Star Wars is basically "technojargon technojargon," then somebody ignites his light saber and there is a sword fight, and then some more technojargon. The technojargon is ultimately meaningless. It would be nice if the players might actually learn something about science by playing a SF RPG.
Star Frontiers has less wrong with it that Star Wars, its rockets basically behave as rockets, atomic fission is not energetic enough to give those Star Frontiers rockets the performance they have, I figure switching them to antimatter and alot of water for propellent would give rockets the capability to accelerate to 1% of the speed of light, the distance from the sun after 1 week of acceleration at 1g is basically out past the orbit of Saturn, the basic purpose is to achieve this distance in the minimum amount of time while providing a comfortable 1g environment inside the spaceship.
You accelerate at 1g for a week, then you enter the void, accelerate some more then decelerate, exit the void and you slow down at 1g for 7 more days while approaching your destination. Use some device such as zero-point energy to activate the hyperdrive and assume zero-point energy only works at this distance from the Sun, you have no means of storing it, so you need some other fuel source such as antimatter to get you out there so you can activate the hyperdrive with the zero-point energy source.
Ships have typically a year's supply of antimatter so only need to refuel with this stuff once per year, however you need to refuel with water after every trip as this takes up the most space while the antimatter requires little, the remanider of space aboard the ship is you cargo, crew, and passenger accomodations. The antimatter supply is very secure, its container is much tougher than the ship its in, you basically have to destroy the entire ship before you can get an antimatter containment breach, even so, most ships aren't allowed anywhere near a city or populated area, they park in orbit and a shuttle ferrys supplies and passengers to it from ground to orbit and back down again, the main exception to this rule are scout vessels, which are operated by the military.
It would be better for the gaming community if someone had the money to buy the IP for Star Frontiers, Top Secret and Alternity and develop it independently of WotC. At least then there would be a chance of getting it out of "development hell."
It is sad that it seems that RPGs have to be Hollywood derivatives these days. There could be a Star Frontiers version of Star Wars for example if they game did not attempt to simulate all the special effects and "space noise" of the movies, the whole Star Wars scene is entirely sci fi retro anyway, literary science fiction is more of an intellectual exercise than a non-stop action sci fi thriller, planet-side there's sure to be lots of action and excitement, but in space you spend most of your time looking at radar screens and when you score a hit, things blow up silently. Spaceships don't come nearly as close as they do in Star Wars.
I miss Star Frontiers very much but I am slowly accumulating material mostly off of ebay.
It would be better for the gaming community if someone had the money to buy the IP for Star Frontiers, Top Secret and Alternity and develop it independently of WotC. At least then there would be a chance of getting it out of "development hell."
That assumes WotC want to sell them. Other than letting L5R go -- which IMNSHO a very unwise move on WotC's part --they're not willing to part any of their TSR-acquired IP.
It is sad that it seems that RPGs have to be Hollywood derivatives these days.
"Have to"? Pen-n-Paper Gamers are not that dumb. :rolleye2:
We don't need Hollywood influencing what kind of "gaming world" we want to play in.
Jeesh.
Again, Star Frontiers CANNOT be released by WotC currently. It CANNOT, explicitly. It's 'not a different game', etc.. it's that LucasArts explicitly forbids WotC from doing any other science-fiction-related game PERIOD. Even d20 Future got them into hot water.
Jeesh.
Jeesh. I didn't know that :P. In that case, I'm really glad they decided to go with d20 Future in spite of things. We play it a lot more than d20 Modern; a Star*Drive campaign, getting a lot of use out of the Alternity material from years ago.
This is the Nerdiest thread i have ever seen... And I hang out on geology sites.
Welcome, fellow nerd.
That should be (more or less) on topic then.
It would be better for the gaming community if someone had the money to buy the IP for Star Frontiers, Top Secret and Alternity and develop it independently of WotC. At least then there would be a chance of getting it out of "development hell."
Top Secret brings back some good memories. James Pong, and the Sausage making place in the included adventure. :D
Again, Star Frontiers CANNOT be released by WotC currently. It CANNOT, explicitly. It's 'not a different game', etc.. it's that LucasArts explicitly forbids WotC from doing any other science-fiction-related game PERIOD. Even d20 Future got them into hot water.
Jeesh.
An assumption or have you actually read the agreement?
I wonder why the agreement wasn't fully enforced when d20 Future and d20 Future Tech came out. Though it was poorly received by fans, it still would have violate the terms of the agreement.
http://www.starfrontiers.us/
http://www.starfrontiersman.com/
It's not impossible that we might see some Star Frontiers material. All of the races were in d20 Future so there is someone at WotC who remembers it. So material might show up in Spelljammer if it is made, although very unlikely. They do have plans to do d20 modern 4e style and I would guess a d20 future would end up coming along with that.
I miss Star Frontiers very much but I am slowly accumulating material mostly off of ebay.
I think simply by adding modern equipment and a few extra character classes, skills feats and powers you could turn the D&D 4e books into a Modern game. I see they already have a mechanic that they could possibly use to deal with modern firearms, those would target a characters reflex instead of his AC, armor itself would deduct their armor value from the hit point damage inflicted by the modern firearms. Modern firearms would typically do 2 hit dice of damage while the medeaval stuff typically does 1 hit die in most cases. Medeaval unmagical armor typically has armor bonuses ranging from 1 to 10, modern armor would go from 11 to 20, all that armor tend to encumber though, if you wear anything that approaches a 20 in armor protection, your not going to be able to add much of your dexterity modifier to your reflex and AC scores. A 20 would be something like full-body armor with kelvar plates sewn into jackets and pants - hard to move very fast or far in such things. Another type of armor would be camouflage armor, simple camouflage fatigues would add a few point to one's reflex score simply by making one hard to see by the enemy, futuristic active camouflage could add quite a few more points to reflex and could make one nearly invisible - not perfectly so but at a distance a potential target wearing that stuff could be hard to spot. The movie Predator shows and example of an alien wearing this type of armor.
My point is that any modern or future materials could simply be add-ons to the current core D&D rulebooks. Plenty of third party stuff started with the D&D core rulebooks when publishing their own Superhero RPGs for instance. A book I have called Silver Age Sentinels uses the D&D 3.5 core rulebooks as their starting basis for their superhero RPG.
A Modern Setting would be an add on to D&D 4e for instance, it would be what's termed "Modern Fantasy" there is a whole section of books whose subject matter is Modern Fantasy - one famous example is J.K. Rollin Harry Potter series. Another venue are the Ann Rice Vampire Novels, they occur in the modern age as well, but of course involve magic and vampires of course. There is no reason why you can't have a non-medeaval D&D adventure, the classic Frankenstein and Dracula Novels are examples of what can be done.
Taking this one step further one can remove magic entirely and start something like Star Frontiers as yet another add-on to the D&D rules. Even Star Wars can be made as an addition to the D&D game rather than being its own seperate RPG. I can see all this happening very easily. all you really need is additional rules to deal with such things as spaceships, and blaster pistols, a light saber basically is just another type of magic sword when you really think about it.
That assumes WotC want to sell them. Other than letting L5R go -- which IMNSHO a very unwise move on WotC's part --they're not willing to part any of their TSR-acquired IP.
My opinion is "use them or lose them!" TSR has a very compelling setting in Star Frontiers, basically the setting is in my humble opinion, the spaceships, the equipment, and the Alien races, the specific planets aren't so essential to the game as the former. I also say throw in the Alternity races as well. With an Interstellar setting I say the more there is the merrier. There should be official locations where published materials are to take place in, but no product should detail the entire Star Frontiers Universe, and I would shy away from having adventures set on Earth as well, unless it occurs in a seperate Universe, such as the two Star Frontiers Modules dealing with 2001 A Space Odyssey and 2010 Odyssey Two. I think Star Frontiers ought to be very vague about future history dealing with how humans ventured into space or detailing the conditions of current society on Earth for instance. The most that should be covered is the local history of the current playing area, it is called Star Frontiers for a reason I think, and for that reason modules dealing with adventures in 27th century New York City ought not be pursued. If someone publishes their version of New York City, it would discourage someone else from establishing their own very different version of New York City, but one can always add another planet or star system on the frontier without too much trouble.
Again, Star Frontiers CANNOT be released by WotC currently. It CANNOT, explicitly. It's 'not a different game', etc.. it's that LucasArts explicitly forbids WotC from doing any other science-fiction-related game PERIOD. Even d20 Future got them into hot water.
Jeesh.
Star Wars is a fading Star. I doubt what you say is true, but if it is, it is not worth forgoing publishing other science fiction settings for the sake of holding onto the Star Wars Universe. Star Wars is not the "be all and end all" of science fiction, and neigther is Star Frontiers for that matter. Star Wars is one kind of science fiction lite with a heafty dose of fantasy thrown in, Star Frontiers is another harder sci-fi setting, it is harder than Alternity, harder than Traveller. One can turn the dial even further in the hard science fiction direction, but for me I like What Alternity has, basically some plausible gadgets and a means to travel to the stars in a reasonable amount of time. I believe their are various personal force fields as well, but the superscience is somewhat grudging and only where it needs to be to make the setting work.
