GSL and D&D Essentials - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

GSL and D&D Essentials

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
yaldabaoth
Jul 10, 2010 13:57:35
GSL and Essentials. What (if anything) will change? Possibilities:

Nothing will change. [I doubt it; if anything Monster Stat block templates should be different]

The GSL SRD will be revised, but much of the content will not change... only the references to where to find the stuff. [More likely except for stuff that's not in Essentials.]

The terms of the GSL will change along with with a revision of the SRD. [Less likely, and the only logical change would be to loosen it up, which may again be unlikely.]

The GSL will be retired. This option comes in two flavors.
It is replaced by a d20 GSL. Or a 4e OGL. Or something. [Unlikely?]

It is not replaced. Ouch. [I hope this does not come to pass.]

[Any other possibilities?]

AND ANOTHER THING...
Tightly binding world-specific flavor with things like races brings up some questions regarding redefining terms like "Human", which is a no-no for the GSL. If the definition in Essentials is that Humans are from Nerath, and you (licensee) talk about some other origin for people, are you redefining Humans as not being from Nerath, and thus breaking the GSL (in actuality, if not in spirit)? Of course, this may depend on how the SRD refers to Essentials stuff....
#2
ascottbay
Jul 11, 2010 0:23:50 I doubt that the Essentials content will be added to the 4E SRD. Unless I've missed them, no one at WotC is paying the GSL any mind anymore, even. I'd like them to - terrain power templates would make me feel easier about including them (although since we can create terrain, it might not be strictly necessary); and MM3 has some good monsters I'd suggest adding or changing into encounters in a heartbeat. There are also hybrids and PHB3 classes that others want addressed. But without Mr. Rouse, I'm not sure anyone's still championing the cause in Wizbro.

From the SRD, page 2, re: new monster statblocks:
Use the stat block templates identified and included in the SRD as guidelines (not constraints) for producing your own original content requiring such formatting. Since your content will resemble like content in the Core Rulebooks, it will be more readily usable.

I'm also of the mind that GSL publishers should be making original content, and using the templates and keywords rather than the giant lists of powers/feats/monsters; occasionally monster references are good, and occasionally there are rules references to make, but: the monsters are still from the MM1/2, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Essentials Rules Compendium organizes its contents by the original rulebooks something appeared in - which lends some validation to the prohibition of page numbers in references, as "page X of the DMG" is useless, but "Section Ymph of the PHB's chapter on Xorph" might be something one can follow in the Compendium's table of contents.

I invite any WotC_ to speak up and prove me wrong (on the no-updates bit). I really want you to.
#3
Siberys
Jul 12, 2010 17:34:44 Even disregarding Essentials, I really hope that they update the SRD at some point. I'm designing a race - despite crunch not selling well, I know - and I'd like to include racial feats tying into all of the classes. I'm not sure I can, under the GSL.
#4
The_Jester
Jul 13, 2010 0:10:40 Have they even updated for PHB3 and MM3 yet?
#5
603
Aug 02, 2010 13:45:52 I asked this months ago when PHB3 first came out, and the feeling I got was that WotC had no intention of ever updating the SRD ever again. Some forum members then went on to say that a ridiculously out-of-date SRD was "to encourage creativity."

One thing for sure, if I ever end up developing for a commercial RPG, its almost definitely not going to be any OGL/GSL product. I'd rather write and test an entirely new set of rules than deal with "Oh, you can't do that because WotC already did it in Book X, which will never be in the SRD."
#6
The_Jester
Aug 02, 2010 20:10:14 It's extra disappointing for people playing seekers and runepriests. Six-twelve months with no real support save the online magazines and not even 3PP to pick-up the slack.
#7
malcolm_northwinter
Sep 09, 2010 22:10:09 In all fairness to WotC, the OGL for 3.5 wasn't all encompassing either. It included monsters in MM1, the PHB and the DMG and that was it.
The new GSL has 10 of the 11 classes from the OGL (the 3.5 core classes sans the monk), it added the warlock and the warlord. It includes most of the nonspecific D&D monsters from MM1 and 2, and has rules to follow for DMs as per the DMG + updates.

The obvious inclusions aside, Although one cannot create a new build for the runepriest or the seeker, there's nothing stopping a 3pp from creating their own ranged primal striker or yet another divine leader class. They just have to be distinguishable and able to stand on their own. Northwinter Press was able to include a different take on a primal leader and defender, since the shaman and the warden aren't in the GSL, and the playtests have shown they're fun and enjoyable to play.

It's all in how you work with what you're given. I totally agree with the above post that the GSL is left obscure because it's only there to help guide 3pp, not give us WotC's hard work to turn to our own devices.

