Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mudbunny Aug 06, 2009 14:29:03	You can get a Fan site kit now http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Press/ Downloading the kit brings you to the following fan site kit policy. Fan Site Kit Policy Wizards of the Coast LLC ("Wizards") is grateful for the enthusiastic and long-standing support our games have received from fans, customers, and collectors. We appreciate that user communities for our games enjoy sharing information, experiences, and opinions about our products, and we want to encourage that sharing. One of the most popular and convenient ways to share is on websites owned or operated by our fans, collectors and commentators ("Fan Sites"). For that reason, we have developed this website to provide you with trademarks and logos, product images, artwork, and other trademarked and/or copyrighted materials that have been pre-approved by Wizards ("Wizards Materials") for your use on your Fan Site. We encourage you to use these materials, post your character sheets for Dungeons & Dragons®, create fan fiction, display your personal artwork, and just have fun on your Fan Site. Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. For questions concerning digital rights for all other Wizards brands, please visit www.wizards.com/customerservice. Use of Wizards Materials on Fan Sites Wizards is providing Wizards Materials in the Dungeons & Dragons® tool kit and the Magic: The Gathering® tool kit (each a "Tool Kit") for use on your Fan Site or other Social Media platform. Please feel free to use these Tool Kits to enhance your site or personal pages, but make sure your use of the Wizards Materials complies with the guidelines and stays within the permitted uses and policies set out in this Fan Site Policy (the "Policy"). Any other uses of Wizards Materials on your Fan Site must be pre-approved by Wizards in writing. Wizards will be adding new content to the Tool Kits periodically, so be sure to check back! The "suits" in Wizards' legal department require us to tell you that Wizards Materials in the Tool Kits are for your personal Fan Site use only, and that the rights and permissions we grant to you in this Policy are personal to you. You may not transfer or assign these rights to any third party. They also want us to point out that by using any content available on the Wizards.com website, you acknowledge your acceptance of this Policy and the Wizards.com website Terms of Use ("Terms of Use") http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Default.aspx?doc=SiteLegalNotice. This Policy is part of the Terms of Use, and may be modified or terminated by Wizards at any time in accordance with the Terms of Use. Also, we reserve the right to revoke this limited use license at any time, for any reason, and at the sole discretion of Wizards. Now that we've satisfied legal, here are the guidelines and policies for use of the Wizards Materials: * Wizards' Trademarks and Product Images. You may use Wizards' trademarks and copyrighted product images and printed materials provided in the relevant Tool Kit only for the purpose of display, identification and discussion of Wizards' products as expressly permitted in this Policy. You may not use Wizards trademarks on or in connection with products other than genuine Wizards products, unless such use is specifically granted to you under the terms of the Game System License ("GSL") http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome or another separate written contract with Wizards. * Social Networking Websites. You may use Wizards Materials on your personal pages on the social networking sites Facebook® and MySpace®, and other social networking websites that are substantially similar; provided, however that your use remains compliant with this Policy and the policies, terms and conditions of those sites. Wizards accepts no responsibility whatsoever in connection with or arising from your activities on such sites. * No Alteration. If you download Wizards Materials from a Wizards' Tool Kit, you must display such Wizards Materials without alteration (except that you may make proportionate reductions in size as technically necessary to accommodate posting on your Fan Site). * Use of Non-Public Information Prohibited. You may not publish, display, exhibit or use any information about products (including any photographs, game text, rules, or drawings of such new products or their prototypes) that has not already been released to the general public by Wizards or that Wizards has otherwise expressly authorized for release to the collector community. * No Fee or E-Commerce Activity. Your Fan Site is for your own personal use. You may not charge any fee to customers or visitors to your Fan Site for use of the Wizards Materials that you have posted, unless such activity is specifically granted to you under the terms of the GSL or another separate written contract between you and Wizards. You may not engage in any e-commerce activities on your Fan Site including, but not limited to, sale of products or professional services. For purposes of this Policy, donations/tip jars and general advertising are not considered "e-commerce" activities. * No Endorsement or Sponsorship. You may not use or display Wizards' trademarks or copyrighted materials in a manner likely to create the impression that Wizards is an official sponsor or author of your Fan Site, or that Wizards endorses or has otherwise expressly licensed the Fan Site. Any endorsement or sponsorship must be approved by Wizards in a separate agreement. * Use Trademark and Copyright Notices. All Fan Sites must include the correct copyright and trademark information on each page that contains content related to Wizards' property. When referencing specific game names, game terms, or characters, the appropriate TM or ® should be used as provided in the relevant Tool Kit. For example, "Wizards of the Coast, Magic: The Gathering, and their logos are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the United States and other countries. © 2009 Wizards. All Rights Reserved." Further, on every page of a Fan Site where Wizards Materials appear, you must include the following notice in a font legible to end users of the Fan Site: "This [Web site] is not affiliated with, endorsed, sponsored, or specifically approved by Wizards of the Coast LLC. This [Web site] may use the trademarks and other intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast LLC, which is permitted under Wizards' Fan Site Policy [link]. For example, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, D&D®, PLAYER'S HANDBOOK 2®, and DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE® are trademark[s] of Wizards of the Coast and D&D® core rules, game mechanics, characters and their distinctive likenesses are the property of the Wizards of the Coast. For more information about Wizards of the Coast or any of Wizards' trademarks or other intellectual property, please visit their website at (www.wizards.com)." * Link to Wizards' Webpage, Not to a File. When providing links to Wizards' documents, we ask that Fan Sites link to the appropriate Wizards webpage and not directly to the document file. This allows users to access the most up-to-date information. * Trade Dress and Advertising Elements. Although imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, you may not imitate Wizards' logos, trade dress, or other elements of Wizards product packaging and website. Such imitation could result in confusion for others about a Fan Sites' affiliation with or sponsor ship by Wizards. * Merchandise Items Bearing Wizards' Trademarks or Materials: You may not manufacture, sell, or give away merchandise items such as T-shirts or mugs that bear any Wizards trademark or include Wizards' copyright materials, except pursuant to an express written trademark license. Wizards also reserves all rights to extend our copyrighted materials into other media. You may not write, produce or create any novels, theatrical productions or other adaptations that include our copyrighted materials without our express written permission. If you are interested in engaging in these activities, please contact www.wizards.com/customerservice. * You May Not Change or Manipulate Wizards' Audio-visual Materials. You may not download, display, exhibit or otherwise use sound tracks, sound bites, phonorecords, motion pictures, videos, DVD or other streamed moving images (either full-length or clips) from the Wizards website or other sources that contain Wizards copyrighted materials or trademarks except as provided in the tool kit. Such audio-visual materials often are subject to production and distribution agreements with third parties. Accordingly, you should only link to such material where it is hosted on our website unless otherwise provided to you in a tool kit. * You may not make content from the Wizards website (audio-visual materials excluded) available through your own site if such use entails Wizards hosting such content for you on Wizards' website. For example, you may not make available on a Fan Site any content from Wizards' Web site in a frame, mirror, Iframe, widget, nor may you link directly to a wallpaper file hosted on Wizards' website. * Inaccurate, Obscene or Libelous Statements Prohibited. Wizards welcomes and encourages honest discussion and opinions about all Wizards products on Fan Sites. However, we cannot allow Wizards Materials be used on any Fan Site that promotes sexually explicit materials, violence, discrimination or illegal activities, or makes disparaging, libelous or dishonest statements about Wizards and/or its products, employees and agents. We know you'll keep it clean. We Invite You to Ask Wizards In addition to visiting our website, Wizards invites you to ask us whatever questions you may have about using the Wizards Materials on your Fan Site. Please visit Wizards' customer service webpage www.wizards.com/customerservice. We will do our best to give you timely responses to your questions. Please be aware that there may be some questions that we cannot answer because the information is confidential, trade secret information that Wizards cannot release to the public. What if my Fan Site Doesn't Comply with the Policy? One last reminder from Wizards' legal. We love to see all the amazingly creative Fan Sites and hope that by clearly communicating the Policy for use of Wizards Materials, we can avoid misunderstandings regarding use of such materials on your Fan Site. However, if Wizards becomes aware of infringing and/or objectionable uses of Wizards Materials on your Fan Site, Wizards will contact you and/or your Fan Site operator to try to resolve the matter. If we are unable to reach a reasonable resolution, or if we become aware of a pattern of violations of our Policy, we may pursue appropriate legal action. Thank you in advance for your cooperation with this Policy.
#2 MattDroz Aug 06, 2009 19:37:09	free-to-use games, modules or applications Is there anything more specific on this? Would I be able to write up a history of a dwarven clan in the Forgotten Realms and publish it on my fan site?
#3 ascottbay Aug 06, 2009 21:22:35	Directly preceding the section that worries MattDroz is this: We encourage you to use these materials, post your character sheets for Dungeons & Dragons®, create fan fiction, display your personal artwork, and just have fun on your Fan Site. Could the background of a fan-created character, organization, culture, etc., be considered fan fiction? Such things are even less "game material" than character sheets, which They encourage you to share. But I can't give an official answer, so I won't answer my question to your question(s), just give it as something to think about.
#4 isenhertz Aug 07, 2009 5:23:33	That's not a fan site policy, that's more like a fan site license.
#5 Quintarius Aug 07, 2009 6:05:21	That's not a fan site policy, that's more like a fan site license. Hm would be if i would have to sign something...i just have to click accept.
#6 kimble Aug 07, 2009 8:59:31	They way a read it, it seems that the rules only apply if I: a) Use material from the WotC site, and/or; b) Use the fankit. "Please feel free to use these Tool Kits (...), but make sure your use of the Wizards Materials complies with the guidelines and stays within the permitted uses and policies set out in this Fan Site Policy (the "Policy")." And: "Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including (...) such use is subject to the Game System License" So if a use the 'tool kits' I have to follow the rules and the GSL. If I don´t, them only the GSL applies.
#7 kage_no_neko Aug 07, 2009 9:16:04	Maybe I read it to fast, but I see nothing about user created game content. I am not talking fan fiction, but things like user created races, classes, PP, ED, etcetera. For myself, I always toss a personal copyright notice on anything I put on the web and while I am fully willing to declaim anything WotC owns, they give no indication how to present, display, or copyright user created content.
