Concerned about Copyright infringement. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Concerned about Copyright infringement.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xukuth
Feb 09, 2009 3:05:29 First abit of history on me to give some insight on my concerns. I've been chat based RPing for the better part of 15 years now. Almost exclusively I've been RPing a Drow that runs a very unconventional house, First being that it is a Male, and secondly he has a symbiotic relationship with a dragon.

I am, finally, begining to put it all to paper and wish to write a series of books on the life of my character and be able to publish it. I do fear a copyright infringement though, based on the usage of the ideals of the Drow race as well as the usage of such words as "Drow" and several words based from the TSR dictionary for the Drow language.

So basically my question is, what would be applicable in writing such a story, without infringing, or if such not even a possibility, how can I go about being able to acquire permission to utilize such terms and ideals within my story. I do not wish to have lawyers banging down my door to sue me.

Thank you in advance for your responces.

Josh
#2
Zherog
Feb 09, 2009 9:12:33 You should address your questions to a lawyer who specializes in Intellectual Property law, rather than random people on a message board.
#3
Scars_Unseen
Feb 09, 2009 11:58:18 This should answer your question.
#4
Shiftkitty
Feb 09, 2009 14:44:35 Yes, I believe the key is about money. If you're not charging for it, it amounts to fanfic (or satire in my "Gromph Finds A Saxophone" bit I wrote a looooong time ago). I don't know what the laws are regarding fanfic, but as long as its free, nobody seems to officially care. My "Dungeons and Dragons Solitaire" uses illustrations from various places including the 4e DMG and the 3e MM as well as someone's personal photo (Photoshopped for artistic effect). I creditted the pics where I could, but otherwise believe I was free to use them so long as I charge nothing for the product and make it plain that is not a licensed WotC product.

I am working on something will need their official blessing, but I don't quite have it together yet.
#5
patricklawinger
Feb 09, 2009 14:50:47
You should address your questions to a lawyer who specializes in Intellectual Property law, rather than random people on a message board.

This. The Intellectual Property (IP) realm can be complicated and message board advice on legal issues is not something you should follow

Basically, you can write a proposal and send it to WotC to see if you have a shot at getting it published here or you can can write the story/book in a way that doesn't infringe on any WotC IP. Only you can decide what you really want to do with it. You might be able to publish it as a fan work, but that isn't going to earn you anything for it nor would the "publishing credit" really mean much if you want to get into writing.
#6
patricklawinger
Feb 09, 2009 14:58:14
Yes, I believe the key is about money. If you're not charging for it, it amounts to fanfic (or satire in my "Gromph Finds A Saxophone" bit I wrote a looooong time ago). I don't know what the laws are regarding fanfic, but as long as its free, nobody seems to officially care. My "Dungeons and Dragons Solitaire" uses illustrations from various places including the 4e DMG and the 3e MM as well as someone's personal photo (Photoshopped for artistic effect). I creditted the pics where I could, but otherwise believe I was free to use them so long as I charge nothing for the product and make it plain that is not a licensed WotC product.

I am working on something will need their official blessing, but I don't quite have it together yet.

The fact that something is "free" does NOT mean it does not infringe on someone else's copyright. If you are using illustrations without the permission of the copyright owner you are violating their rights. It doesn't matter if it is a free product, website, etc.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the idea that putting something out for free avoids copyright violations is an internet fallacy and a good reason the original poster should talk to a lawyer if they have real questions about IP law. I have seen very authoritative posts supporting this idea but the IP lawyers I know say it is quite dangerously wrong.

Edit: scarce details above, I know, you should talk to someone with IP experience.
#7
Shiftkitty
Feb 09, 2009 17:29:51 No, I know it doesn't constitute legality, but as I said in the fanfic remarks, it's a heck of a lot less likely to draw fire. Otherwise, places like the "Lavender Eyes" website would have been shut down long ago. As far as writing about the drow, I should also suggest the OP read some other, non-WotC novels about the drow and see what they get away with. Often in these books they're called "Dark Elves". Jet Mykles has series of stories involving "ebony-skinned" elves with fine, white hair and red eyes (although other colors are found). Be warned, though. Those books are erotica. If I find others that aren't quite so racy, I'll post the titles.
#8
thurak
Feb 09, 2009 20:01:12
Be warned, though. Those books are erotica.

lol.

why is it whenever I heard about fan fiction concerning drow, it involves erotica?

sheesh.
#9
Shiftkitty
Feb 10, 2009 12:04:04 'Cause they're sexxxxxeehhhhhhhhhh ;)