I like the fact that star ships have to travel to the edge of the Star System to go interstellar rather than the 100 planetary diameters of Traveller. No artificial gravity forces some creativity in designing the floorplans of the space ships. basically spaceships have to accelerate for most of their journey at 1g, the floors of the internal decks are therefore oriented towards the stern of each ship. This also tends to mean their are alot of stairs to climb or elevators required to take you to different parts of each ship.
Star Wars is setting Specific, Traveller is setting specific, Dungeons and Dragons is not.
Traveller is not setting specific in fact. If you read LBB1-3 or the reprint you will note that it is very generic. MongooseTraveller one ups this by giving the default science and setting but also offering alternate tech so that the GM can create his own settings. a great example of this is the alternate rules for jump drives as MGT gives rules for j-drive hyper drive and a trek type FTL drive.
Artificial gravity is pretty much a standard of scifi and is scientifically feasible so does deserve to be included in a hard science game. Also as an aside Traveller allows for ship designs that do not feature artificial gravity.
Another thing is that Traveller has this Imperium thing going. I think RPGers would like a game that doesn't impose a setting on you so you can make up you own. The area of the Star Frontiers game is rather small, just like in D&D, all the official stuff can occur in that area, outside that area its whatever the GM wants, and he can apply his creativity to its maximum.
3e used greyhawk as the default setting. how is that less restrictive than a few generic references to the 3rd Imperium?
Another problem is that Traveller is 2 dimensional, all of its star systems are lined up in a plane. If one were to look up in the night sky on a Traveller planet, he would see a line of stars arcing across the sky with nothing above it and nothing below it, just pure inky blackness.
Incorrect. Traveller hexes are a measurement of distance to be sure so Rhylanor is indeed a parsec from Porozlo and Porozlo is one parsec from Jae Tellona but that does not mean they are on the same galactic plane. It only means that there is a one parsec distance from one of these systems to the next. The mapping system used in Traveller is abstract because it needs to be for playability purposes. To be fair as long as distance is known from one system to the next the maps are pretty much superfluous.
Traveller 2300 AKA 2300AD did release a map that depicted stars on the x-y-z axis but that map did not make the game one bit more playable.
Star Frontiers doesn't try to map an entire arm of a galaxy, there are not enough stars in the official map to make 3d mapping difficult, you basically have a box that's full of stars and the GM can add anything he wants outside that box.
See point above about 3d mapping and also note than the majority of maps created for D&D are 2d. Also note that I am not hacking on Star frontiers. I love that game and proudly own 2 NM box sets of the blue box. unfortunantky my knighthawks box is pretty used.
I think we could use a generic space-oriented science fiction RPG,
Have one already. It is called Traveller and the new Mongoose print is excellent!
and if people can't handle keeping track of a spaceship's velocity, they can play Star Wars, and try to imitate the screaming sound of a Tie fighter as it swooshes past the Millenium Falcon.
Well said.
1) The original material did not feature an FTL drive, it was just a pecular and henceforth unknown law of physics that any object that exceeds 1% of the speed of light slips into the Void, which was Star Frontier's version of hyperspace. While this property is a stretch, we could substitute an appropriate sounding device to get the starship into the Void as it is known rather than just having the ship slide into the Void just based on the fact that it has exceed 1% of the speed of light. A more important point is that this forces starships to approach star systems from the outside and survey the planets of the system with their long range sensors as it approaches. If ships are in the vicinity of a planet and are attacked by space pirates, they can't just make a dash out to the 100-diameter limit and disappear after activating their Jump Drive. Having jump space just 100-planetary diameters away makes it a real convenient escape outlet for starships that find themselves overmatched. In Star Frontiers such ships are forced to fight it out and take the consequences or otherwise outrun their opponents by accelerating faster, the Void is typically a 7 days journey of constant 1-G acceleration to reach from the lifezone of a typical star system.
2) Another thing that Star Frontiers doesn't have, or I don't believe it has is antigravity, there are no conveniently levitating platforms that hover silently above the ground with not apparent means of propulsion. Star Frontiers has hovercraft, it has jets, rockets, rotary-wing and fixed wing air craft. Not having a convinient "grav Vehicle" means its easier for the GM to set up planet based encounters without giving the opponents similar types of vehicles. I'd like the PCs vehicles to get stuck in the mud and in swamps every once in a while, and to have to navigate around and through hazardous terrain features rather than just fly over them willy-nilly.
3) Traveller does have an "official" game world one dealing with the Imperium, and their is an ability score associated with it called 'Social Standing' which is really just a ranking of what class in the social strata a character is in, it is heavily feudalistic or monarchistic. You have your "Lords" and "Ladies" your knights, barons, dukes, arch-dukes, earls, counts, and his majesty the Emperor or Emperess of the Imperium who sits on the Iridium Throne. It is hard to get away from this official world when writing an adventure for Traveller because everyone expects it. People want to know whether it takes place in the Imperiums, the Solomani Rim, the Spinward Marches, The Darrian Confederation, etc. To do Star Frontiers you could set up an adventure on the Frontier, Volturnus or what ever or the GM can design his own region of space this occurs in. Star Frontiers doesn't have much of an official history, certainly not as much of one as Traveller has with its three Imperiums, but a referee can make up his own history for his very own region of space and can say things occured differently here, than on the official published Frontier setting, but if later the GM wants to connect this setting to the Frontier, there is no reason he can't. He can also do a non-cannonical Earth and Solar System with its own extensive history and connect it very easily with the Frontier.
In Traveller, Earth is a very specific place called Terra, it is occupied territory, occupied by the 3rd Imperium in most classical supplements. For the most part Terrans are quite content to have Imperial troops occupy their planet, and Terra has quite an extensive "bad boy" history involving the Solomani Confederation, the 'Sol' part being named after Earth's sun. Solomani is somewhat racist and believes in the Supreamacy of the human race over other intelligent races in Charted Space. Any Terran character is going to have to overcome certain prejudices held by and about Terrans in general, and he's going to have to prove that he is not a bad fellow after all despite being a Terran, kind of like Germans often have to prove they are not like the Nazis. Now if the GM wants to portray a different "Terra" or Earth he's going to have alot of explaining to do. Star Frontiers on the otherhand has no assuptions on what the official "Earth" is like, so just about anything is possible.
An assumption or have you actually read the agreement?
Outright told by the parties involved.
I wonder why the agreement wasn't fully enforced when d20 Future and d20 Future Tech came out. Though it was poorly received by fans, it still would have violate the terms of the agreement.
Both books got WotC into trouble with Lucas. Obviously not a LOT of trouble, but it probably helped that neither had much in the way of 'story' related to it.
Both books got WotC into trouble with Lucas. Obviously not a LOT of trouble, but it probably helped that neither had much in the way of 'story' related to it.
That's because those two books were never about Star Wars. Lucasfilms don't own the term and concept of "laser sword."
I would find Lucasfilm's attitude very contradictory considering that at one time Decipher was publishing both Star Wars and Star Trek CCGs.
To be honest, I would much rather see a re-release of Gamma World. :D
Amen brother. Gamma World was my fourth RPG right after Traveller (first) and Empire of The Petal Throne (Second) then D&D. Actually EOTPT and D&D were simultaneous but I digress. Some where in all the boxes of game boxes in my basement is my copy of Star Frontiers but I never actually played a single session.
Amen brother. Gamma World was my fourth RPG right after Traveller (first) and Empire of The Petal Throne (Second) then D&D. Actually EOTPT and D&D were simultaneous but I digress. Some where in all the boxes of game boxes in my basement is my copy of Star Frontiers but I never actually played a single session.
Why not bring them both back at the same time? Make Gamma World a part of Star Frontiers.
The heirarchy would be as follows
First you have Dungeons and Dragons Core rulebooks
Then you have a Supplement called Star Frontiers which adds to the D&D core rulebooks with new equipment, skills, feats, and character classes as well as rules for starships and space travel.
Then you have Gamma World which is a supplement of Star Frontiers, has the same personal equipment and also utilizes the equipment from the D&D player's handbook, add a few more items such as primitive firearms, shotguns, muskets, throw in some mutants and mutant powers and your ready to rock n' roll!
This doesn't imply necessarily that Gamma World and the Frontier have to exist in the same game universe, but there is no reason why they couldn't either. Perhaps a Star Frontiers starship could visit Gamma Earth. Basically all Star Frontiers does is supply the science fiction equipment that PCs find on Gamma World, but I think the same rules set could be used in both settings.