#8 Mock Aug 07, 2009 9:29:55	So if a use the 'tool kits' I have to follow the rules and the GSL. If I don´t, them only the GSL applies. In both cases, don't you have to accept them? In other words, as I understand it, if you use the tool kits, you end up in GSL territory and Fan Site License territory. However, if you're not a GSL licensee, the only thing that applies is copyright law.
#9 kimble Aug 07, 2009 9:42:59	"In both cases, don't you have to accept them?" As I said: ""Please feel free to use these Tool Kits (...), but make sure your use of the Wizards Materials complies with the guidelines and stays within the permitted uses and policies set out in this Fan Site Policy (the "Policy")." The policy only applies if I use the Tool Kit. If I don´t, then I´m not a fansite ('per policy'), so I´m only limited by the GSL (as always).
#10 Mock Aug 07, 2009 10:28:56	"In both cases, don't you have to accept them?" As I said: ""Please feel free to use these Tool Kits (...), but make sure your use of the Wizards Materials complies with the guidelines and stays within the permitted uses and policies set out in this Fan Site Policy (the "Policy")." The policy only applies if I use the Tool Kit. If I don´t, then I´m not a fansite ('per policy'), so I´m only limited by the GSL (as always). Right. What I mean is, if you haven't accepted the GSL either, you are not subject to it - the basic point being that they're licenses, which you have to accept to take advantage of any additional rights/privileges they may grant. Otherwise, it's copyright/trademark law that you're limited by. I don't know if you're a GSL licensee, so I was making a general statement/question.
#11 rhialto Aug 07, 2009 12:02:50	I've read through it, and I'm puzzled. Other than having an extra pile of piccies to use, and an explicit statement that those are ok to use above and beyond normal fair usage rights, what would be gained exactly?
#12 Bargle0 Aug 07, 2009 12:25:45	I've read through it, and I'm puzzled. Other than having an extra pile of piccies to use, and an explicit statement that those are ok to use above and beyond normal fair usage rights, what would be gained exactly? Hasbro's boot on your neck.
#13 rhialto Aug 07, 2009 12:57:11	Hasbro's boot on your neck. That's not exactly an incentive.
#14 celloshane Aug 07, 2009 13:25:33	Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. For questions concerning digital rights for all other Wizards brands, please visit www.wizards.com/customerservice. This paragraph definately rings an alarm for me. If I read this correctly the fankit and the GSL are mutually exclusive. So if I start a website and then one day decide to post up a new monster, or a homebrewed class, or an adventure I've created, I'll be in violation of this policy. Also (if I'm reading this correctly) even if I agree to the GSL, I couldn't offer any of those items on a Fan Site even for free. Am I correct?
#15 CdrcJsn Aug 07, 2009 13:35:05	I've read through it, and I'm puzzled. Other than having an extra pile of piccies to use, and an explicit statement that those are ok to use above and beyond normal fair usage rights, what would be gained exactly? The reassurance that WotC has clearly delineated the lines which you shouldn't cross if you don't want their legal department to send you a cease and desist letter. Prior to this, all we had was guesswork on what was acceptable and what wasn't.
#16 rhialto Aug 07, 2009 14:29:18	The reassurance that WotC has clearly delineated the lines which you shouldn't cross if you don't want their legal department to send you a cease and desist letter. Prior to this, all we had was guesswork on what was acceptable and what wasn't. That fansite contract offers us stuff I don't care about (use of certain images, many of which I could use anyway in certain contexts under "fair use" laws) and takes away rights I have under fair usage and IP (ability to speak critically of WotC as long, as I don't slander or libel). It's of no use to me, and it's status as an offered contract rather than a general policy means that I'm under no obligation to accept it. If I'm misunderstanding it, please clear it up for me.
#17 ascottbay Aug 07, 2009 15:07:59	Maybe I read it to fast, but I see nothing about user created game content. I am not talking fan fiction, but things like user created races, classes, PP, ED, etcetera. For myself, I always toss a personal copyright notice on anything I put on the web and while I am fully willing to declaim anything WotC owns, they give no indication how to present, display, or copyright user created content. This paragraph definately rings an alarm for me. If I read this correctly the fankit and the GSL are mutually exclusive. So if I start a website and then one day decide to post up a new monster, or a homebrewed class, or an adventure I've created, I'll be in violation of this policy. Also (if I'm reading this correctly) even if I agree to the GSL, I couldn't offer any of those items on a Fan Site even for free. Am I correct? While I'm just a forum-goer and not a lawyer nor a WotC employee, the license itself says: Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. For questions concerning digital rights for all other Wizards brands, please visit www.wizards.com/customerservice. Emphasis mine. The fan site policy does not give you the right to publish/etc. game materials - but the GSL does. It says that to dismiss any implications that the fan site policy grants you permission to do things that it actually doesn't. And then it immediately tells you what license does grant such permission. However... * No Fee or E-Commerce Activity. Your Fan Site is for your own personal use. You may not charge any fee to customers or visitors to your Fan Site for use of the Wizards Materials that you have posted, unless such activity is specifically granted to you under the terms of the GSL or another separate written contract between you and Wizards. You may not engage in any e-commerce activities on your Fan Site including, but not limited to, sale of products or professional services. For purposes of this Policy, donations/tip jars and general advertising are not considered "e-commerce" activities. This section worries me far more. While it makes an exception for GSL products, it doesn't seem to limit itself to restricting Wizards-related e-commerce. If I have a very large site, and D&D is just one section of it, and I sell a cap that says "Scotty's Site" on it, and the cap has nothing to do with D&D, would I be in violation of the policy? --- Also, I agree with Rhialto on all points.