LOL, yeah, I never noticed how much drow erotica is out there. But I will say that Lavender Eyes has a larger non-erotica section. It's just that it's called "Lavender Eyes" for a reason. All Drizzt, all day.
#10
thakowsaizmu
Feb 13, 2009 1:29:06 Just a quick comment: Drow was not a term invented by WotC, TSR or any other RPG company. It is Scottish Folklore, and therefor is owned intellectually by noone.
#11
Shiftkitty
Feb 13, 2009 12:25:59 I thought they had done like I heard Steven Spielberg had done with the word "Nazi". Didn't he trademark it, or was that just an urban legend?
#12
Zherog
Feb 13, 2009 13:01:21 That sounds like an urban legend to me... For one, I doubt anybody would be able to receive a trademark on the word Nazi (or any other historical reference).
#13
antesse
Feb 13, 2009 13:25:55
That sounds like an urban legend to me... For one, I doubt anybody would be able to receive a trademark on the word Nazi (or any other historical reference).

I don't think Nazi was trademarked as it is actually from "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" the German name for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Nazi is simply the bastardization of the first two syllables.

And according to wikipedia (my source for the above as well), a drow is a scottish fairy that lives underground...it has connections to the word "troll" as well.

As for your character, I am sure if you tweak it just right, you could write about a member of a dark skinned underground race with pointy ears. But I think the more you make it sound like you used DnD books as background research for the story, the more trouble you will have. However, I fear that you would have to dodge to the side too far to still have the same character and story...but a man living in a woman's world who is the leader of a house with a dragon as a buddy...that is completely in the clear.
#14
samwise
Feb 13, 2009 13:30:10 The trademark incident has been mentioned in the past.

Apparently one of the images Lucasfilms sent over for use with the Indiana Jones RPG was labeled as just "Nazi". TSR of course had to use it as they were given, and over time the entire incident has attained near urban legend status while the specifics have been lost.
#15
thedragonborn
Feb 22, 2009 20:32:49 As already stated, you need to see a lawyer rather then ask a random message board.
#16
Neutronium_Dragon
Feb 24, 2009 20:52:28 You can probably write and post fanfiction online without too much trouble as long as you aren't using WotC-owned names or images, or trying to charge for it. That said, ask first. While WotC probably won't mind either way, in this case it is *not* easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission.
#17
samwise
Feb 24, 2009 21:22:38
You can probably write and post fanfiction online without too much trouble as long as you aren't using WotC-owned names or images, or trying to charge for it. That said, ask first. While WotC probably won't mind either way, in this case it is *not* easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission.