I would find Lucasfilm's attitude very contradictory considering that at one time Decipher was publishing both Star Wars and Star Trek CCGs.
But that's actually why Decipher lost the Star Wars CCG. :S
Star Wars is a fading star, its last movie has been produced, maybe George Lucas has plans to produce some cartoons but that's it! Hows that? The advantage of Star Frontiers is that its generic and Star Wars is not. I don't want to have to limit my imagination to the Star Wars Universe! Generic seems to be the direction the design team has been going with Dungeons and Dragons, I figure that following the same design philosophy Star Frontiers better reflects this trend than Star Wars.
Star Wars basically mixes fantasy with science fiction. The science fiction part is really so much technobabble, it really doesn't mean much other than to sound scientific to the uneducated. For instance the Tie Fighter, "Tie" stands for "twin ion engines" there is something called an ion engine, it has very little thrust, produced as much thrust as a single sheet of paper on the table top, the weight of that paper is how much thrust an ion engine is likely to produce, that said an ion engine is not really suitable propulsion for a space fighter, they'll just sit their accelerating very slowly and the X-Wings will just pick them off one-by-one as these TIEs won't be able to evade since they only have ion engines to maneuver with and they're powered by solar panels besides.
The real reason TIE fighters use Ion engines is because they sound "cool" and they uneducated can really dig it because it sounds new and scientifical. Star Wars is basically "technojargon technojargon," then somebody ignites his light saber and there is a sword fight, and then some more technojargon. The technojargon is ultimately meaningless. It would be nice if the players might actually learn something about science by playing a SF RPG.
Star Wars is Anything BUT a fading star. What has been one of the most anticipated games of 2008? Force Unleashed. Star Wars is going to be around for a very long time, and you will most likely see a TV show of Star Wars soon.
Second.
Star Wars is NOT IN ANYWAY about science. It is all FANTASY. They do not describe the engineering phenomenon in STAR WARS so the uneducated think it is science. In the world of star wars it just so happens that ion propulsion is surprisingly efficient. It is how that FANTASY world operates. Generally Star Wars fans do not like the movies/games for SCIENCE they like it for STAR WARS.
A comparison of Star Wars to Star Frontiers is apples to oranges. Star Wars is just as much fantasy as Dungeons and Dragons. It is as much science fiction as Lord of the Rings.
Star Frontiers has less wrong with it that Star Wars, its rockets basically behave as rockets, atomic fission is not energetic enough to give those Star Frontiers rockets the performance they have, I figure switching them to antimatter and alot of water for propellent would give rockets the capability to accelerate to 1% of the speed of light, the distance from the sun after 1 week of acceleration at 1g is basically out past the orbit of Saturn, the basic purpose is to achieve this distance in the minimum amount of time while providing a comfortable 1g environment inside the spaceship.
I am a Molecular Biologist, and if there is ANYTHING star wars can be picked on for is its ridiculous Life Forms. EVERY sci fi game is subject to the harping criticism of techno fans like myself. That is why Star Wars is beautiful. There is no science on which to pick.
Star Frontiers does NOT have less wrong with it than Star Wars. That is like saying Star Frontiers has less wrong with it than Dungeons and Dragons.
A peach has less wrong with it than a Pineapple.
Fact of the matter is the market is too thin. Star Wars is a licensed product that will sell a hell of alot more than star frontiers would anyday (I liked Star Frontiers ALOT and have a homebrew campaign mixing Far future Mass Effect world with Elements from Star Frontiers and Alternity). WOTC just would not be serving their time well with Star Frontiers.
ANyway use the old system. I liked the old SF system, though it is too limiting for what I want to do with MAss Effect.
I ultimately however like Star Wars more, and would rather have a Star Wars RPG than a sci fi RPG that incorporates all the latest theories, yet could still be picked apart like a road kill for all its inaccuracies.
Why not bring them both back at the same time? Make Gamma World a part of Star Frontiers.
The heirarchy would be as follows
First you have Dungeons and Dragons Core rulebooks
Then you have a Supplement called Star Frontiers which adds to the D&D core rulebooks with new equipment, skills, feats, and character classes as well as rules for starships and space travel.
Then you have Gamma World which is a supplement of Star Frontiers, has the same personal equipment and also utilizes the equipment from the D&D player's handbook, add a few more items such as primitive firearms, shotguns, muskets, throw in some mutants and mutant powers and your ready to rock n' roll!
This doesn't imply necessarily that Gamma World and the Frontier have to exist in the same game universe, but there is no reason why they couldn't either. Perhaps a Star Frontiers starship could visit Gamma Earth. Basically all Star Frontiers does is supply the science fiction equipment that PCs find on Gamma World, but I think the same rules set could be used in both settings.
Sorry for the double post...
I really just do not think that Star Frontiers or any sci fi game would be served well with the D&D 4th edition. Remember SW SAGA is fantasy, its setting is just space instead of some magic continent.
I think an independent publisher could do much more with a new system. Alternity I think perhaps was the prototype of d20, but the only thing that really worked about ALternity was the skill system. I think a good sci fi game must stress a skill system.
Star Wars is Anything BUT a fading star. What has been one of the most anticipated games of 2008? Force Unleashed. Star Wars is going to be around for a very long time, and you will most likely see a TV show of Star Wars soon.
Second.
Star Wars is NOT IN ANYWAY about science. It is all FANTASY. They do not describe the engineering phenomenon in STAR WARS so the uneducated think it is science. In the world of star wars it just so happens that ion propulsion is surprisingly efficient. It is how that FANTASY world operates. Generally Star Wars fans do not like the movies/games for SCIENCE they like it for STAR WARS.
A comparison of Star Wars to Star Frontiers is apples to oranges. Star Wars is just as much fantasy as Dungeons and Dragons.
But if what TFVanguard say is true, then someone ought to tell Lucasfilm to back off if WotC wants to do a futuristic campaign setting (or two) that have no relations to Star Wars.
And you wonder why I hate product licensing.
-Tom Cruise
Tom, I get this distinct feeling you don't like Star Wars Saga. That's fine and all. And all of the writers, the actors, the players, and the GMs don't mind that. They know that it's more fantasy than science fiction. And that's how they like it.
That's how I like it.
As much fun as applying real physics to a game is, it's boring. I'd rather play a teddy bear with a lightsaber than map out trajectories, the velocity of missiles, and pull out all of my physics notes just so I can send the powers that be complaints because they weren't using the actual astrophysics equations as a backdrop for the rules.
Seriously, these are games.
Saga will survive because it has a healthy fanbase. It will not attract many customers like DnD does, because it doesn't produce the quantity of books. It has a television and a cartoon series going for it.
And get this: You could technically say, "To Hell with this!" And say the galaxy was wiped out, there is no force, and lightsabers were a lie. And play.
Star Wars is Anything BUT a fading star. What has been one of the most anticipated games of 2008? Force Unleashed. Star Wars is going to be around for a very long time, and you will most likely see a TV show of Star Wars soon.
Second.
Star Wars is NOT IN ANYWAY about science. It is all FANTASY. They do not describe the engineering phenomenon in STAR WARS so the uneducated think it is science. In the world of star wars it just so happens that ion propulsion is surprisingly efficient. It is how that FANTASY world operates. Generally Star Wars fans do not like the movies/games for SCIENCE they like it for STAR WARS.
A comparison of Star Wars to Star Frontiers is apples to oranges. Star Wars is just as much fantasy as Dungeons and Dragons. It is as much science fiction as Lord of the Rings.
I am a Molecular Biologist, and if there is ANYTHING star wars can be picked on for is its ridiculous Life Forms. EVERY sci fi game is subject to the harping criticism of techno fans like myself. That is why Star Wars is beautiful. There is no science on which to pick.
Star Frontiers does NOT have less wrong with it than Star Wars. That is like saying Star Frontiers has less wrong with it than Dungeons and Dragons.
A peach has less wrong with it than a Pineapple.
Fact of the matter is the market is too thin. Star Wars is a licensed product that will sell a hell of alot more than star frontiers would anyday (I liked Star Frontiers ALOT and have a homebrew campaign mixing Far future Mass Effect world with Elements from Star Frontiers and Alternity). WOTC just would not be serving their time well with Star Frontiers.
ANyway use the old system. I liked the old SF system, though it is too limiting for what I want to do with MAss Effect.
I ultimately however like Star Wars more, and would rather have a Star Wars RPG than a sci fi RPG that incorporates all the latest theories, yet could still be picked apart like a road kill for all its inaccuracies.
That's kind of like saying, "The oil will take at least 5 years to get to market, so therefore don't drill!" Let me see if I'm getting this right, so your saying that Star Wars is deliberately inaccurate so its critics won't pick it apart for scientific inaccuracies.
