GSL and my website

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ellanon

Jun 19, 2008 13:26:04		A few friends and I post our custom content on my website using the Wiki format. Does the GSL apply to us?
#2

vaalingrade_ashland_02

Jun 19, 2008 13:29:46 		A specific fan-site... thing will be out soon they say.

I too have a 4e site in limbo waiting for this.
#3

ellanon

Jun 19, 2008 13:38:41 		Thank you both. I'll tell my people to carry on with their creative natures. =)
#4

epochgames

Jun 19, 2008 14:33:15 		WEll, look at it this way. Since WotC has not put out a specific fansite...license...agreement...whatever they decide to call it...you have the same rights you have always had. Furthermore, even in light of many people's cries of outrage in reference to the new GSL, there are things on this very forum that are not in line with the GSL, and in some cases, would even fail in court in regards to copyright, but WotC isn't calling foul, removing posts, sending C&D notices...Wiz is not out there to stomp the little guy. Even when they put out their new rules for fansites, many sites won't comply, and we're not going to see them shut down in droves. I just don't see it, although (for those who want to argue the point) yes, it could happen. Hey, if you have something that's a big enough money maker to draw the eyes of WotC, you should probably look at negotiating a separate license/contract.
#5

2goth4U

Jun 19, 2008 14:49:25
A few friends and I post our custom content on my website using the Wiki format. Does the GSL apply to us?

not at this time.

3. Licensed Products. The license granted in Section 4 is for use solely in connection with Licensee’s publication, distribution, and sale of roleplaying games and roleplaying game supplements that contain the Licensed Materials and are published in a hardcover or soft-cover printed book format or in a single-download electronic book format (such as .pdf), and accessory products to the foregoing roleplaying games and roleplaying game supplements that are not otherwise listed as excluded in Section 5.5 (“Licensed Products”).

but that could change if they revise the license.
#6

ellanon

Jun 19, 2008 14:59:45 		That's just it, we're not making any money. Nothing we do is for sale. In addition, the general license I have on the wiki is that you CANNOT use anything on my site for money making purposes. We're just posting custom powers, classes, etc. for use by our friends and fellow gamers.

I just want to make sure my website is not going to get the big blue foot...
#7

Barmp

Jun 19, 2008 15:13:21 		You could PM Scott Rouse and see if you get a resposne, I suppose the worst thing that happens is a C&D order is sent and you have to kill access to the site until things are cleared up.

Hopefully the fansite license / agreement is up soon so we can stop wondering and get to all the knee-jerk reactions and tinfoil hat discussions.
#8

2goth4U

Jun 19, 2008 15:49:51 		but if you read Section 3 of the contract...

making money is not relevant.

it is a license to distribute, publish and sell material in a specified format.

web sites is not among the format listed so technically there is no license currently available making it legal for you to call it compatible with 4th Edition or use Wizards logos, etc.

however, you are distributing and publishing even if you give it away freely.

Stay away from copyrighted terms
#9

llewelyn_mt

Jun 19, 2008 17:46:52
A specific fan-site... thing will be out soon they say.

I guess they learned that giving dates is bad if you can't keep them, like the 2 weeks delay for GSL & SRD. therefore they've written this:
Wizards will release a fansite policy in the future that will offer a limited license for specified uses.

The word "soon" is a very optimistic view of the situation, that is really irritating if you want to publish anything, even as fan materials. We're not even told when we're going to learn that. I collaborate with the Polish Official D&D Fansite. It's not very nice that we're not told what and when can we publish. People demand rules clarifications and original game material from us. We can't even predict when we'll be able to provide it.

I browsed the GSL and FAQ file yesterday and if the Fansite License is going to be anywhere near that we're going to get into trouble more often then not. Let's take this example:
Q: Can I extend the definition of a Defined Term?
A: No. You cannot change the substance or the meaning of the definition.

What does that mean exactly? Is posting a wrong interpretation of rules or a house rule on a public forum against the GSL?