#18 Chandrak Aug 07, 2009 15:24:55	This section worries me far more. While it makes an exception for GSL products, it doesn't seem to limit itself to restricting Wizards-related e-commerce. If I have a very large site, and D&D is just one section of it, and I sell a cap that says "Scotty's Site" on it, and the cap has nothing to do with D&D, would I be in violation of the policy? I'm no lawyer, but that's definitely what its saying to me.
#19 Mock Aug 07, 2009 15:33:46	I'm no lawyer, but that's definitely what its saying to me. Agreed. No money stuff, period, save for donation PayPals or whatever. Edit: It's an effort to prevent fan site kit materials being used to attract visitors to a site that sells products (even unrelated ones). Don't use our images to sell your stuff.
#20 kythri Aug 08, 2009 1:13:08	The reassurance that WotC has clearly delineated the lines which you shouldn't cross if you don't want their legal department to send you a cease and desist letter. I hate junk mail, too.
#21 elfwench Aug 08, 2009 11:02:52	Hm would be if i would have to sign something...i just have to click accept. In this electronic age, clicking "I Accept" is the same as, and as legally binding as, a physical signature.
#22 Barmp Aug 08, 2009 11:04:19	It's about time this was released. Tho I must admit, it's considerably more limited than I had hoped. A few images we're not allowed to alter (save for resizing), more than half of which is just product plugs. It's pretty weak. I hope this is the first small step towards a better fansite offering, if not this really wasn't worth the wait. Would it really be a problem to open up the Art, Maps and Minis gallery in this way as well - since they are already available for all - and allow us to tailor the images to fit a site design?
#23 xyxox Aug 08, 2009 11:05:21	That's not a fan site policy, that's more like a fan site license. And you sign the license when you click "accept". Fortunately, I just clicked "Don't Accept", didn't download the file, and won't use the kit. I'm not bound by this license. Those who accept the license are bound by it. I doubt if it can be enforced, though, if you do not use anything contained within the kit. So basically, there is no fan site policy and WotC wants you to use their fan site kit so you are bound by their fan site kit license. Pay close attention to fair use precedent and you should be okay, so long as you do not use the fan site kit.
#24 xyxox Aug 08, 2009 11:10:04	They way a read it, it seems that the rules only apply if I: a) Use material from the WotC site, and/or; b) Use the fankit. "Please feel free to use these Tool Kits (...), but make sure your use of the Wizards Materials complies with the guidelines and stays within the permitted uses and policies set out in this Fan Site Policy (the "Policy")." And: "Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including (...) such use is subject to the Game System License" So if a use the 'tool kits' I have to follow the rules and the GSL. If I don´t, them only the GSL applies. If you use the kit, you are bound by the license (aka "fan site policy) which means you can only publish material under the GSL. If you do not use the kit, you are not bound by the license (aka "fan site policy) and can either publish material under the GSL or not. There are many publishers who are not bound by the GSL and are still publishing 4E compatible material. Kenzer and Co. is a good example of this.
#25 elfwench Aug 08, 2009 11:18:50	Maybe I read it to fast, but I see nothing about user created game content. I am not talking fan fiction, but things like user created races, classes, PP, ED, etcetera. For myself, I always toss a personal copyright notice on anything I put on the web and while I am fully willing to declaim anything WotC owns, they give no indication how to present, display, or copyright user created content. As I read it, it's not allowed as per the second paragraph: Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. For questions concerning digital rights for all other Wizards brands, please visit www.wizards.com/customerservice. So I guess, what I would like to know, what content is allowed to be posted on a fan site or blog either with or without the fan site kit? This is not a facetious question, I really would like to know.
#26 Hocus-Smokus Aug 08, 2009 11:49:28	So I guess, what I would like to know, what content is allowed to be posted on a fan site or blog either with or without the fan site kit? This is not a facetious question, I really would like to know. From what I can see, all you're really allowed to do is make a website where you talk about how awesome D&D is, but can't actually use any references, art, or details. Hmm. Sounds like a real hoot.
#27 MattDroz Aug 08, 2009 12:31:38	Here's an interesting blog on the subject: Wizards' Fan Site Kit is NOT a Fan Site Policy
#28 bone_naga Aug 09, 2009 12:41:47	Here's an interesting blog on the subject: Wizards' Fan Site Kit is NOT a Fan Site Policy Wow, some very good points made on that blog. Thanks for sharing that.