I think science fiction can be interesting without sound effects in space or analog spacecraft that fly like World War II fighters. If this was the World depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey, a world where space travel was relatively more routine than it is now, then Star Wars wouldn't fly - It would be like depicting steam-powered aircraft with paddle-wheels and a whole crew stoking coal into the airplane's furnaces by comparison. It is hard to get the point across that Space is not the ocean of yesteryear, nor is it the skies of World War II, the rules for movement in space are different from sailing ships and also from piston-driven aircraft in the skies above Great Britian. There are Three Laws of Motion described by Newton which go a long way towards describing motion in space. An object in motion will tend to stay in motion and and object at rest will stay at rest, and objects will continue movement at a constant rate of speed in a straight line unless a force is acted upon them. These are basic elementary laws of motion, not so very hard to describe. The fact that we live in an atmosphere where their is friction and air resistance and the fact that we can push upon this air and do barrel rolls and loop de loops, does not mean that spaceships can do the same thing in outer space. I think Star Wars is not one size fits all, people have been saying that we don't need a science fiction RPG because we already have Star Wars, and that Star Wars is our nitch for the science fiction market and if we have that we don't need anything else. I think science fiction can be interesting without pretending that spacecraft can operate like airplanes in the sky and make noise. playing an RPG is more of an intellectual exercise than watching a movie. I think we don't need hair pin turns and screaming sound effects for an Science Fiction RPG as the fans demand for Star Wars, because as we know, combat in RPGs is not heart pounding or pulse driven, it actually takes a long time to roll those dice and decide upon a character's actions based on an array of choices presented to him on a piece of paper. firing a few laser bolts takes longer on paper than watching it on the movie screen, therefore we can allow for more scientific accuracies than would be possible in a Hollywood film.
"Tom-...Tom-...-Tom you're glib!"
-Tom Cruise
Tom, I get this distinct feeling you don't like Star Wars Saga. That's fine and all. And all of the writers, the actors, the players, and the GMs don't mind that. They know that it's more fantasy than science fiction. And that's how they like it.
That's how I like it.
As much fun as applying real physics to a game is, it's boring. I'd rather play a teddy bear with a lightsaber than map out trajectories, the velocity of missiles, and pull out all of my physics notes just so I can send the powers that be complaints because they weren't using the actual astrophysics equations as a backdrop for the rules.
Seriously, these are games.
Saga will survive because it has a healthy fanbase. It will not attract many customers like DnD does, because it doesn't produce the quantity of books. It has a television and a cartoon series going for it.
And get this: You could technically say, "To Hell with this!" And say the galaxy was wiped out, there is no force, and lightsabers were a lie. And play.
My, you make science sound hard! The three laws of motion are complicated and too complicated to describe to anyone who doesn't have a degree in advanced physics. Actually Newton's Three Laws are elementary physics and are taught in High School. For some people seeing a rocket ship flying backwards as it approaches a planet while slowing down looks just plane wrong, "Airplanes don't do that!" is the common objection, so instead of trying to explain the law of physics to these objectors, the Hollywood producers just make their spaceships fly like airplanes to keep those people who expect everything to fly like an airplane happy.
"We all see those airplanes taking off and landing at air ports, and we all can deduce the laws of physics by watching those airplanes move. For instance an airplane banks left when it turns left - so therefore all objects must bank left when turning left is rule #1. Rule number two comes from watching airplanes lower their flaps when slowing down to come for a landing, so therefore Rule #2 is All objects must lower their flaps when coming in for a landing. Rule number three comes from watching those airplane duels in the skies above Great Britian During World War II because as everyone knows, the best place to fire at your enemy is in his rear because all guns only fire forward, so therefore you have to get into a loop de loop and pull the tighter curve to get behind your enemy's engines so he can't see you and fire in his rear, and that is rule #3 for the Hollywood laws of motion, and as you can see they are quite different from Sir Isaac Newton's.
http://starfrontiers.us/
http://www.starfrontiersman.com/
Have fun
That's kind of like saying, "The oil will take at least 5 years to get to market, so therefore don't drill!" Let me see if I'm getting this right, so your saying that Star Wars is deliberately inaccurate so its critics won't pick it apart for scientific inaccuracies.
No I am saying Star Wars is NOT science fiction so it does not have to be scientifically accurate. Star Wars is not a sci fi game, it is a fantasy game set in a specific setting.
I think science fiction can be interesting without sound effects in space or analog spacecraft that fly like World War II fighters. If this was the World depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey, a world where space travel was relatively more routine than it is now, then Star Wars wouldn't fly - It would be like depicting steam-powered aircraft with paddle-wheels and a whole crew stoking coal into the airplane's furnaces by comparison.
Tom I am not even disagreeing with you. 2001 was a FANTASTIC movie becasue ti is the SCI FI I like. Star Wars had a different reason for being created than 2001. Star Wars was an environment created around a story. 2001 was a story created in the environment. 2001 is vastly more accurate than Star Wars. What movie do people know of more? Even though 2001 had a much more well known director at the time, STAR WARS was the groundbreaking movie.
It is hard to get the point across that Space is not the ocean of yesteryear, nor is it the skies of World War II, the rules for movement in space are different from sailing ships and also from piston-driven aircraft in the skies above Great Britian. There are Three Laws of Motion described by Newton which go a long way towards describing motion in space. An object in motion will tend to stay in motion and and object at rest will stay at rest, and objects will continue movement at a constant rate of speed in a straight line unless a force is acted upon them. These are basic elementary laws of motion, not so very hard to describe. The fact that we live in an atmosphere where their is friction and air resistance and the fact that we can push upon this air and do barrel rolls and loop de loops, does not mean that spaceships can do the same thing in outer space.
George Lucas' space is fantasy space. I mean can you really slam a twin ion engine fighter that makes a sound in space (Incidentally the same sound that a throwing knife makes according to XENA: Warrior Princess), when an asteroid with no atmosphere and low gravity contains a space slug that three spacers are able to venture out into with only a rebreather? I agree with you, but slamming star wars for not being science is like slamming a melon for not tasting like a lemon. It is not supposed to be scientific.
I think Star Wars is not one size fits all, people have been saying that we don't need a science fiction RPG because we already have Star Wars, and that Star Wars is our nitch for the science fiction market and if we have that we don't need anything else.
I am certainly NOT saying that STAR WARS is the niche for sci fi roleplaying games. In fact I have only said it is merely another shade of fantasy. Here you have an argument: Yes a good Niche sci fi game would be fantastic, and it certainly is NOT star wars. There are some on the market. I do not however think it in WOTC's interest to make a new sci fi game. RPG's are a niche market to begin with. Star Wars sells much less than D&D. A new sci fi game just WOULD sell less than Star wars (yes I could be wrong). It would not fit with WOTC's resources to research and develop this game.
I think science fiction can be interesting without pretending that spacecraft can operate like airplanes in the sky and make noise. playing an RPG is more of an intellectual exercise than watching a movie. I think we don't need hair pin turns and screaming sound effects for an Science Fiction RPG as the fans demand for Star Wars, because as we know, combat in RPGs is not heart pounding or pulse driven, it actually takes a long time to roll those dice and decide upon a character's actions based on an array of choices presented to him on a piece of paper. firing a few laser bolts takes longer on paper than watching it on the movie screen, therefore we can allow for more scientific accuracies than would be possible in a Hollywood film.
Everything you said here I agree with 100%. Now make it worthwhile for WOTC to produce such a game. You won't. They barely produce enough for Star Wars. I play Star Wars because I like the SETTING and the Films. I would NEVER use STAR WARS as a sci fi rules set.
Pick up the HERO system or something. Build a good sci fi world around it. Maybe even publish it and get a slice of the RPG niche. That slice though is too small for WOTC to research and develop.
If they DID research it and make it good though, I would be the first one to buy it.
My, you make science sound hard! The three laws of motion are complicated and too complicated to describe to anyone who doesn't have a degree in advanced physics. Actually Newton's Three Laws are elementary physics and are taught in High School. For some people seeing a rocket ship flying backwards as it approaches a planet while slowing down looks just plane wrong, "Airplanes don't do that!" is the common objection, so instead of trying to explain the law of physics to these objectors, the Hollywood producers just make their spaceships fly like airplanes to keep those people who expect everything to fly like an airplane happy.
This is not a new complaint. Hollywood dumbs everything down. They have to. WHY? Because STAR WARS sells better than 2001. Because the vast majority of people don't want to think when they are watching a movie, so the rest of us must suffer because we cannot make the proper movie on our own. Movies that are smart will sell, but they will not make lots of money.
Carl Sagan's biggest complaint was that sci fi movies do not teach science, and it was his objection to Star Trek as well. We have not moved forward on that front. The vast majority of people (think everyday joe worker, soccer moms, grandparents) don't want the physics lesson. They are happier existing in their niche. That is just the way it goes. SO the rest of us that understand science will make due with what we have.
SO the rest of us that understand science will make due with what we have.