The SRD is hardly pleasing too.
The evil wizard might use a power to push a PC off the ledge. See the Dungeons & Dragons⁚ 4th Edition⁚ PLAYER’S HANDBOOK⁚, First Printing: June 2008, published by Wizards of the Coast⁚, ISBN-13: 978-0786948673 for rules on Pull⁚, Push⁚, and Slide⁚ and on Falling⁚. We cannot give you the exact page where you can find it, just like for the other rules we cite and cite all over again, but since you have bought our fine product and you already own the Dungeons & Dragons⁚ 4th Edition⁚ PLAYER’S HANDBOOK⁚, First Printing: June 2008, published by Wizards of the Coast⁚, ISBN-13: 978-0786948673; Dungeons & Dragons⁚ 4th Edition⁚ DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE⁚, First Printing: June 2008, published by Wizards of the Coast⁚, ISBN-13: 978-0786948802; and Dungeons & Dragons⁚ 4th Edition⁚ MONSTER MANUAL⁚, First Printing: June 2008, published by Wizards of the Coast⁚, ISBN-13: 978-0786948529 then our team, dedicated to provide quality entertainment for an affordable price, is most certain that you, a person participating in the game of Dungeons & Dragons⁚ 4th Edition⁚, later referred to as The Player, can find these rules therein being given the name of the specific maneuver alone.

You have to have volume to sell big, right?
#10

hellmute

Jun 19, 2008 18:22:45
What does that mean exactly?

It means all elves or halflings must be as described in the PHB or MM. You cannot create another form of elf or halfling. No desert halflings or wood elves as that would "extend" the definition changing the substance of the defined term.

You can create another race similar to haflings with another name entirely.
#11

epochgames

Jun 19, 2008 20:06:37
It means all elves or halflings must be as described in the PHB or MM. You cannot create another form of elf or halfling. No desert halflings or wood elves as that would "extend" the definition changing the substance of the defined term.

You can create another race similar to haflings with another name entirely.

From what I've been told, but it's just my lawyer's interpretation, so take it for what you will: you can create Desert Haflings, for example. The reference is specifically "Halfings." To try to exaggerate that beyond is like trying to say you cannot add a new type of "humanoid," because that is an extension of a definition, which of course goes against the spirit of the GSL and the wording of the SRD.
#12

hellmute

Jun 19, 2008 21:44:54 		Then why does the FAQ contradict the GSL?
#13

epochgames

Jun 19, 2008 22:06:38 		Actually, it doesn't. The FAQ uses the Athletics skill as an example, saying you can expand upon a definition. But, you can't change what's already there. So, since Elves exist, you can't change them, but you can add to them, and one of the common additions that have been used time and again in the past is to add a variant race. You're not changing the definition of Elf, but adding something new in Uber Elf.
#14

hellmute

Jun 19, 2008 22:28:54 		So someone could create Complete Book of Elves, by just introducing new elves?

They could also include new types of vision such as dark, infra, etc?

One stype of elves included could have an ability to pick pockets requiring a d100 check?
#15

dcanderson

Jun 19, 2008 22:34:33
So someone could create Complete Book of Elves, by just introducing new elves?

They could also include new types of vision such as dark, infra, etc?

One stype of elves included could have an ability to pick pockets requiring a d100 check?

Yes, they could.
#16

leaderdesslok

Jun 19, 2008 23:41:19 		At this point I'm going to go with an optimistic view of fan sites and suggest that they will be far more lenient with them than with a for-profit web site. you probably have nothing to worry about.

We (and I include myself in this) have too many bad memories of the T$R attack on fan sites, and it is most likely not fair to Wizards.
#17

JohnLynch

Jun 19, 2008 23:53:09
So someone could create Complete Book of Elves, by just introducing new elves?

They could also include new types of vision such as dark, infra, etc?

One stype of elves included could have an ability to pick pockets requiring a d100 check?

However you'd have to be careful not to infringe on WotC's IP. Creating a Desert Elf that is a carbon copy of elves from Dark Sun wouldn't be allowed. That's got nothing to do with the GSL but is simply copyright law.
#18

epochgames

Jun 20, 2008 1:13:49 		I'd probably rename the Complete Book of Elves to something else too, maybe Variant Book of Elves or Book of Variant Elves--after all, you can't really put the original elves in there.

As an aside, is it interesting that you can use Feywild in terms of powers and abilities, but not Feywild itself? Or, since Feywild isn't copyrighted and it isn't in the SRD, it's not a reference and therefore can be redefined? just a thought, something to pass along to a lawyer, I suppose.
#19

the_almighty_onion

Jun 20, 2008 1:40:49 		I don't think the Complete Book of Elves would be a kosher title. TSR released a book of the same name way back when, pretty sure the name is WotC's now and they wouldn't appreciate it being used, or any direct derivitive of it.