I had previously made the suggestion that I'd like to see some of the great talent on these boards and from elsewhere band together to create some wonderful GSL material--be it for free or for profit.
There was definitley some interest from varied parties, although one member had a great question in regards to how such a project would be managed. There are a lot of answers for this. The true answer I think is that it wouldn't end up being just one project, but many--from varied websites to small publishing houses and design studios.
Without completely derailing that other thread, I wanted to allow the discussion to continue...here, hopefully.
Ever since I started 3.0 back in 2000 this had become one of my huge dreams. I mean you sit there and look at it and think "THIS IS WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING? SWEET!"
It's been a long 8 years and i'm 23 now. I really have no idea how I would even get started on a career towards this sort of field but i do know FOR SURE that one way is to start off small and just hope that you pump out good enough quality that you get noticed by the big guy. That or you and your band of merry men (and women) are successful and can be competitive without having to work for the big guy.
Somehow I don't think my work towards a liberal arts degree will help. Though I could be wrong.
As for fun or profit. First would probably for fun. And if things are good enough then you can make the possible jump into publishing.
Therefore I am totally up for the idea of starting small and working my way up.
My other project is also trying to support up and coming writers, with our Casting Call program.
One of the primary focuses of TAO is to provide first time game developers a chance to “spread their wings”. We welcome good concept design wherever we may find it, not just from established designers, and our “Casting Call” program allows anyone interested in publishing new material to get feedback and support from previously published designers. While we maintain rigorous quality standards for all of our products, no good idea is ever turned away no matter how rough that particular diamond may be.
We're still working out the details, but hopefully it will be a good resource for new developers and writers, and a good way to build up your resumes.
I'd definitely be interested in supporting something like this. I even have a website I'd be willing to donate to the cause... http://www.4th-edition.com. I'm still waiting on WotC's fansite policy to actually launch it, but I'd really like to turn it into something nice.
My other project is also trying to support up and coming writers, with our Casting Call program. We're still working out the details, but hopefully it will be a good resource for new developers and writers, and a good way to build up your resumes.
If the site was working more of a "GSL-compliant products repository" than a fansite (as seems to be the general idea) I think there's no real need to wait for specific fansite policies. Of course, lawyers are lawyers, so you might just be wiser than me. ;)
Other than that, count me in for the "let's all design stuff together" initiative. :D
If the site was working more of a "GSL-compliant products repository" than a fansite (as seems to be the general idea) I think there's no real need to wait for specific fansite policies. Of course, lawyers are lawyers, so you might just be wiser than me. ;)
Other than that, count me in for the "let's all design stuff together" initiative. :D
Definitely... and you're probably correct that we don't need to wait for the fansite policy as long as everything is 100% GSL compliant. My worry is how we would police that, since we're likely to get a rush of submissions with no way to verify whether or not the statement of acceptances are in order, etc. Given my current employment, I need to make sure to cross my Ts and dot my lower-case Js, especially since it is my name registered to the domain. ;)
Definitely... and you're probably correct that we don't need to wait for the fansite policy as long as everything is 100% GSL compliant. My worry is how we would police that, since we're likely to get a rush of submissions with no way to verify whether or not the statement of acceptances are in order, etc. Given my current employment, I need to make sure to cross my Ts and dot my lower-case Js, especially since it is my name registered to the domain. ;)
Far be it for me to tell you how to run your site or anything, so don't take it that way, please. Just spit balling here.
1. The site can't be GSL compliant. Obviously, the GSL excludes websites. So, you'd be looking at fair use policies at such point without a fansite license. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression the Scott or someone had said the fansite license was still some ways away. Obviously, once the license comes out, it'd be awesome to be in compliance ASAP.
2. You need a really good CoC and other legal disclaimers(s). One suggestion would be to have an open site for people looking to join or looking for assistance. Have a closed section of the site for those who have (electronically) signed the proper NDA, understanding of copyright, etc. This would be where the 'meat' of the work gets done through the site, and the information would/should be stored somewhat locally, requiring a little bit more management than standard forums.