Or maybe all the rest of us DO understand science, but after work, and school, and bills, and kids, and responsibilities, we just want to sit down and have a good time being entertained. Theres something to be said for just sitting down, turning your brain off, and having a good time every once in a while.
This is not a new complaint. Hollywood dumbs everything down. They have to. WHY? Because STAR WARS sells better than 2001. Because the vast majority of people don't want to think when they are watching a movie, so the rest of us must suffer because we cannot make the proper movie on our own. Movies that are smart will sell, but they will not make lots of money.
Carl Sagan's biggest complaint was that sci fi movies do not teach science, and it was his objection to Star Trek as well. We have not moved forward on that front. The vast majority of people (think everyday joe worker, soccer moms, grandparents) don't want the physics lesson. They are happier existing in their niche. That is just the way it goes. SO the rest of us that understand science will make due with what we have.
What does this say about our society of today. Star Frontiers did sell in the 1980s. I remember playing the Knight Hawks game, having to keep track of each spaceship's velocity on the board, and adding acceleration vectors to each velocity vector to adjust the course of each ship. Apparently TSR back then thought its readers could grasp this simple concept. I wonder what the people playing that game then thought what the people of their future in 2008 would be? Surely, they'd reason, the society of 2008 AD would be more scientifically advanced than their primitive one of 1981 where they've only then just begun with the launch of the Space Shuttle Columbia which then promised to open up the space frontier to the more common traveler, or at least so said the NASA propaganda leading up to that year. Now if that gamer of 1981 were to step into a time machine and suddenly arrive in 2008, boy would he be surprised! Total lack of future shock, the popular media of 2008 is even dumber than the one he was used to in 1981, there was this dumb game where spaceships move on the board like characters in a room and make sudden right turns, stop and suddenly reverse themselves, not to mention the fact that there were five more sequels to the spaceships as airplanes movie Star Wars.
I would like to think that the people of 2008 are more informed than the "average Joe" of 1981 or even 1967. One can say that even the classic Star Trek didn't have sound in space, there was no roar of Warp engines, now there is, the Hollywood producers of the later movies and shows felt obligated to add them because Star Wars had them. I had hoped we'd be much farther along in space by now than we are. Having dumb science fiction suceed where more intelligent science fiction fails just rubs my nose in it.
I'll tell you my attraction to the Star Frontiers game, since it applied the laws of physics more and portrayed a more realistic universe, it spurred the imagination and let people imagine the day when we actually can travel in space. You see in 20 or maybe 30 years perhaps we will someday go into space, we will never cast a spell or get into a light saber duel, but space ship travel is not fantasy. or at least the sort of spaceships portrayed in Star Frontiers is not as much fantasy as the Star Wars spaceships. So if anything portrays space travel, I'd like them to get the concept right, because traveling is space is not Tolkein's Middle Earth. I was hoping that by the 21st century we wouldn't be dumber than we were in the 1970s, and the publication of this dumb stuff and having the uneducated and ill-imformed public eat it all up is really an embarrasment, because I actually came from the 1970s!
I would like to think that the people of 2008 are more informed than the "average Joe" of 1981 or even 1967. One can say that even the classic Star Trek didn't have sound in space, there was no roar of Warp engines, now there is, the Hollywood producers of the later movies and shows felt obligated to add them because Star Wars had them. I had hoped we'd be much farther along in space by now than we are. Having dumb science fiction suceed where more intelligent science fiction fails just rubs my nose in it.
The problem is not with the "average Joe" but with the "average Gamer".
Back in the early days of gaming, the people who played games were the ones who had backgrounds that meshed with the themes of games.
If you played D&D, the suggested reading list in the DMG had what was already on your bookshelf, not what you should go out and buy. These days you are lucky to find gamers who even know there were any fantasy books written before The Wheel of Time other than the Lord of the Rings.
Likewise RPG players originally came from the ranks of tabletop miniature gamers. Figuring out vector trails was a minor task for them. These days you are lucky to find gamers who even know what acceleration and velocity vectors are, let alone care about them.
To a large degree this is what WotC wants. Look at some of the statements about 4E. They no longer want to market to the "geek" crowd. We are too small a group, with too many divergent interests, and to a large degree, too much creativity that causes us to make our own supplements rather than buy theirs. Instead they want Joe Couch Potato, wandering down the street with his buddies, getting distracted from hanging out, and deciding to spontaneously play D&D online instead of fiddling about with another flash game they found on a random link.
These days you are lucky to find gamers who even know there were any fantasy books written before The Wheel of Time other than the Lord of the Rings.
Oh, don't even give them THAT much credit, I've repeatedly heard how Peter Jackson ripped off D&D and just 'changed the names'.
The problem is not with the "average Joe" but with the "average Gamer".
Back in the early days of gaming, the people who played games were the ones who had backgrounds that meshed with the themes of games.
If you played D&D, the suggested reading list in the DMG had what was already on your bookshelf, not what you should go out and buy. These days you are lucky to find gamers who even know there were any fantasy books written before The Wheel of Time other than the Lord of the Rings.
Likewise RPG players originally came from the ranks of tabletop miniature gamers. Figuring out vector trails was a minor task for them. These days you are lucky to find gamers who even know what acceleration and velocity vectors are, let alone care about them.
To a large degree this is what WotC wants. Look at some of the statements about 4E. They no longer want to market to the "geek" crowd. We are too small a group, with too many divergent interests, and to a large degree, too much creativity that causes us to make our own supplements rather than buy theirs. Instead they want Joe Couch Potato, wandering down the street with his buddies, getting distracted from hanging out, and deciding to spontaneously play D&D online instead of fiddling about with another flash game they found on a random link.
4e is a fine game with which you can still geek out. But star frontiers certainly took a base line intelligence.
Everything you said pretty much hits the nail on the head. Same with Tom above.
Our hobby attracted highly literate people, who were interested in the scifi/fantasy genre because they had to read and use their own imagination. The RPG's had sketch art for you, but you had to fill in the rest.
Now with serials, movies, and video games people can generate interest without ever cracking a book. This degrades the literacy level. Even people that disagree with current educational theories see lack of reading leads to lack of critical thinking. The gaming hobby has both blossomed because of all the media available, and suffered for it. I have plenty of friends in their thirties that still only know fantasy through video games. Video games are what makes this hobby PRETTY, reading the wealth of ideas from sci-fi fantasy is where the SOUL of hobby exists.
Or maybe all the rest of us DO understand science, but after work, and school, and bills, and kids, and responsibilities, we just want to sit down and have a good time being entertained. Theres something to be said for just sitting down, turning your brain off, and having a good time every once in a while.
That is why they invented SITCOMS and reality TV:D
The science fiction part is really so much technobabble, it really doesn't mean much other than to sound scientific to the uneducated. For instance the Tie Fighter, "Tie" stands for "twin ion engines" there is something called an ion engine, it has very little thrust, produced as much thrust as a single sheet of paper on the table top, the weight of that paper is how much thrust an ion engine is likely to produce, that said an ion engine is not really suitable propulsion for a space fighter, they'll just sit their accelerating very slowly and the X-Wings will just pick them off one-by-one as these TIEs won't be able to evade since they only have ion engines to maneuver with and they're powered by solar panels besides.
For someone who knows what TIE stands for, you are vastly underestimating the science of Star Wars and overestimating the science of Star Frontiers. You have no idea what kind of advances a civilization can make with ion engine technology when they have thousands of years to study it and improve upon it. Star Frontiers, on the other hand....
Ever heard of Project Valkyrie? It's the project to make a functional antimatter-powered spacecraft.
The chief feasibility issue of Valkyrie (or for any antimatter-beam drive) lies in its requirement of quantities of antimatter fuel measured in tons. Antimatter cannot be produced at an efficiency of more than 50% (that is to say, to produce one gram of antimatter requires twice as much energy as you would get from annihilating that gram with a gram of matter). Since a half a kilogram of antimatter would yield 9 X 10^16 joules if annihilated with an equal amount of matter, this quickly adds up to enormous energy requirements for its production. To produce the 50 tons of antimatter Valkyrie would need would require 1.8 X 10^22 joules, or the entire power output of the Itaipu hydroelectric plant for 45,000 years.
That is the amount of fuel the Valkyrie would need to carry out its mission, "to be able to accelerate to 92% the speed of light and decelerate afterward, carrying a small human crew to another star system." One trip. Yet you find many ships carrying a year's supply of antimatter to be more realistic than improvements in an ion thruster? If you're going to accuse something of scientific inaccuracy, make sure you're accurate first.
The real reason TIE fighters use Ion engines is because they sound "cool" and they uneducated can really dig it because it sounds new and scientifical. Star Wars is basically "technojargon technojargon," then somebody ignites his light saber and there is a sword fight, and then some more technojargon. The technojargon is ultimately meaningless. It would be nice if the players might actually learn something about science by playing a SF RPG.
