Could a third party publisher sell down loadable components for the virtual game table, i.e. virtual mini's, dungeon tiles and already build dungeons for the game table? I'm just wondering if such digital components are also covered by the GSL?
I don't think so. It's my understanding that the GSL will contain the same language as Wotc's last d20 STL and that STL specifically forbad any 'interactive' software which would be anything compatible with the virtual game table, and definately any character generator. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding, i.e. Wotc wants to keep the virtual game table (playground) all to itself.
-Polaris
I remember reading that people would be able to upload their own textures for the tiles.
I heard that too. If that is true then at least there is room for fan produced downloadable content. That is why I was wondering. I also thought I heard rumors of special digital tool kits for third party publishers as well. Could be a rumor. Well we shall see in in June.
I don't think so. It's my understanding that the GSL will contain the same language as Wotc's last d20 STL and that STL specifically forbad any 'interactive' software which would be anything compatible with the virtual game table, and definately any character generator. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding, i.e. Wotc wants to keep the virtual game table (playground) all to itself.
-Polaris
The d20STL didn't prevent anyone from making a character generator or VGT. PCGen was d20 compliant for about a year. You just can't have any random die rolls that are generated & assigned. Numbers can be generated and as long as the user is the one placing them in the locations they want.
Fantasy Grounds is still d20 compliant AFAIK and it's a virtual game table.
The d20STL didn't prevent anyone from making a character generator or VGT. PCGen was d20 compliant for about a year. You just can't have any random die rolls that are generated & assigned. Numbers can be generated and as long as the user is the one placing them in the locations they want.
Fantasy Grounds is still d20 compliant AFAIK and it's a virtual game table.
I'm sorry but I am very sure that's false. This discussion was on EN World and the last version of the d20 STL specifically forbad any interactive data as part of the STL and we were told rather specifically that such language would be included in the GSL. In any event we were told on EN world specifically that Character Generators and other such software would be explicitly excluded.
-Polaris
I'm sorry but I am very sure that's false.
And you're wrong. Both Nylan and I were on the PCGen team (which is a chargen) and it *was* D20 complaint, and vetted as such by WotC itself.
This discussion was on EN World and the last version of the d20 STL specifically forbad any interactive data as part of the STL and we were told rather specifically that such language would be included in the GSL. In any event we were told on EN world specifically that Character Generators and other such software would be explicitly excluded.
-Polaris
No you weren't told that. I've read those same posts/forums, and there's a bunch of wild speculation about that, but no official, confirmed information. As long as the language is the same as that in the d20 STL, chargens and VTs are just fine.
The relevant section from the d20 System Guide:
"Interactive Game: means a piece of software that is designed to accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve the success or failure of those inputs, and return some indication of the results of those inputs to the users. Success and failure includes any determination wherein one outcome is preferable to another. This includes the random determination of hit points, ability scores, and the like."
So as long as the *program* doesn't "use rules to resolve the success or failure", you don't have an issue. Having a random number generated but assigned by the user is *not* the program determining a success or failure, so it would pass fine.
I am very sure that's a logical OR not a logical AND. Regardless we'll know for sure in about two weeks, but I am certain that the GSL will forbid character generators or anything that requires an interactive user input. In fact I am certain (and so are a lot of other people) that the GSL will forbid non-Wotc character generators.
So I'd read those posts carefully before declaring me wrong. Just saying.
-Polaris
I am very sure that's a logical OR not a logical AND.
You're sure about a lot of things apparently. Do you even read the posts you reply to? How can you confuse the word "and" for "or"???
Again, directly from the d20 STL Guide on the wizards site: "accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve..."
Besides, even if the language is unclear to you for whatever reason, it is demonstrably a logical AND, not a logical OR.
Demonstrated conclusively (mentioned in my previous post even!) by the simple fact the PCGen was a d20 STL product for over a year, and verified as such by WotC. It accepted user input even back then... therefor, it *must* be an AND or WotC would not have blessed it.
Finally, while a lot of people are "certain" they will specifically put in a clause forbidding other chargens, I would remind you that a lot of people were "certain" there wasn't going to be any license at all... and we see how that turned out, no?
Sorry, but the d20 STL used to allow such things as PC Gen. They do so no longer. This was made very clear by the Wotc reps on EN World and if the GSL has the same language as the last d20 STL, then things like PC Gen will be forbidden as well.
You can think what you like. Why you think it's worth arguing over is beyond me since we will be able to see for ourselves in two weeks, but I KNOW what Wotc has said on EN World.
You USED to be able to make character generators under the d20 STL and it USED to be interpreted as you say. It is no longer.
-Polaris
"Could a third party publisher sell down loadable components for the virtual game table, i.e. virtual mini's, dungeon tiles and already build dungeons for the game table? I'm just wondering if such digital components are also covered by the GSL?"
He did not ask if you could build a generator using the GSL. Just thought I'd bring the original question back to the table.
Whether they will be available for purchase by by subscribers is a different question.
You might ask in the D&Di Technical forum.
All this back and forth drama does not answer the original question.
"Could a third party publisher sell down loadable components for the virtual game table, i.e. virtual mini's, dungeon tiles and already build dungeons for the game table? I'm just wondering if such digital components are also covered by the GSL?"
He did not ask if you could build a generator using the GSL. Just thought I'd bring the original question back to the table.
Exactly. I never asked about a character generator.
So far, no-one knows. What has been indicated is that there will be pregenerated characters that you could grab ("What, I need a L5 paladin? Let me go grab one from the library"), and that there is a very good chance that people will be able to upload their own textures. (See the D&Di forums, specifically one of the posts by WotC_DM.) It therefore makes sense that they will have pre-generated dungeons available.
Whether they will be available for purchase by by subscribers is a different question.
You might ask in the D&Di Technical forum.
OK
Could a third party publisher sell down loadable components for the virtual game table, i.e. virtual mini's, dungeon tiles and already build dungeons for the game table? I'm just wondering if such digital components are also covered by the GSL?
Hi all,
I apologize for not replying to this question sooner. Questions as to what is allowable under the GSL are very tough for me to answer since it's really a legal issue and I am not able to make calls or provide advice in that area.
The answers to what is and isn't allowed can really only be answered by reading the GSL itself. I'm not trying to be dodgy, but this is one of those areas where we have to be careful that we're not offering legal advice.
-Mike
Hi all,
I apologize for not replying to this question sooner. Questions as to what is allowable under the GSL are very tough for me to answer since it's really a legal issue and I am not able to make calls or provide advice in that area.
The answers to what is and isn't allowed can really only be answered by reading the GSL itself. I'm not trying to be dodgy, but this is one of those areas where we have to be careful that we're not offering legal advice.
-Mike
Thank you Mike. I guess I shall need a little patients, one more week isn;t that long.
P>S> Thanks for the show. Please keep it up.