3. Until such time that the fansite license is out or you're comfortable don't allow the posting of anything that could possibly lay challenge to WotC content, IP, or even along the lines of GSL in an open area. People can show off their creative skills in the ways of writing, generic adventures with no stats, art, etc., but keep the stuff you want to hold off on in closed areas--which would mean, yes, someone (multiple people) would need to police the site.
These are just ideas, some of which I've seen work before in other creative fields, and they would take refinement before being initiated, but they're ideas.
My legal knowledge is slim-to-none, so I'd be relying on other folks to keep what we're doing in the "green-zone". However, I'd be very happy to help organize the group and help put up a private forum where select members can discuss ideas and create material.
As far as fun vs. profit, I think it would have to a purely for fun thing, with any money donated or made going to the people who have invested their own money into the project. Any extra resources should probably be pooled and used solely for funding the project itself.
My question is, what specific kinds of material would we publish?
This is just my imagination talking, but I'd like to see the group produce the following:
- Original Campaign Setting - Rather then just create a handful of miscellaneous supplemental material, I think it would be cool to release a fully realized campaign setting. Of course we would have to discuss the specifics of the campaign setting as a group, hopefully on our closed forums, but once we can all come to some sort of agreement, I think this would be one of the coolest (maybe not the most practical) type of material we could produce.
- All New Character Classes - Once we came to conclusion about the setting, and we have an idea of what types of characters will adventure in it, I'd like to see an entire new set of classes, complete with unique powers, abilities, and concepts. With the new classes would come new equipment, and possibly some new rules to help drive the new abilities that the classes have.
- Campaign Adventures - I think it would be cool to produce adventures that cater towards our community setting. They would have to be particular to the setting, since the campaign-classes would be non-standard ones.
Again, this is just my imagination taking an idea and running with it. Of course, the best course of action is to thoroughly discuss and come to some sort of agreement on what the group would do, but those are just some brainstorms.
Any thoughts? :D
Whenever you get things off the ground, let us know.
Honestly, though, it seems there is a lot of interest, which I somewhat expected there would be. We'll have to get something up and running soon.
In the meantime, to answer SentientGames, I think it's more likely you'll see several projects from a talent pool such as this. There's too many people to agree on everything. It could end up becoming a community project, like DigitalWebbing, where creators work together to put out a mixed product, or it can serve as a sort of talent search and match engine, where creators come together to share ideas and find assistance.
But i think the most valuable part would be where we would gather all
material and tryed to lisence them in regular intervals (if needed).
Looks like there's quite a few people interested. It's an alliance! Or maybe a horde?
more like a Consortium
more like a Consortium
Make it a swarm... Swarms get an aura attack! :D
Make it a swarm... Swarms get an aura attack! :D
I'd be happy to contribute to this as well. I'm with SentientGames in hoping for making a CS; I really like world-building, and I always have ideas that I don't get to try out in my own games.
Whenever you get things off the ground, let us know.
Hey EL, nice to see you here. It's been a while I don't go to the CharDev and similar forums, how are things over there?
Hey EL, nice to see you here. It's been a while I don't go to the CharDev and similar forums, how are things over there?
If you mean the Warlock Fluff thread...it's done, and I'm compiling the story right now. 94 pages in PDF format. :D
[/derail]
Question--would this be for an online resource, basically a homebrew repository online, or would we be collecting these into a PDF release? There've been other gleemax initiatives to make a big compilation of [whatever] and release it as a PDF--the CO COmpendium, the Races of the Horde, etc.--and a one-stop-shop for that kind of project in 4e would be a very popular resource, I'm sure.
This could turn into a sort of consulting service for homebrew, actually. "Hey guys, I'm writing up my CS and need help with the geography and history; who's interested in helping?" "X, Y, and Z want to help, but they need some help with their class design." "I'm really good at classes; let's trade!" That kind of thing. Those folks who are insanely knowledgeable on certain topics but not on others would be able to trade specialties for the benefit of both, and those that are doing a whole CS would have access to bunches of specialists.