You have also, I see, ignored both in-universe and common-sense explanations for these things. Taking your earlier "X-wings shouldn't fly like planes" statement: Here you are in a small, one-man spacecraft. You are fighting opponents who can launch bolts of plasma at near-light velocity, any one of which can seriously damage your craft. You have a choice between turning regularly--horizontally, because there's no atmosphere or friction in space--or juking and diving and all that.
Which do you pick? Turn horizontally, and your opponent can (A) turn the same way and (B) hit you more easily; dive and evade, however, and you'll stay alive, since as you noted you can't exactly stop on a dime. I don't know about you, but I would pick the evasive maneuvers. You can come up with an explanation for most anything if you think about it, which you have done for Star Frontiers and have refused to do for Star Wars.
Star Frontiers has less wrong with it that Star Wars, its rockets basically behave as rockets, atomic fission is not energetic enough to give those Star Frontiers rockets the performance they have, I figure switching them to antimatter and alot of water for propellent would give rockets the capability to accelerate to 1% of the speed of light, the distance from the sun after 1 week of acceleration at 1g is basically out past the orbit of Saturn, the basic purpose is to achieve this distance in the minimum amount of time while providing a comfortable 1g environment inside the spaceship.
You accelerate at 1g for a week, then you enter the void, accelerate some more then decelerate, exit the void and you slow down at 1g for 7 more days while approaching your destination. Use some device such as zero-point energy to activate the hyperdrive and assume zero-point energy only works at this distance from the Sun, you have no means of storing it, so you need some other fuel source such as antimatter to get you out there so you can activate the hyperdrive with the zero-point energy source.
Ships have typically a year's supply of antimatter so only need to refuel with this stuff once per year, however you need to refuel with water after every trip as this takes up the most space while the antimatter requires little, the remanider of space aboard the ship is you cargo, crew, and passenger accomodations. The antimatter supply is very secure, its container is much tougher than the ship its in, you basically have to destroy the entire ship before you can get an antimatter containment breach, even so, most ships aren't allowed anywhere near a city or populated area, they park in orbit and a shuttle ferrys supplies and passengers to it from ground to orbit and back down again, the main exception to this rule are scout vessels, which are operated by the military.
Ah, that's right. I'd forgotten we had "the void" and a handwaved zero-point energy to reduce the massive fuel requirements. Put those in, and Star Frontiers' "void" is more realistic than Star Wars' hyperspace...how, exactly?
----------------------
I hate to sound so harsh, but I hate people who complain about the unscientific nature of this RPG or that movie or those books or whatever when their pet RPG/movie/book is just as bad or worse. That's where the whole Star Trek vs. Star Wars thing comes from--is the Force or the transporter more unrealistic?
And, oh by the way, I do like Star Wars a lot (a lot a lot), yet I'm not an ignorant, Hollywood-produced fan as you seem to think all of us are. I aced my quantum mechanics and computational physics courses last year, so I'm not exactly ignorant of science; I read sci-fi extensively and almost exclusively, so it's not as if I don't know anything better. I like Star Wars because it doesn't pretend to be completely realistic, and I don't have to work out physics equations to make sure they're being accurate--because they don't claim to be.
I hate to sound so harsh, but I hate people who complain about the unscientific nature of this RPG or that movie or those books or whatever when their pet RPG/movie/book is just as bad or worse. That's where the whole Star Trek vs. Star Wars thing comes from--is the Force or the transporter more unrealistic?
And, oh by the way, I do like Star Wars a lot (a lot a lot), yet I'm not an ignorant, Hollywood-produced fan as you seem to think all of us are. I aced my quantum mechanics and computational physics courses last year, so I'm not exactly ignorant of science; I read sci-fi extensively and almost exclusively, so it's not as if I don't know anything better. I like Star Wars because it doesn't pretend to be completely realistic, and I don't have to work out physics equations to make sure they're being accurate--because they don't claim to be.
Exactly. The best we can do as sci fi RPG'ers is decide which one holds the science we find most plausible, and enjoy that one.
I play star wars for its fantasy setting, not science. MASS EFFECT though is a well researched game on several scientific fronts, and I think a step in a good direction.
For someone who knows what TIE stands for, you are vastly underestimating the science of Star Wars and overestimating the science of Star Frontiers. You have no idea what kind of advances a civilization can make with ion engine technology when they have thousands of years to study it and improve upon it. Star Frontiers, on the other hand....
Ever heard of Project Valkyrie? It's the project to make a functional antimatter-powered spacecraft.
That is the amount of fuel the Valkyrie would need to carry out its mission, "to be able to accelerate to 92% the speed of light and decelerate afterward, carrying a small human crew to another star system." One trip. Yet you find many ships carrying a year's supply of antimatter to be more realistic than improvements in an ion thruster? If you're going to accuse something of scientific inaccuracy, make sure you're accurate first.
You have also, I see, ignored both in-universe and common-sense explanations for these things. Taking your earlier "X-wings shouldn't fly like planes" statement: Here you are in a small, one-man spacecraft. You are fighting opponents who can launch bolts of plasma at near-light velocity, any one of which can seriously damage your craft. You have a choice between turning regularly--horizontally, because there's no atmosphere or friction in space--or juking and diving and all that.
Which do you pick? Turn horizontally, and your opponent can (A) turn the same way and (B) hit you more easily; dive and evade, however, and you'll stay alive, since as you noted you can't exactly stop on a dime. I don't know about you, but I would pick the evasive maneuvers. You can come up with an explanation for most anything if you think about it, which you have done for Star Frontiers and have refused to do for Star Wars.
Ah, that's right. I'd forgotten we had "the void" and a handwaved zero-point energy to reduce the massive fuel requirements. Put those in, and Star Frontiers' "void" is more realistic than Star Wars' hyperspace...how, exactly?
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I hate to sound so harsh, but I hate people who complain about the unscientific nature of this RPG or that movie or those books or whatever when their pet RPG/movie/book is just as bad or worse. That's where the whole Star Trek vs. Star Wars thing comes from--is the Force or the transporter more unrealistic?
And, oh by the way, I do like Star Wars a lot (a lot a lot), yet I'm not an ignorant, Hollywood-produced fan as you seem to think all of us are. I aced my quantum mechanics and computational physics courses last year, so I'm not exactly ignorant of science; I read sci-fi extensively and almost exclusively, so it's not as if I don't know anything better. I like Star Wars because it doesn't pretend to be completely realistic, and I don't have to work out physics equations to make sure they're being accurate--because they don't claim to be.
I'm not saying you are ignorant or that the fans of Star Wars are ignorant, what I'm saying is that the writers of the Star Wars screenplays assumed a lack of understanding of physics in their audience. I enjoyed Star Wars too, but I'd also like to see a Science Fiction RPG - something for more science literate people. Not something for people with advanced physics degrees per se, but Newtons laws of Motion aren't exactly advanced physics. To me quantum mechanics is just so much mumbo-jumbo, but Newton's laws of motion are pretty basic, they are classical equations and simple arithmetic.
Two numbers are associated with each spaceship, the velocity vector and the force applied to the spaceship each round. Without that force the spaceship continues in a straight line along the path indicated by its established velocity vector. When you apply the force you divide the force indicated in tons by the mass of the spaceship in tons and thus get an acceleration, you then add the acceleration vector to the velocity vector producing a new velocity vector. You apply half the old velocity vector and half the new velocity vector for the round in which you apply the force. for subsequent rounds, if no force is added you apply the ships new resultant velocity vector for its move the next round.
With d20 Future each ship has a speed, the player controling the spaceship decides which direction to apply the speed and whether to apply that speed, and that determines from which space to which space he can move his ship, if he elects not to move his spaceship at all, it stays right where it was the last round. Movement in d20 Future is absolute, not relative. Star Wars applies a similar system or alternatively a completely abstract one, where the position of the spaceship is not tracked at all, its range to the nearest enemy is simply noted, that is too abstract to me. I like to keep track of things such as the spaceship's position and velocity and decide how to apply an acceleration impulse to that velocity and then apply that velocity to move the spaceship on the board. Even Star Wars assumes spaceships have momentum and can't turn on a dime or suddenly reverse course, but the small ships do fly like airplanes and they always point in the direction of travel - an assumption that's not always accurate in real space travel.
For instance in Star Frontiers, a spaceship can maneuver alot to evade enemy fire, but that often means flying sideways to change course if applying force sideways to one's motion, and it sometimes means flying backwards to apply force to slow the ship down, these are realistic movement rules for spaceships. Star Wars ships, by contrast bank and turn.