I like to treat designing roleplaying rules as if designing for clothes. I have my style, and WotC provides the layout. It's up to me to blend the two well into a product worth buying. I feel like I can continue to accomplish that for plenty of books to come within our line.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yaldabaoth Jul 10, 2010 13:57:35	GSL and Essentials. What (if anything) will change? Possibilities: Nothing will change. [I doubt it; if anything Monster Stat block templates should be different] The GSL SRD will be revised, but much of the content will not change... only the references to where to find the stuff. [More likely except for stuff that's not in Essentials.] The terms of the GSL will change along with with a revision of the SRD. [Less likely, and the only logical change would be to loosen it up, which may again be unlikely.] The GSL will be retired. This option comes in two flavors. It is replaced by a d20 GSL. Or a 4e OGL. Or something. [Unlikely?] It is not replaced. Ouch. [I hope this does not come to pass.] [Any other possibilities?] AND ANOTHER THING... Tightly binding world-specific flavor with things like races brings up some questions regarding redefining terms like "Human", which is a no-no for the GSL. If the definition in Essentials is that Humans are from Nerath, and you (licensee) talk about some other origin for people, are you redefining Humans as not being from Nerath, and thus breaking the GSL (in actuality, if not in spirit)? Of course, this may depend on how the SRD refers to Essentials stuff....
#2 ascottbay Jul 11, 2010 0:23:50	I doubt that the Essentials content will be added to the 4E SRD. Unless I've missed them, no one at WotC is paying the GSL any mind anymore, even. I'd like them to - terrain power templates would make me feel easier about including them (although since we can create terrain, it might not be strictly necessary); and MM3 has some good monsters I'd suggest adding or changing into encounters in a heartbeat. There are also hybrids and PHB3 classes that others want addressed. But without Mr. Rouse, I'm not sure anyone's still championing the cause in Wizbro. From the SRD, page 2, re: new monster statblocks: Use the stat block templates identified and included in the SRD as guidelines (not constraints) for producing your own original content requiring such formatting. Since your content will resemble like content in the Core Rulebooks, it will be more readily usable. I'm also of the mind that GSL publishers should be making original content, and using the templates and keywords rather than the giant lists of powers/feats/monsters; occasionally monster references are good, and occasionally there are rules references to make, but: the monsters are still from the MM1/2, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Essentials Rules Compendium organizes its contents by the original rulebooks something appeared in - which lends some validation to the prohibition of page numbers in references, as "page X of the DMG" is useless, but "Section Ymph of the PHB's chapter on Xorph" might be something one can follow in the Compendium's table of contents. I invite any WotC_ to speak up and prove me wrong (on the no-updates bit). I really want you to.
#3 Siberys Jul 12, 2010 17:34:44	Even disregarding Essentials, I really hope that they update the SRD at some point. I'm designing a race - despite crunch not selling well, I know - and I'd like to include racial feats tying into all of the classes. I'm not sure I can, under the GSL.
#4 The_Jester Jul 13, 2010 0:10:40	Have they even updated for PHB3 and MM3 yet?
#5 603 Aug 02, 2010 13:45:52	I asked this months ago when PHB3 first came out, and the feeling I got was that WotC had no intention of ever updating the SRD ever again. Some forum members then went on to say that a ridiculously out-of-date SRD was "to encourage creativity." One thing for sure, if I ever end up developing for a commercial RPG, its almost definitely not going to be any OGL/GSL product. I'd rather write and test an entirely new set of rules than deal with "Oh, you can't do that because WotC already did it in Book X, which will never be in the SRD."
#6 The_Jester Aug 02, 2010 20:10:14	It's extra disappointing for people playing seekers and runepriests. Six-twelve months with no real support save the online magazines and not even 3PP to pick-up the slack.
#7 malcolm_northwinter Sep 09, 2010 22:10:09	In all fairness to WotC, the OGL for 3.5 wasn't all encompassing either. It included monsters in MM1, the PHB and the DMG and that was it. The new GSL has 10 of the 11 classes from the OGL (the 3.5 core classes sans the monk), it added the warlock and the warlord. It includes most of the nonspecific D&D monsters from MM1 and 2, and has rules to follow for DMs as per the DMG + updates. The obvious inclusions aside, Although one cannot create a new build for the runepriest or the seeker, there's nothing stopping a 3pp from creating their own ranged primal striker or yet another divine leader class. They just have to be distinguishable and able to stand on their own. Northwinter Press was able to include a different take on a primal leader and defender, since the shaman and the warden aren't in the GSL, and the playtests have shown they're fun and enjoyable to play. It's all in how you work with what you're given. I totally agree with the above post that the GSL is left obscure because it's only there to help guide 3pp, not give us WotC's hard work to turn to our own devices. I like to treat designing roleplaying rules as if designing for clothes. I have my style, and WotC provides the layout. It's up to me to blend the two well into a product worth buying. I feel like I can continue to accomplish that for plenty of books to come within our line.