There are a variety of ways it can be done. Teams can come together from the boards to do their own product, the community remaining for talent to show off and seek out. There *could* be community published things, but that'd take a bit of negotiating as well as a LOT more work, turning it almost into a company or studio rather than a free community. I have my own ideas, but am waiting for some things to be worked out right now, so we'll see.
I didn't necessarily mean publish like Dreamscarred Press or anything, just "Hey guys, we made a free PDF, download it here." Something to collect a lot of homebrew stuff and make it widely available beyond these boards.
There are a variety of ways it can be done. Teams can come together from the boards to do their own product, the community remaining for talent to show off and seek out. There *could* be community published things, but that'd take a bit of negotiating as well as a LOT more work, turning it almost into a company or studio rather than a free community. I have my own ideas, but am waiting for some things to be worked out right now, so we'll see.
12:49 and 2:15? Holy Double Post, Batman! ;)
12:49 and 2:15? Holy Double Post, Batman! ;)
site broke during original post...*shrug*....just had a chance to come back
as for the comment about a free PDF, there still an issue in there with getting the documentation to support using the individual contributors IP, or verifying the each have their on SOA on record (or just trusting that they do), and a few other tiny things that I had a moment ago, but suddenly escaped
1. The site can't be GSL compliant. Obviously, the GSL excludes websites. So, you'd be looking at fair use policies at such point without a fansite license. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression the Scott or someone had said the fansite license was still some ways away. Obviously, once the license comes out, it'd be awesome to be in compliance ASAP.
We actually can be GSL compliant... in that the site can't use the GSL. The site can advertise and help to distribute GSL compliant materials (.PDFs), but GSL material cannot be posted directly on the site.
Here is the way that I see things working, from a logistics standpoint. The site would consist of two parts: a forum and an archive.
The forum would be used by groups looking to put together a project and compile it into a .PDF. The forum would be used to coordinate their efforts and pass along ideas.
Once a project was completed, it could be submitted to the archives. It would be reviewed for GSL compliance, etc, and added to the main website. The archives would then be searchable by topic and contents, and we could even include a ratings system and/or a comment system. This archives would probably be done in a similar fashion to saga-edition.com, except that the material would have to be .PDFs to comply with the GSL (saga-edition.com is completely reliant on fair-use and is at the mercy of WotC and LFL).
This would be quite a bit of work for me to set up (specifically setting up the message boards and having a single sign on), and I am already EXTREMELY busy at the moment between WizOing, writing materials, and my day job as a web designer. However, I will see what I can do to get organized. Maybe I'll surprise everyone (myself included) and get to it sometime over the next week.
This would be quite a bit of work for me to set up (specifically setting up the message boards and having a single sign on), and I am already EXTREMELY busy at the moment between WizOing, writing materials, and my day job (web design). However, I will see what I can do to get organized. Maybe I'll surprise everyone (myself included) and get to it sometime over the next week.
Don't go too far out of your way on our account; I perfectly understand not being able to get to D&D projects because those darn RL things get in the way. If there's anything we can do to help on that front, let us know.
This would be quite a bit of work for me to set up (specifically setting up the message boards and having a single sign on), and I am already EXTREMELY busy at the moment between WizOing, writing materials, and my day job as a web designer. However, I will see what I can do to get organized. Maybe I'll surprise everyone (myself included) and get to it sometime over the next week.
If you're hard-pressed for time, I'll gladly set up the forums and everything. I've got a lot of experience with both phpbb3 and joomla/fireboard, so it shouldn't take me very long. However, if you intend to donate 4th-edition.com, then it would probably be easier for you to handle it. Otherwise, if we set up a new site, I could take care of it.
Just let me know and I'll do my best to get this engine running.