Take the opening scene in Star War- A New Hope for example. The Tantative IV is racing towards the planet Tatooine while being pursued by the Star Destroyer Devastator, both ships are facing towards the planet with their engine ablazing, that means both ships are accelerating as the approach the planet, not slowing down as they should be if that planet was truly their destination. If I were to redo that scene to make its physics accurate, you'd first see the Devastator in the picture flying backwards with its engines plazing filling the screen as it occludes the planet Tatooine. The audience would see this huge wedge-shaped spaceship filling the screen and wonder what's going on, then they would see its huge turbo lasers firing at something, what it is firing at the audience doesn't know. After a while the entire Devastator pulls into the screen and recedes in the distance, you can tell its firing at something (assuming they are glowing plasma bolts and not lasers) and the planet Tatooine again becomes visible, finally the small Tantative IV pulls into the screen flying backwards, seemingly chasing that star destroyer with its tail trying to evade the fire coming from the devastator as both ships recede in the distance. Suddenly the Tantative is hit and its engines cease, and cut to the scene with the droids.
Seemingly from the audience's point of view the Tantative IV seems to be chasing the Star Destroyer instead of the other way around and both are flying backwards with engines pointed toward the planet in the direction of travel. You could see why George Lucas might have problems with this type of scene, although the physics is correct, but for a role playing game this is perfectly acceptable because the players don't actually see anything except for the game pieces on the board.
As for antimatter in Star Frontiers, after looking at the various options, it seems that antimatter is the best fuel to use when considering the fact that each starship needs to accelerate for a minimum of two weeks plus some time in hyperspace to cross the reduced interstellar distance in the realm of the void. Zero-point energy is a bit of hocus pocus, we don't understand how to harness it, so therefore we pair it with the mysterious hyperdrive which we don't know how it works either. A apply a minimum condition that the starship must be past a certain distance from the star before zero point energy can be used at all and also that the zero point energy can't be used for anything else other than the hyperdrive and that it can't be stored either. The whole thing is built into the hyperdrive and the hyperdrive itself is built into the ships engine assembly otherwise the starship accelerates according to the normal laws of physics and it needs an energy source to propel it, turns out it also needs a reaction mass, water is very convenient, it is easy to store unlike liquid hydrogen, so you mix 1 part antihydrogen with 1,000 parts water by mass and assume 50% efficiency with the matter antimatter reaction and also assume that water takes up 25% of the ship's total mass and working out the rocket equation it turns out that the maximum velocity that can be reached is about 6% of the speed of light assuming the ship accelerates and does not slow down. I assume ths ship does slow down, so that means a total cruise velocity of 3% of the speed of light. 2% is required to get into the void - the actual requirement in my system is to reach 100 light minutes from the Sun or star at at 1-G this takes 1 week of acceleration and since velocity is presurved upon exiting the void, you also need to decelerate for about 1 week also so you can land on the planet. The ship has 1 week of 1-g maneuvers to travel through the void. I assume the Void is an empty parallel Universe whose distance scale is much smaller than in our universe. The distance scale is so reduced, so that it takes a day of acceleration/deceleration at 1-g to move the corresponding distance in our universe of 1 light year and since its an acceleration, the square of the time in days accelerating/decellerating in a straigt line is the distance in light years covered or to put it another way, take the square-root of the distance in light years and the result is how many days needed to be spend traveling that distance in the void. If you wish to coast in the void, then after 12 hours of accelerating at one gee and turning off the engine, the ship is moving a corresponding distance in our universe of about 2 light years per day and then it has to slow down for another 12 hours and exit the void near its destination and slow down for another week.
Exactly. The best we can do as sci fi RPG'ers is decide which one holds the science we find most plausible, and enjoy that one.
I play star wars for its fantasy setting, not science. MASS EFFECT though is a well researched game on several scientific fronts, and I think a step in a good direction.
I like the initials of Star Frontiers though (SF), just like D&D you know just what you are getting into. SF as in Science Fiction. I like Star Frontiers as a Generic Game of Science Fiction rather than as a specific setting such as the Frontier with such in such planets. It seems that with most Science Fiction RPGs a setting is already supplied rather than just applying general rules that the GM can use for his own setting, you get certain planets, certain societies. I wonder whay you can't just go the D&D direction but with science fiction instead of fantasy, supply the rules, give a sample setting or two, but keep the examples vague so the setting can be plugged into the GMs own universe. The Star Wars setting fills and entire Galaxy, there is the Empire looming somewhere in the background or else its right in your face depending on which era in Star Wars history your playing in. There are certain aspects of the setting that you can't really mess with and still have it the Star Wars role playing game.
"You kill the Emperor? Oh no that's not supposed to happen yet!" The player shrugs, "Can't help it," he says, "I just got luckey with my die rolls and the Emperor didn't make his saving throws. Sorry." The GM says, "Do over, do over! We've got to play the entire round over again because the Emperor was not supposed to die, cause as we know Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker was suppose to kill him." The player replies, "But he was asking me to raise my light saber and strike him down with it, so I did. It wasn't my fault that Darth Vader couldn't raise his in time to block my blow, so I decapitated the Emperor and now he is dead! What do you mean a do over? that's not fair!"
I'm not saying you are ignorant or that the fans of Star Wars are ignorant, what I'm saying is that the writers of the Star Wars screenplays assumed a lack of understanding of physics in their audience. I enjoyed Star Wars too, but I'd also like to see a Science Fiction RPG - something for more science literate people. Not something for people with advanced physics degrees per se, but Newtons laws of Motion aren't exactly advanced physics. To me quantum mechanics is just so much mumbo-jumbo, but Newton's laws of motion are pretty basic, they are classical equations and simple arithmetic.
I see. Well, in that case, I can still set the record straight.
Take the opening scene in Star War- A New Hope for example. The Tantative IV is racing towards the planet Tatooine while being pursued by the Star Destroyer Devastator, both ships are facing towards the planet with their engine ablazing, that means both ships are accelerating as the approach the planet, not slowing down as they should be if that planet was truly their destination. If I were to redo that scene to make its physics accurate, you'd first see the Devastator in the picture flying backwards with its engines plazing filling the screen as it occludes the planet Tatooine. The audience would see this huge wedge-shaped spaceship filling the screen and wonder what's going on, then they would see its huge turbo lasers firing at something, what it is firing at the audience doesn't know. After a while the entire Devastator pulls into the screen and recedes in the distance, you can tell its firing at something (assuming they are glowing plasma bolts and not lasers) and the planet Tatooine again becomes visible, finally the small Tantative IV pulls into the screen flying backwards, seemingly chasing that star destroyer with its tail trying to evade the fire coming from the devastator as both ships recede in the distance. Suddenly the Tantative is hit and its engines cease, and cut to the scene with the droids.
Seemingly from the audience's point of view the Tantative IV seems to be chasing the Star Destroyer instead of the other way around and both are flying backwards with engines pointed toward the planet in the direction of travel. You could see why George Lucas might have problems with this type of scene, although the physics is correct, but for a role playing game this is perfectly acceptable because the players don't actually see anything except for the game pieces on the board.
The reason they're traveling the way they are is simple--they're not traveling to Tattooine. The original mission of the Tantive IV was to grab Kenobi on Tattooine, but when they were attacked their priorities changed to (A) escape and (B) don't let the Empire know about Kenobi. Thus, they weren't trying to stop at Tattooine, they were trying to pass it.
As for antimatter in Star Frontiers, after looking at the various options,[...]
My point was that antimatter works for the whole void/zero-point setup of Star Frontiers but that in reality it wouldn't fly. Sure, antimatter works for an RPG, but it's no more realistic or feasible for intersystem travel than another version of hyperspace.
All the antimatter business with water reaction mass is plausible science, what is debatable is the hyperdrive and the means of powering it, the zero-point energy device. Well even without the hyperdrive, this spaceship would still make a fairly decent starship, it travels at 3% of the speed of light, this means it would take 146.67 years to reach the nearest star which is 4.4 light years away. The ship also has cryionics tubes which can hold each human occupant in suspended animation for the majority of the trip's duration, so you don't absolutely need that hyperdrive in that case. Each time you arrived at a destination, you'd fill up the water tanks and then when your business is done, you'd return to the solar system or go somewhere else, after about 9 trips though you'd have to return to a place where antimatter was available so you could refuel. Assuming 9 such trips were made of about 4.4 light years each the total time between antimatter refueling is 1320 years, I think you would agree that after such a long time it service it would be about the right time to get a new starship. Each time you returned to the planet orbiting Alpha Centuari or to Earth it would almost be like visiting an entirely different planet as far as the human society on it was concerned.
Lets say its the 22nd century and you got your new starship loaded with antimatter and you want to deliver a cargo to a colony world orbiting Alpha Centauri A. You leave on 2200 AD and youo arrive on 2346 AD, you sell your cargo to the colonists, you note that the atmosphere consists on an unbreathable mixture of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and water vapor. The colonist have just begun a terraforming project and require some of the supplies from your ship. After unloading the cargo for a nice tidy profit, you credit your bank account back on Earth which takes 4.4 years to update, then you head back home to pick up your new cargo.
