GSL Though Question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

GSL Though Question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tanin_wulf
May 17, 2009 22:18:41 Good evening,

I gave a cursory look over this board and couldn't find an answer here. I also read over the GSL, GSL FAQ, and the SRD and couldn't find my answer (or perhaps not the answer I liked).

Let's say I wanted to create a campaign world where, for whatever McGuffin reason, Player Characters gain +1 to attack rolls at level 5, +2 at level 15, and +3 at level 25. How would I go about doing this without redifining a term?

That is, how do I turn that into an expansion of terms rather than a redifinition? After having read the FAQ, I see what Wizards is saying with do not give all Dragonborn +1 to intimidate, because that redefines Dragonborn, but you could create Greatmountain Dragonborn that have that.

Ok, so how do I do this on a more universal level? How do I create the cosmological constant described above. Couch everything as World X Race Name Here? Seems rather clumsy.

Anyway, just a thought experiment.
#2
fissionessence
May 17, 2009 23:14:05 Honestly, I don't know whether or not you can do this . . . why do you want to? Knowing your ultimate goal may reveal a workaround where you're essentially doing this, but without risking redefining anything. Just like the difference between altering a dragonborn and creating a greatmountain dragonborn.

It looks like you're wanting to create a campaign where your house rule in enforced on everyone playing in that world . . . why would you do that?

If you're changing something about the expectations of 4E (without redefining anything, of course), like taking away the majority of magic items, then you could include in the GM section some tips on how to handle this. One of those tips could be, "You should probably give everybody attack bonuses at these levels . . . "

~ fissionessence
#3
tanin_wulf
May 17, 2009 23:28:09 Mostly as a thought experiment.

Part of it is trying to figure out exactly how far I can tinker with the system before I break the GSL - not the system itself, I can balance a proposed rule like the one above in a myriad of ways. And it isn't just to be annoying, it's to push the system in new, fun ways within the confines of what I could do as a freelancer if I later wanted to.
#4
ascottbay
May 18, 2009 2:58:48 How does the item you describe redefine any terms? It looks like it just ends up with a very long description. You're not changing what "attack roll" or "item" means.

Edit: Oh, you mean "for whatever reason"... MacGuffins tend to be items (or sometimes, characters) that are used for plot purposes, so I found that confusing.

You could create a background for your setting that says player characters from the setting (that also have the setting's background) gain bonuses to attack rolls.

If the characters are outlanders, you could say that exposure to the setting (magic, culture, whatever) grants the setting's background after X amount of time.
#5
ieattrollsforbreakfast
May 18, 2009 6:21:13 You can do it like this:

Hero of (insert campaign world name here)
Prerequisite: 5th level, native of (insert campaign world name here)
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 15th level, and +3 at 25th level.
Special: All characters from (insert campaign world name here) gain this feat as a bonus feat at 5th level.

That doesn't break any GSL rules as far as I know, though the approach won't necessarily work for any other rules variants you have.
#6
celloshane
May 18, 2009 10:34:06
You can do it like this:

Hero of (insert campaign world name here)
Prerequisite: 5th level, native of (insert campaign world name here)
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 15th level, and +3 at 25th level.
Special: All characters from (insert campaign world name here) gain this feat as a bonus feat at 5th level.

That doesn't break any GSL rules as far as I know, though the approach won't necessarily work for any other rules variants you have.

Could he then state that all characters in (campaign world) receive that feat for free though? Or would that be redefining Wotc's material?

I would guess that this is based around the Weapon Expertise arguments, because that's exactly what that feat does. Some people believe that Weapon Expertise was essentially a patch and should have been released as erratta. Some people prefer it as an optional feat.
#7
ieattrollsforbreakfast
May 19, 2009 5:48:25
Could he then state that all characters in (campaign world) receive that feat for free though? Or would that be redefining Wotc's material?

I would guess that this is based around the Weapon Expertise arguments, because that's exactly what that feat does. Some people believe that Weapon Expertise was essentially a patch and should have been released as erratta. Some people prefer it as an optional feat.