#29 The_Jester Aug 09, 2009 13:58:57	I’m not one for crazy internet forum hyperbole. I will admit to being a cranky, bitter, troll and occasionally exaggerating a bit, but I generally stay away from huge, grand statements of doom. But, wow, that policy is the BIGGEST pile of horse plop I have seen in YEARS. I was excited when I first saw the news on ENWorld, despite checking-out the WotC site on both Friday and Saturday. The fact that Wizbro couldn’t even be bothered to post a news announcement on the website should have been the first warning of trouble. The kit itself has no information, save for the licence that must be accepted. This was a sizable disappointment and problem. A fansite policy, by its very name and nature, is a non-legal policy for FANS outlining acceptable and inacceptable content. Fans with lawyers and the legal ability to sign a legally binding licence are not fans: they’re publishers. Heck, even one of the kind folks at ENWorld has popped-on and said they don’t have a lawyer on retainer. I do NOT feel comfortable signing a legal document to continue my fansite. Secondly, the contents of the Kit are a series of “approved” images and covers which they are allowing us to use for our site. This is very, very gracious of them, especially since we could already post images of the covers under fair use for purpose review. What other fun tidbits are in the abysmal licence? Wizards of the Coast LLC ("Wizards") is grateful for the enthusiastic and long-standing support our games have received from fans, customers, and collectors. We appreciate that user communities for our games enjoy sharing information, experiences, and opinions about our products, and we want to encourage that sharing. I actually chuckled at this statement. We want to encourage sharing, but please limit it to images and information we’ve already released (and you can’t host content from our site). Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands […] use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. For questions concerning digital rights for all other Wizards brands, please visit www.wizards.com/customerservice. What the…?? But the entire POINT of the fansite policy was that the GSL did NOT cover websites or free products!! In this very clause the fansite license fails at it’s very purpose. Fails disastrously. Fails at a scale worthy pf Failblog. The "suits" in Wizards' legal department require us to tell you that Wizards Materials in the Tool Kits are for your personal Fan Site use only, and that the rights and permissions we grant to you in this Policy are personal to you. You may not transfer or assign these rights to any third party. What about shared co-operatively run sites? * Use of Non-Public Information Prohibited. You may not publish, display, exhibit or use any information about products (including any photographs, game text, rules, or drawings of such new products or their prototypes) that has not already been released to the general public by Wizards or that Wizards has otherwise expressly authorized for release to the collector community. I can see a lot of people posting pictures from GenCon being upset with this. And that site that already has pictures of ever miniature form the new set. * * Use Trademark and Copyright Notices. All Fan Sites must include the correct copyright and trademark information on each page that contains content related to Wizards' property. When referencing specific game names, game terms, or characters, the appropriate TM or ® should be used as provided in the relevant Tool Kit. For example, "Wizards of the Coast, Magic: The Gathering, and their logos are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the United States and other countries. © 2009 Wizards. All Rights Reserved." Further, on every page of a Fan Site where Wizards Materials appear, you must include the following notice in a font legible to end users of the Fan Site: "This [Web site] is not affiliated with, endorsed, sponsored, or specifically approved by Wizards of the Coast LLC. This [Web site] may use the trademarks and other intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast LLC, which is permitted under Wizards' Fan Site Policy [link]. For example, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, D&D®, PLAYER'S HANDBOOK 2®, and DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE® are trademark[s] of Wizards of the Coast and D&D® core rules, game mechanics, characters and their distinctive likenesses are the property of the Wizards of the Coast. For more information about Wizards of the Coast or any of Wizards' trademarks or other intellectual property, please visit their website at (www.wizards.com)." A fansite SRD for this would be invaluable, giving examples for races, classes, worlds, settings, etc.
#30 narukagami Aug 09, 2009 16:37:50	This is the kind of bullcrap that helped put TSR out of business.
#31 The_Jester Aug 10, 2009 14:39:58	Here's the problem as I see it. The GSL is for professional publishers. It's for people producing for-profit material available in stores or for download. It's not a good fit for fans without lawyers who are publishing free material for themselves, their friends, their gaming groups, or a small community not served by WotC as a whole. The Fan Kit Licence is for fan's homepages. It's for people talking about their hobby; people having a site dedicated to their group and game. It's not for people producing any game material. The FSL makes sense from a greater Hasbro perspective. People creating Magic fan sites aren't likely to be creating usable cards. Neither are fan sites for Axis & Allies making minis. People with fan sites for Transformers or G.I.Joe or Barbie aren't making action figures. It's also a little unclear about how the two licences overlap, if at all. Having the GSL apply for fan sites that do more that regurgitate news or post fan fiction opens up a number of problems. * If you make a personalized world where elves are different you've redefined a term and are in violation of the GSL. *If you describe your world's cosmology and planes you are in violation of the GSL. * If you describe the fluff role of classes in your campaign such as the avengers or invokers you are in violation of the GSL. * If you make a new race, and mention it would work well with a class such as the shaman or warden you are in violation of the GSL. * If you make a racial feat for any of the above classes you are in violation of the GSL. * If you have a forum on your site, every participant must also sign the licence. If someone does not then you might be in violation of the FSL. Alot of the most dedicated and prolific fan site are also devoted to a particular setting. http://www.canonfire.com/ http://www.candlekeep.com/ http://www.planewalker.com/ http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/ http://www.athas.org/ http://www.dlnexus.com/ Some, like athas.org, even received permission to update the world to 3e. Neither the FSL and GSL address fan updates to worlds, or use of campaign worlds themselves. Reading between the lines of the FSL it might be possible, as long as all trademarks and copyrights are respected and noted as such at the end of the page, but this is still far from authoritative and still only applies to fanfic.