You arrive on Earth in 2492, you pick up your next cargo bound for that colony world and you head back towards Alpha Centauri, you arrive on 2638 AD, you land on the planet, not that much of the surface is covered with genetically modified plants, the atmosphere contains more oxygen, people still move around in special suits as the environment is still toxic, but it is improved. You sell youo cargo and return to Earth arriving on 2784 AD
Pick up the next cargo and so forth. after about 9 trips of this, the colony world end up as an inhabitable planet with green forests and a breathable atmosphere. The merchant decides to retire on this planet after exhausting his antimatter supply and selling whats left of his ship.
You have to seperate the zero point energy driven hyperdrive from the conventional matter/antimatter rocket.
I agree that the physics for antimatter rockets is plausible for intrasystem travel, but not for the intersystem, trans-galaxy travel you were proposing before. The whole issue with the zero-point drive is that you're counting on it to make the high-speed travel of an RPG possible, when if you had to use antimatter you couldn't achieve that plot-advancing speed.
It's fine for colonizing planets and such, but unless I've gotten the wrong impression of Star Frontiers and that's the purpose of the game, we can't really talk about the realism or accuracy of antimatter drives in the game since they won't work for the most important aspect of transportation--namely, FTL or CTL travel.
I agree that the physics for antimatter rockets is plausible for intrasystem travel, but not for the intersystem, trans-galaxy travel you were proposing before. The whole issue with the zero-point drive is that you're counting on it to make the high-speed travel of an RPG possible, when if you had to use antimatter you couldn't achieve that plot-advancing speed.
It's fine for colonizing planets and such, but unless I've gotten the wrong impression of Star Frontiers and that's the purpose of the game, we can't really talk about the realism or accuracy of antimatter drives in the game since they won't work for the most important aspect of transportation--namely, FTL or CTL travel.
Slower than light will get you there. Also remember the humans on the Frontier are in another part of the Galaxy from us. We really don't know how far in the future they are. If a bunch of colonists got in some cryonics tubes and decided to go to another part of the Galaxy, they could have taken 500,000 years to get there for all we know, but if they all arrived at the same place at the same time it wouldn't really matter. One possibility is that they originated from the Same Earth that became GammaWorld. Their distance and remoteness from Earth is rather vague.
Having a FTL does speed things up however, instead of taking 146 years, a trip to Alpha Centauri would take 7 days + sqrt(4.4) days + 7 days = 16 days. FTL is a bit of a necessity if we're going to have this kind of a setting, so I only grudgingly accept it. If we don't have it, it becomes a sort of forward time travel campaign. The GM would need to prepare several "Alpha Centauris", for instance there is the one at 2346 AD, the one at 2492 AD, the one at 2638 AD, the one at 2784 AD, and at 2930, 3076, 3222, 3368, and 3514 AD. For each time the players visit the planet orbiting Alpha Centauri, the GM will have to prepare a description of the environment, the society, the government, and the Alpha Centauri system at that time. At one visit the planet might be a republic, on another visit it might be ruled by a cruel dictator, a third visit might find society has broken down or their could be a Civil War going on. The crew of any particular starship doesn't really know what they'll find when they arrive, and each system will have its own independent government and political situation. The Star Frontiers setting describes a somewhat unified confederation or alliance, between systems fighting the Sathar, such a thing is not possible without FTL.
That said, I'd choose the FTL system that has the least impact, I really don't like the concept of the quick getaway and the "jump to lightspeed". Starships really shouldn't be teleporting all over the place. FTL is really a story-telling device where its necessary to get the starship from one system to another quickly, but I really don't like the idea of starships just popping up in the imediate vicinity of the planet their heading to, I'd much rather have them appear at the edge of the System and use conventional physics for their insystem travel. Let them use antimatter rockets to get off of the planets and travel around the system, no warp drives, no antigravity devices, no reactionless thrusters, no magical free energy sources. I would like the space travel to resemble what its actually going to be like, no quick teleports, force fields, artificial gravity fields, or "enertial dampers" lets just have the real stuff. That's the way I'd like a science fiction setting to be.
That said there is a theoretical basis for FTL systems, basically Einsteins laws necesitate traveling below the speed of light locally, manipulation of space around the ship is a way to get around that, though its debateable, most serious physicists don't really think its possible or practical, in part they say because any FTL system allows for the possibility of time travel and the old "Grandfather's Paradox". I'd like the FTL plot device to be as inobtrusive as possible, in other words there should not be alot of applications for it other than traveling between systems in a reasonable amount of time. You must travel the 100 light minutes from the central star before you can activate the hyperdrive, and the fastest way to get their is to accelerate continuously. There are slower ways to get their of course one can cruise and take months or years to reach that distance, but most people would like to get their quickly, and so the sort of rocket ships you need to get there quickly actually resemble the types of rockets you'd actually use if there was not FTL system at all.
The first one I mention is the antimatter/matter rocket, this rocket uses the anihilation of matter with antimatter to release energy, this energy is then absorbed by more surrounding matter heating it up to incredible temperatures, hotter than the interior of the sun, the plasmas are then directed by magnetic fields out of the rocket nozzils to produce 1g to 2gs of acceleration, 2gs being what's typically needed to get off the surface of a planet. I like antimatter rockets because they are small and compact and most resemble the typical science fiction rocket operated by independent merchants plying the interstellar lanes and the lone scout exploring a planet.
Another way to travel is by beamed laser sail. You have a giant laser firing a beam of laser light towards the destination, and a thin light sail gets in front of that beam and is accelerated for 1 week to 2% of the speed of light. Upon approaching the destination, it needs another giant laser to slow it down. This only works between two established systems with this kind of infrastructure, it doesn't really work with a small party exploring a new system.
There is the fusion rocket of course. Fusion fuel is considerably less energetic than antimatter, a fusion rocket can of course reach 2% of the speed of light, this requires a considerable amount of fuel though. A flyby space probe called Daedalus was designed to go about 10% to 15% of the speed of light, but this requires two stages and a very special kind of fuel, namely Helium-3 and Deuterium which is a sort of heavy hydrogen with a neutron imbeded in the nucleus of each atom. Aquiring this sort of fuel requires a bit of trouble, you have to refine and process this fuel from the atmosphere of a gas giant, and you have to manufacture pellets that can contain this fuel so they can be targets for the laser implosion device. Probably the manufacturing base required to obtain this fuel locally would not be small, and would not be the sort of thing a "Han Solo" type of person might have.
Antimatter rockets can carry several trips worth of antimatter if your requirement is to reach only 2% of the speed of light and slow down again. Fusion rockets typically require stages or throw away parts to have similar performance, and the acceleration predicted for fusion rockets is not said to be great except for the pellet implosion kind.
interstellar ramjets have the same problems as other fusion rockets and more, they are not likely to be cheap. Antimatter production can always improve in efficiency and can use the power of the Sun as its source of energy, and once produces antimatter doesn't take up much space, it is the perfect science fiction fuel in other words. Well there are certain problems with it, a containment breach of course followed by a terrific explosion that would dwarf that of a thermonuclear bomb. People would understandibly want to keep antimatter rockets well away from cities. Orbital shuttles would probably be used extensively in most civilized systems to ferry crew and cargo from ship to surface, a scout ship is somewhat different as they go to unexplored planets, where the inhabitants are unaware of the explosive potential onboard the visiting starship. What they don't know they need never find out if they don't have hostile intent.
For instance each Star Wars planet has a gravity that's very similar to Earth as the cost of simulating gravity that's less or more isn't economically justified, although certainly possible, having special effects to simulate low gravity worlds are usually the first thing to be cut with a limited budget and a story to tell.
Artificial gravity solves another problem, I'd solve it with ships that constantly accelerate at 1g. Ships that rotate to provide gravity typically have to be at least 200 meters in radius so as not to make the occupants sick with the rapid rotation otherwise required. Big ships imply big corporations and crew members taking orders from the "boss" and collecting a salary with Union benefits. Good for some science fiction and for Star Trek style quasi-military campaigns where everyone is always saluting someone of higher rank. I think though that not all player groups would work well with an established pecking order and an "Aye Aye sir!"
One major defect of Battlestar Galactica is the fact that there are no aliens and all alien planets with life on them resemble Earth. Most of the action and activity is internal to the fleet with the places they travel through being mostly irrelevant with the exception of good hiding places for Cylon ambushes and further clues leading to Earth and so forth. This was done for budgetary reasons no doubt, also because good realistic aliens are expensive and they didn't want to produce the "makeup and rubber" suit variety, as serious science fiction, they didn't want to put up with such silliness. RPGs of course are restricted only by one's imagination, just describe the alien and the alien environment, that is all. That is why RPGs that describe movie and television settings are usually compromised in some fashion.