I like your concept there. I've just been waiting to finish this last gig before I started forth on anything, which is *finally* done. So, I'm sitting back, playing with some forum concepts and design ideas. I'll have to take a look at the saga site and see how you've got archiving set up. There are a few other particulars I'm looking at, but also don't propose to anywhere near ready for launch until sometime next week.
I still see some optional ideas based on what's been said here and elsewhere, but don't want to be splitting talent--the completely defeats the purpose. Based on what you said here, this is what I'm getting from your idea, let me know if I'm wrong.
1. Forums - discuss concepts, find talent, put up for review, etc.
2. Archive - those who wish to publish their projects to a PDF and save them in an onsite archive will be welcome to do so, so long as they comply with GSL. These archives would be accessible to members and free (membership would also be free). The only issue I see here is verifying that products are GSL compliant--wouldn't want everyone to be punished for someone else's mistake or maliciousness.
One addition I can see community projects coming together, being perhaps voted on(?), and supported by the community, rather than just a group from within the community.
Tao,
I like your concept there. I've just been waiting to finish this last gig before I started forth on anything, which is *finally* done. So, I'm sitting back, playing with some forum concepts and design ideas. I'll have to take a look at the saga site and see how you've got archiving set up. There are a few other particulars I'm looking at, but also don't propose to anywhere near ready for launch until sometime next week.
I still see some optional ideas based on what's been said here and elsewhere, but don't want to be splitting talent--the completely defeats the purpose. Based on what you said here, this is what I'm getting from your idea, let me know if I'm wrong.
1. Forums - discuss concepts, find talent, put up for review, etc.
2. Archive - those who wish to publish their projects to a PDF and save them in an onsite archive will be welcome to do so, so long as they comply with GSL. These archives would be accessible to members and free (membership would also be free). The only issue I see here is verifying that products are GSL compliant--wouldn't want everyone to be punished for someone else's mistake or maliciousness.
One addition I can see community projects coming together, being perhaps voted on(?), and supported by the community, rather than just a group from within the community.
I think that the groupings will happen naturally, for a number of reasons, like:
- People will tend to form partnerships/teams that they like working with, and will favor taking on projects that their "buddies" bring forth or join.
- Too many is just too many. There is a point where more people coming in will not be helping anymore.
Not that I think the community can't be useful as a resource. Playtesting is the first and foremost help that I can think of, but surely not the only. Collecting opinions, voting on undecided bits (should we do "Expanded Arcanist" or "Expanded Nature" next?) etc.
I would totally be into creating material and banding together.
Ever since I started 3.0 back in 2000 this had become one of my huge dreams. I mean you sit there and look at it and think "THIS IS WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING? SWEET!"
Same here. Sign me up.
Well, I can tell you right now, if anyone reading this considers themselves web designer/programmer, and is bored, I could use a bit of help getting my project off the ground. I'm just spread to thin between project management and writing amongst other things.
My DM's Toolkit project is taking most of my time, but if it's something that would only require a small amount of programming, drop me a PM. Java, C, Python, Lisp...pick a language and I'll see what I can do.
Well, perhaps a bit premature, but the forums for my project are finally online. I have to get a few i's dotted and t's crossed with the lawyers on the Terms of Use, as right now it's just got the generic phpBB stuff up there, but the major difference is, you maintain your copyright to anything posted there unlike here. Also, it's still quite small, and we're more than willing to hear ways to improve the community interaction aspect. Feel free to stop on by and take a look at it at www.ebonblade.com but realize the only 'functional' part of the site at this point is the forums.
[in for the ride]
Should I keep my hands inside the car at all times? :D
It's a slow start, the fw people I am working with directly don't have much time to post, so they don't. I know BTD has been down and out for a few days, as have I. But, only one person from the boards has mad eit over. Taking another swipe at the board policies and such, there really is no need to change them, as the standard copyright laws would take precedence, which is how we wnat it anyway--your material is your material.
So, for those who said they wanted to join in go ahead.