#32 mudbunny Aug 10, 2009 15:29:00	For what it's worth, I have poked WotC and asked them to give some clarification (if possible/permitted). I don't know if/when it will happen though...
#33 The_Jester Aug 10, 2009 23:18:29	I apologize if I seam snarky about this. This is just a policy I have been waiting for since the launch of 4e fourteen months ago. I was the first person to reply to the fansite policy thread back in mid-September of last year. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1089358 After waiting this long for a policy that was promised on launch and then being handed this self-defeating oxymoron of a policy I feel both disappointing an insulted. I understand the intent and reasoning behind this Fail of a policy (at least I think I do) -as stated in my earlier posts- but that doesn't make it any less abysmal. In true Wizbro form I expect a revision to this to follow in the same style as the GSL: six months later, after everyone has already committed to their plans and it's too late to matter.
#34 Titanium_Dragon Aug 11, 2009 0:00:59	This paragraph definately rings an alarm for me. If I read this correctly the fankit and the GSL are mutually exclusive. So if I start a website and then one day decide to post up a new monster, or a homebrewed class, or an adventure I've created, I'll be in violation of this policy. Also (if I'm reading this correctly) even if I agree to the GSL, I couldn't offer any of those items on a Fan Site even for free. Am I correct? You didn't understand what they were saying. The fan site policy/liscense grants you the ability to do certain things with limited WotC IP. This does not include the above. The above is not a violation of this liscense, it is not covered by this liscense. The fan site policy does not give you any rights to create such things that you would not otherwise be able to create. That is what that section says. That fansite contract offers us stuff I don't care about (use of certain images, many of which I could use anyway in certain contexts under "fair use" laws) and takes away rights I have under fair usage and IP (ability to speak critically of WotC as long, as I don't slander or libel). I agree. Really, the disparaging thing was buried, and I didn't even notice it the first three times I read it. That's really the only objectionable thing in there, other than inability to remix/alter their images/video, which is also dumb (as really, that's half the fun of a fansite, isn't it?). Rather dumb, really, as the latter provision only works against viral marketing. The former is just dumb, because it is buried in a paragraph so 99% of people won't even notice it, and then your legal will get mad, and it will be all your own fault. Really, why include that? Fansites always bash at least somewhat on what they fan about, I don't think its a really wise provision. Well, okay, the inability to use this when comparing stuff to other stuff is stupid as well. I forgot about that. Seriously, what do they think people are going to use these fansites for? ESPECIALLY considering you can just withdraw your permission to use this stuff for any reason, including these objectionable provisions is moronic. Mostly you shouldn't care, and if someone DOES do something really egregious, you can easily just invoke the "You can't use this stuff anymore" clause and be done with it. This is not, as others have stated, a fan site policy. This is a license for what amounts to a press kit. There is a huge difference between the two.
#35 itarakoturo Aug 11, 2009 3:31:35	I agree. Really, the disparaging thing was buried, and I didn't even notice it the first three times I read it. That's really the only objectionable thing in there, It's already been pointed out on other boards that "disparagement" has a specific legal definition which is probably being employed in the policy. In that sense, disparagement only refers to statements which are both false and demonstrably harmful to the property holder. To illustrate, claiming to have photographic evidence of WotC slaughtering sacred cows while chanting satanic rites might qualify as (ludicrous) disparagement. Criticizing a product you don't like is not disparagement. This isn't WotC trying to stamp out their critics. This is people on the internet without legal expertise trying to interpret a text filled with legal terminology.
#36 Beleriphon Aug 11, 2009 8:32:35	This isn't WotC trying to stamp out their critics. This is people on the internet without legal expertise trying to interpret a text filled with legal terminology. Exactly, generally speaking you say anything you like about any company or person provided that it is true, or clearly your own stupid opinion.