I have never used images (primarily because I have no artistic talent in that area), but I have yet to experience any issues with WotC over fanfic or extensive background development using WotC IP.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xukuth Feb 09, 2009 3:05:29	First abit of history on me to give some insight on my concerns. I've been chat based RPing for the better part of 15 years now. Almost exclusively I've been RPing a Drow that runs a very unconventional house, First being that it is a Male, and secondly he has a symbiotic relationship with a dragon. I am, finally, begining to put it all to paper and wish to write a series of books on the life of my character and be able to publish it. I do fear a copyright infringement though, based on the usage of the ideals of the Drow race as well as the usage of such words as "Drow" and several words based from the TSR dictionary for the Drow language. So basically my question is, what would be applicable in writing such a story, without infringing, or if such not even a possibility, how can I go about being able to acquire permission to utilize such terms and ideals within my story. I do not wish to have lawyers banging down my door to sue me. Thank you in advance for your responces. Josh
#2 Zherog Feb 09, 2009 9:12:33	You should address your questions to a lawyer who specializes in Intellectual Property law, rather than random people on a message board.
#3 Scars_Unseen Feb 09, 2009 11:58:18	This should answer your question.
#4 Shiftkitty Feb 09, 2009 14:44:35	Yes, I believe the key is about money. If you're not charging for it, it amounts to fanfic (or satire in my "Gromph Finds A Saxophone" bit I wrote a looooong time ago). I don't know what the laws are regarding fanfic, but as long as its free, nobody seems to officially care. My "Dungeons and Dragons Solitaire" uses illustrations from various places including the 4e DMG and the 3e MM as well as someone's personal photo (Photoshopped for artistic effect). I creditted the pics where I could, but otherwise believe I was free to use them so long as I charge nothing for the product and make it plain that is not a licensed WotC product. I am working on something will need their official blessing, but I don't quite have it together yet.
#5 patricklawinger Feb 09, 2009 14:50:47	You should address your questions to a lawyer who specializes in Intellectual Property law, rather than random people on a message board. This. The Intellectual Property (IP) realm can be complicated and message board advice on legal issues is not something you should follow Basically, you can write a proposal and send it to WotC to see if you have a shot at getting it published here or you can can write the story/book in a way that doesn't infringe on any WotC IP. Only you can decide what you really want to do with it. You might be able to publish it as a fan work, but that isn't going to earn you anything for it nor would the "publishing credit" really mean much if you want to get into writing.
#6 patricklawinger Feb 09, 2009 14:58:14	Yes, I believe the key is about money. If you're not charging for it, it amounts to fanfic (or satire in my "Gromph Finds A Saxophone" bit I wrote a looooong time ago). I don't know what the laws are regarding fanfic, but as long as its free, nobody seems to officially care. My "Dungeons and Dragons Solitaire" uses illustrations from various places including the 4e DMG and the 3e MM as well as someone's personal photo (Photoshopped for artistic effect). I creditted the pics where I could, but otherwise believe I was free to use them so long as I charge nothing for the product and make it plain that is not a licensed WotC product. I am working on something will need their official blessing, but I don't quite have it together yet. The fact that something is "free" does NOT mean it does not infringe on someone else's copyright. If you are using illustrations without the permission of the copyright owner you are violating their rights. It doesn't matter if it is a free product, website, etc. Please don't take this the wrong way, but the idea that putting something out for free avoids copyright violations is an internet fallacy and a good reason the original poster should talk to a lawyer if they have real questions about IP law. I have seen very authoritative posts supporting this idea but the IP lawyers I know say it is quite dangerously wrong. Edit: scarce details above, I know, you should talk to someone with IP experience.
#7 Shiftkitty Feb 09, 2009 17:29:51	No, I know it doesn't constitute legality, but as I said in the fanfic remarks, it's a heck of a lot less likely to draw fire. Otherwise, places like the "Lavender Eyes" website would have been shut down long ago. As far as writing about the drow, I should also suggest the OP read some other, non-WotC novels about the drow and see what they get away with. Often in these books they're called "Dark Elves". Jet Mykles has series of stories involving "ebony-skinned" elves with fine, white hair and red eyes (although other colors are found). Be warned, though. Those books are erotica. If I find others that aren't quite so racy, I'll post the titles.
#8 thurak Feb 09, 2009 20:01:12	Be warned, though. Those books are erotica. lol. why is it whenever I heard about fan fiction concerning drow, it involves erotica? sheesh.
#9 Shiftkitty Feb 10, 2009 12:04:04	'Cause they're sexxxxxeehhhhhhhhhh ;) LOL, yeah, I never noticed how much drow erotica is out there. But I will say that Lavender Eyes has a larger non-erotica section. It's just that it's called "Lavender Eyes" for a reason. All Drizzt, all day.
#10 thakowsaizmu Feb 13, 2009 1:29:06	Just a quick comment: Drow was not a term invented by WotC, TSR or any other RPG company. It is Scottish Folklore, and therefor is owned intellectually by noone.
#11 Shiftkitty Feb 13, 2009 12:25:59	I thought they had done like I heard Steven Spielberg had done with the word "Nazi". Didn't he trademark it, or was that just an urban legend?
#12 Zherog Feb 13, 2009 13:01:21	That sounds like an urban legend to me... For one, I doubt anybody would be able to receive a trademark on the word Nazi (or any other historical reference).
#13 antesse Feb 13, 2009 13:25:55	That sounds like an urban legend to me... For one, I doubt anybody would be able to receive a trademark on the word Nazi (or any other historical reference). I don't think Nazi was trademarked as it is actually from "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" the German name for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Nazi is simply the bastardization of the first two syllables. And according to wikipedia (my source for the above as well), a drow is a scottish fairy that lives underground...it has connections to the word "troll" as well. As for your character, I am sure if you tweak it just right, you could write about a member of a dark skinned underground race with pointy ears. But I think the more you make it sound like you used DnD books as background research for the story, the more trouble you will have. However, I fear that you would have to dodge to the side too far to still have the same character and story...but a man living in a woman's world who is the leader of a house with a dragon as a buddy...that is completely in the clear.
#14 samwise Feb 13, 2009 13:30:10	The trademark incident has been mentioned in the past. Apparently one of the images Lucasfilms sent over for use with the Indiana Jones RPG was labeled as just "Nazi". TSR of course had to use it as they were given, and over time the entire incident has attained near urban legend status while the specifics have been lost.
#15 thedragonborn Feb 22, 2009 20:32:49	As already stated, you need to see a lawyer rather then ask a random message board.
#16 Neutronium_Dragon Feb 24, 2009 20:52:28	You can probably write and post fanfiction online without too much trouble as long as you aren't using WotC-owned names or images, or trying to charge for it. That said, ask first. While WotC probably won't mind either way, in this case it is not easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission.
#17 samwise Feb 24, 2009 21:22:38	You can probably write and post fanfiction online without too much trouble as long as you aren't using WotC-owned names or images, or trying to charge for it. That said, ask first. While WotC probably won't mind either way, in this case it is not easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission. I have never used images (primarily because I have no artistic talent in that area), but I have yet to experience any issues with WotC over fanfic or extensive background development using WotC IP.