Bonus feats already exist in the rules, so I don't think it would be a problem. It's completely supplementary, and doesn't change anything within the existing ruleset.
#8
jedrious
May 21, 2009 0:14:05 Make it a background benefit

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tanin_wulf May 17, 2009 22:18:41	Good evening, I gave a cursory look over this board and couldn't find an answer here. I also read over the GSL, GSL FAQ, and the SRD and couldn't find my answer (or perhaps not the answer I liked). Let's say I wanted to create a campaign world where, for whatever McGuffin reason, Player Characters gain +1 to attack rolls at level 5, +2 at level 15, and +3 at level 25. How would I go about doing this without redifining a term? That is, how do I turn that into an expansion of terms rather than a redifinition? After having read the FAQ, I see what Wizards is saying with do not give all Dragonborn +1 to intimidate, because that redefines Dragonborn, but you could create Greatmountain Dragonborn that have that. Ok, so how do I do this on a more universal level? How do I create the cosmological constant described above. Couch everything as World X Race Name Here? Seems rather clumsy. Anyway, just a thought experiment.
#2 fissionessence May 17, 2009 23:14:05	Honestly, I don't know whether or not you can do this . . . why do you want to? Knowing your ultimate goal may reveal a workaround where you're essentially doing this, but without risking redefining anything. Just like the difference between altering a dragonborn and creating a greatmountain dragonborn. It looks like you're wanting to create a campaign where your house rule in enforced on everyone playing in that world . . . why would you do that? If you're changing something about the expectations of 4E (without redefining anything, of course), like taking away the majority of magic items, then you could include in the GM section some tips on how to handle this. One of those tips could be, "You should probably give everybody attack bonuses at these levels . . . " ~ fissionessence
#3 tanin_wulf May 17, 2009 23:28:09	Mostly as a thought experiment. Part of it is trying to figure out exactly how far I can tinker with the system before I break the GSL - not the system itself, I can balance a proposed rule like the one above in a myriad of ways. And it isn't just to be annoying, it's to push the system in new, fun ways within the confines of what I could do as a freelancer if I later wanted to.
#4 ascottbay May 18, 2009 2:58:48	How does the item you describe redefine any terms? It looks like it just ends up with a very long description. You're not changing what "attack roll" or "item" means. Edit: Oh, you mean "for whatever reason"... MacGuffins tend to be items (or sometimes, characters) that are used for plot purposes, so I found that confusing. You could create a background for your setting that says player characters from the setting (that also have the setting's background) gain bonuses to attack rolls. If the characters are outlanders, you could say that exposure to the setting (magic, culture, whatever) grants the setting's background after X amount of time.
#5 ieattrollsforbreakfast May 18, 2009 6:21:13	You can do it like this: Hero of (insert campaign world name here) Prerequisite: 5th level, native of (insert campaign world name here) Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 15th level, and +3 at 25th level. Special: All characters from (insert campaign world name here) gain this feat as a bonus feat at 5th level. That doesn't break any GSL rules as far as I know, though the approach won't necessarily work for any other rules variants you have.
#6 celloshane May 18, 2009 10:34:06	You can do it like this: Hero of (insert campaign world name here) Prerequisite: 5th level, native of (insert campaign world name here) Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 15th level, and +3 at 25th level. Special: All characters from (insert campaign world name here) gain this feat as a bonus feat at 5th level. That doesn't break any GSL rules as far as I know, though the approach won't necessarily work for any other rules variants you have. Could he then state that all characters in (campaign world) receive that feat for free though? Or would that be redefining Wotc's material? I would guess that this is based around the Weapon Expertise arguments, because that's exactly what that feat does. Some people believe that Weapon Expertise was essentially a patch and should have been released as erratta. Some people prefer it as an optional feat.
#7 ieattrollsforbreakfast May 19, 2009 5:48:25	Could he then state that all characters in (campaign world) receive that feat for free though? Or would that be redefining Wotc's material? I would guess that this is based around the Weapon Expertise arguments, because that's exactly what that feat does. Some people believe that Weapon Expertise was essentially a patch and should have been released as erratta. Some people prefer it as an optional feat. Bonus feats already exist in the rules, so I don't think it would be a problem. It's completely supplementary, and doesn't change anything within the existing ruleset.
#8 jedrious May 21, 2009 0:14:05	Make it a background benefit