#37 mrmyth Aug 11, 2009 9:14:55	It's also a little unclear about how the two licences overlap, if at all. Having the GSL apply for fan sites that do more that regurgitate news or post fan fiction opens up a number of problems. * If you make a personalized world where elves are different you've redefined a term and are in violation of the GSL. *If you describe your world's cosmology and planes you are in violation of the GSL. * If you describe the fluff role of classes in your campaign such as the avengers or invokers you are in violation of the GSL. * If you make a new race, and mention it would work well with a class such as the shaman or warden you are in violation of the GSL. * If you make a racial feat for any of the above classes you are in violation of the GSL. * If you have a forum on your site, every participant must also sign the licence. If someone does not then you might be in violation of the FSL. But it only indicates the GSL applies if releasing adventures, modules or programs on your fansite. None of the above falls into that category. All of the above would, as far as I can tell, be allowed by the fansite policy and not require any contact with the GSL. The GSL only applies if you are specifically using it. You don't need to use it for a fansite except in specific cases, none of which those in your list seem to be. I definitely see a ton of room for improvement with the policy - I'd like more of a distinctin between a fan-made adventure and one released for profit, I'd like a general statement of what they feel is acceptable for all webpages (whether they are using the fankit or not), and the GSL should clear up its language about webpages to make it more compatible with this. But a lot of the concerns being raised seem to either come from a complete misreading of the policy, or the belief that the policy/GSL will be forcibly applied to those who haven't agreed to use them, or overlooking the actual legal meanings of certain terms. I mean, it isn't remotely perfect - but for someone who stays away from "crazy internet forum hyperbole" and "huge, grand statements of doom", I think you are making a lot of claims that have no actual basis in what the policy itself says... and I can understand your concern, but recommend taking a closer read of it, or directly contacting them for clarification (as the policy itself recommends you do on an area you aren't sure of.)
#38 The_Jester Aug 11, 2009 10:45:43	It's already been pointed out on other boards that "disparagement" has a specific legal definition which is probably being employed in the policy. In that sense, disparagement only refers to statements which are both false and demonstrably harmful to the property holder. [...] This isn't WotC trying to stamp out their critics. This is people on the internet without legal expertise trying to interpret a text filled with legal terminology. This is a perfect example of the problems with FSL. The sudden outrage over a misunderstanding because it was written by lawyers for lawyers instead of for common people running a website. But it only indicates the GSL applies if releasing adventures, modules or programs on your fansite. None of the above falls into that category. All of the above would, as far as I can tell, be allowed by the fansite policy and not require any contact with the GSL. It's a grey area. As you say, the FSL only really mentions the GSL in reference to modules and applications. However, I would assume "applications" includes races/classes rather than computer applications as the latter is also explicitly excluded by the GSL. My examples were all common examples of the type of content that would be released by a fansite that are NOT permitted under the GSL. But since the topic of modules was brought up in relation to the GSL: * What if I post an adventure that includes monsters not in the SRD? What if it only mentions them and does not include stats? * Given the licence is non-transferable and non=sharable how would collaborative storytelling be affected? Given an adventure log features characters created, run, and played by other people would I need to get them to sign the licence as well? * What if I update a module from an earlier edition? How much information am I allowed to post?
#39 The_Jester Aug 11, 2009 10:50:20	I mean, it isn't remotely perfect - but for someone who stays away from "crazy internet forum hyperbole" and "huge, grand statements of doom", I think you are making a lot of claims that have no actual basis in what the policy itself says... and I can understand your concern, but recommend taking a closer read of it, or directly contacting them for clarification (as the policy itself recommends you do on an area you aren't sure of.) I'm not so much making claims as trying to figure out exactly how the policy will affect me and my world-specific fansite that features updated and re-fluffling. And believe me, once I think I have enough of a list of questions to be comprehensive, I will be asking customer service.
#40 killer_dm_dup Aug 11, 2009 12:33:37	I personally found it mildly humorous that on a fan site for a game about killing and maiming, promoting violence is a violation and a company that put b**bs on a dragon born does not want people talking about sex :D
#41 mrmyth Aug 11, 2009 13:50:40	However, I would assume "applications" includes races/classes rather than computer applications as the latter is also explicitly excluded by the GSL. I would be incredibly surprised by that. I see absolutely no support for that interpretation of the word. My examples were all common examples of the type of content that would be released by a fansite that are NOT permitted under the GSL. Correct. But the fansite and the GSL are different areas with different policies, and only specific elements are called out as falling under the GSL. You seem to be interpreting "applications" to mean "anything that could be applied to D&D"... which is essentially anything at all. I think that is at the heart of your panic over this, and that without that interpretation - which would honestly contradict with other parts of the document - there isn't nearly as much to be concerned about. But since the topic of modules was brought up in relation to the GSL: * What if I post an adventure that includes monsters not in the SRD? What if it only mentions them and does not include stats? * Given the licence is non-transferable and non=sharable how would collaborative storytelling be affected? Given an adventure log features characters created, run, and played by other people would I need to get them to sign the licence as well? I'm not really going to weigh in on the adventure aspect, since I've admitted that may well be an issue, and I haven't delved into the GSL itself enough to know the answer to the first question. As far as characters and adventure logs - neither of those is actually part of an adventure, as I would consider it. Unless you are including those characters as pre-generated PCs for the adventure (in which case they would need to abide by the GSL), those elements are simply a game report - again, not something that the fansite license requires operate by the GSL. I do absolutely understand that this affects you directly, and you want to be certain WotC isn't going to come after you. I am pretty confident that isn't the case - but, of course, I Am Not A Lawyer, and I'm just going on my interpretation of what the policy says. You absolutely should take this to customer service and see what they say. My concern is that a lot of people seem to be coming up with half-baked theories about what this means, and even if those are founded in honest misinterpretations, the more they get posted in threads like this, the more panicked people get - and the more those misinterpretations are repeated elsewhere.
#42 The_Jester Aug 13, 2009 13:53:03	For anyone interested, I sent off an e-mail to customer service regarding my questions. They replied once within 24 hours saying they were escalating it for future review and to expect a reply in 24-48 hours. And a different person replied (fairly quickly) to say they were again escalating the questions and to expect a reply within 2 weeks. So the questions have been asked and are bouncing around and we'll see what happens.
#43 feyberry Aug 14, 2009 8:35:43	Just ignore the GSL and Fansite License and do whatever you want to do. There's nothing they can do to stop you from publishing and/or selling your own monsters and classes and more, as long as you don't violate the copyright of images or fluff text. Rules cannot be copyrighted. They can be patented, but I'd love to see WotC try to patent anything to do with RPG's considering how many other companies out there would stir up a .
#44 malisteen Aug 14, 2009 11:47:22	Great. All that wait for a fansite policy, and instead we get a fansite liscence that doesn't clarify what I can and cannot put on a site unless I sign onto said liscence, in which case the answer is that I cannot do anything that a D&D fansite would do (review products in a critical manner, describe homebrew settings and material, etc). Not only unhelpful, but actually counterproductive. There go my 4e fansite plans.
#45 killer_dm_dup Aug 14, 2009 13:11:07	For anyone interested, I sent off an e-mail to customer service regarding my questions. They replied once within 24 hours saying they were escalating it for future review and to expect a reply in 24-48 hours. And a different person replied (fairly quickly) to say they were again escalating the questions and to expect a reply within 2 weeks. So the questions have been asked and are bouncing around and we'll see what happens. thank you, let us know what they say.
#46 The_Jester Aug 14, 2009 20:08:35	thank you, let us know what they say. Will do. The issue has suddenly become more time sensitive. First there's the announcement of Dark Sun as the 2010 campaign setting. As has been pointed out earlier, athas.org had permission to update Dark Sun for 3e and has released several large guides to the world. These might contain fluff and content that directly overlaps with soon to be published books, and the site's message boards are probably full of advice and home rules for a 4e conversion. And then there's the Tomb or Horrors, the 2010 super adventure. One only has to scan signatures of the WotC boards to see a half-dozen people working on their updates. We NEED a definitive, expansive, and plain-language policy! That or a lawyer hired by Wizbro to frequent this forum dispensing legal advice (to avoid the dozens of contradictory posts that answer questions but preface their answer with "no I'm not a lawyer but...").
#47 The_Jester Aug 28, 2009 10:36:33	For anyone interested, I sent off an e-mail to customer service regarding my questions. They replied once within 24 hours saying they were escalating it for future review and to expect a reply in 24-48 hours. And a different person replied (fairly quickly) to say they were again escalating the questions and to expect a reply within 2 weeks. So the questions have been asked and are bouncing around and we'll see what happens. thank you, let us know what they say. Will do. It has been two weeks since my initial reply so, as per the instructions in the e-mail, I will be replying to the message to " inquire about the status of [my] request." I'll wait a few more hours until we're more into the buisness day to give PST office workers a chance to get started. Really, I don't expect a reply before Monday, if ever. They've had since Mudbunny poked them well over two weeks ago to get a message out to the fans and the silence has been deafening. For what it's worth, I have poked WotC and asked them to give some clarification (if possible/permitted). I don't know if/when it will happen though... I think the FSL is what we get and they're leaving the grey areas as clear as mud purpously so they can do what they want later.
#48 The_Jester Aug 30, 2009 23:42:25	To keep people in the loop I recieved a reply on Saturday (weekend, wow) replying that they were still looking into my questions regarding the Fan Site Licence.  Only this newest reply lacked an "reply to this e-mail after X time" clause, so now I have to wait an indeterminante/indefinite time before I can respond again. Having been in customer service I know being passed around repeatedly ussually leads to being forgotten and sometimes you just hope the problematic patron or incident just gets fed-up with waiting and goes away. I can't help but feel like they're just hoping I lose interest. Still, finger's crossed. I'll post again if the respond and as I learn more about the FSL.
#49 The_Jester Sep 17, 2009 15:35:52	Two-plus weeks since I was last contacted about my question and well-after a month since I initially asked my question.  I decided to wait until now to fill-out the linked survey. You can imagine how the service rates now.  I have been ignored. They really care about Fan Sites. I await the fun cease-and-desist letters.
#50 The_Jester Feb 23, 2010 21:46:28	My last post about the Fan Site Licence was six months ago, and the actual licence was released 7 months ago.  Reminded of my old, abated outrage after spotting a bump to the ol' Fan Site Policy thread.  Wandering around google, the only noteworthy sites I can find referencing the kit are:   d7.pipemaze.com/blog/2009/08/07/wizards-... daegames.blogspot.com/2009/08/wotc-fansi... mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/wizards... I wonder... is anyone actually using it? I'm pretty sure everyone just ignored the EULA-esque page of legalese and continued to make their GSL violating website as per normal. Or, like Kobold Quarterly, just stuck close to copyright.  I don't think WotC could have more effectively pushed people to just not to care about their I.P. and trademarks if they tried.