Mongoose is in. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mongoose is in.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
redcard
Jul 16, 2008 9:37:34 Wraith Recon, a 4e product, due out in October.
#2
malkav666
Jul 16, 2008 9:43:16 That product actully looks pretty cool. I cannot tell if it is a source book or an adventure from tis write up, but it I will definately give it a look.

Wraith Retcon product page on mongooses website

love,

malkav
#3
bobthedog
Jul 16, 2008 20:09:12 Yea, I had put this in the "GSL Products you should check out" some time ago, it's not really breaking news. ;)

And by the looks of it, I believe it is a Campaign Setting.
#4
redcard
Jul 17, 2008 10:16:25
Yea, I had put this in the "GSL Products you should check out" some time ago, it's not really breaking news. ;)

And by the looks of it, I believe it is a Campaign Setting.

They only announced it a few days ago.

Before then, they had announced it, but then pulled it because they were reconsidering the GSL.
#5
aramis_the_red
Jul 17, 2008 11:26:49 Wratih Recon looks pretty slick. It's lookin tobe a nice mix of dnd, steampunky magetech, and special forces. I'm gonna love it. I can picture character introductions around the game table in my group:

"I'm a level 4 human ranger multiclasssed into rogue. I was a part of a naval recon unit, which is where I picked up this awesome skin tight +2 waterbreathing cloth armour. I wield a crossbow and dual wield harpoons. Call me.... Steve.... Scuba Steve."

But in all seroiusness, this looks slick but I wanna see mongoose pull out the big guns....

Conan 4th Edition

Just my
#6
steerpike7
Jul 17, 2008 14:44:40
Conan 4th Edition

I don't think Conan would work well with 4th edition. That kind of swords and sorcery, if done right, presumes that magic is deadly, usually evil, and it isn't ubiquitous. Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it.
#7
aramis_the_red
Jul 17, 2008 16:07:40
Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it.

Flavor is decided by the setting, not the mechanics.

The game (like past editions of mongoose's conan) would take the basic mechanics of the game and change the flavor to match the setting.

Where as some of the classes would fit perfectly into the setting (Ranger/ Rogue/ Fighter/ Warlord/ Hellock/ Cleric), others(mainly magical) would not without major changes (Wizard/ Paladin/ Feylock/ Starlock*). I also think the concept of ritual magic fits perfectly into the world of Conan. Besides, Mongoose rewrote most classes and produced new ones for past editions anyway. I don't see why they wouldn't for this edtion.

All they need is the mechanics of 4th to make it. Flavor will be added by the developers to match the gritty dark fantasy of Conan.
#8
steerpike7
Jul 17, 2008 17:38:12
Flavor is decided by the setting, not the mechanics.

I think the mechanics can and do have an influence on the flavor. The whole idea of a martial power source and the powers that come along with it would be enough for me not to play a 4E version of Conan. I like it in 4E as written, but in my opinion it doesn't go well with the Conan setting, so I probably wouldn't play a 4E Conan game. The mechanics wouldn't work for me.
#9
cnath
Jul 19, 2008 19:22:38
Where as some of the classes would fit perfectly into the setting (Ranger/ Rogue/ Fighter/ Warlord/ Hellock/ Cleric), others(mainly magical) would not without major changes (Wizard/ Paladin/ Feylock/ Starlock*). I also think the concept of ritual magic fits perfectly into the world of Conan. Besides, Mongoose rewrote most classes and produced new ones for past editions anyway. I don't see why they wouldn't for this edtion.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that rewriting the classes (like you would need to do) is specifically forbidden under the GSL. (and some people flip out whenever the idea of working outside the GSL is mentioned) The last that I heard they were still keeping Conan to their own house system. IMAGE(http://www.thehealthymom.com/wp-content/plugins/more-smilies/maidacollection/dunno.gif)
#10
arderkrag
Jul 19, 2008 20:16:56
I don't think Conan would work well with 4th edition. That kind of swords and sorcery, if done right, presumes that magic is deadly, usually evil, and it isn't ubiquitous. Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it.

Plus, Conan is supposed to be a brutal, one shot can easily kill you setting.
#11
arderkrag
Jul 19, 2008 20:21:32
The last that I heard they were still keeping Conan to their own house system. IMAGE(http://www.thehealthymom.com/wp-content/plugins/more-smilies/maidacollection/dunno.gif)

This is correct, AFAIK. I GM Conan regularly, and I simply think the two systems are incompatible mechanically.
#12
crashbeedo
Jul 21, 2008 14:14:12 Wait a second... we finally have a D&D edition where fighters rock, a fighter can take on hordes of minions and chop through them, fighters have cool (and flavorful powers) that provide intricate combat options as opposed to charge, full attack, full attack, full attack ad nauseum; we have an edition where clerics and clerical magic is no longer necessary and cleric-less parties of fighters can survive with just fighters, more fighters, a rogue, maybe another fighter, and a warlord... but now this edition wouldn't work for a low-magic world like Hyboria?

Midnight d20 and Conan were two of the best 3rd party d20 designs, and both tried to simulate low-magic worlds where fighting took center stage to the default high-magic approach of 3.5 - they seem tailor made for 4th edition.
#13
tfvanguard
Jul 21, 2008 18:05:46
Wait a second... we finally have a D&D edition where fighters rock...

It's the theme, guy.

Conan has a theme of blood, guts, and glory. Sinewy mean beating the snot out of one another with swords. No special moves, nothing fancy, just raw, bloody, death.

4E's fighting theme basically would have your warriors more in the spirit if they were spandex tights, brightly-colored capes, and their own trademarked logo on their chest. Each round, they could say 'POW!' and 'BIFF!', preferably in Adam West's voice.
#14
arderkrag
Jul 21, 2008 18:26:52
It's the theme, guy.

Conan has a theme of blood, guts, and glory. Sinewy mean beating the snot out of one another with swords. No special moves, nothing fancy, just raw, bloody, death.

4E's fighting theme basically would have your warriors more in the spirit if they were spandex tights, brightly-colored capes, and their own trademarked logo on their chest. Each round, they could say 'POW!' and 'BIFF!', preferably in Adam West's voice.

And, as I've previously pointed out: mechanically, a Conan world should tend towards the players being near death in just about every fight. Combat should be fast, brutal, and frequently fatal, with little to no bias towards player victory. That's the major difference.
#15
Sailing_Pirate_Ryan
Jul 21, 2008 19:32:21
And, as I've previously pointed out: mechanically, a Conan world should tend towards the players being near death in just about every fight. Combat should be fast, brutal, and frequently fatal, with little to no bias towards player victory. That's the major difference.

As someone who is preparing to run a Conan-inspired homebrew setting, I think it is certainly possible for the 4e mechanics to do Hyboria justice... with appropriate adjustments on the DM's part, of course.

For my part, the PCs are limited to human martial characters only and magic items are virtually non-existent -- spend the loot on cold beer and warm women like you're supposed to. ;) Rituals are out. Healing with an extended rest is limited, though not eliminated. Death is permanent. Mages are a great deal more powerful than wizards and warlocks, and a lot less... flashy; illusions, enchantments, necromancy, demon-summoning... not fireballs or magic missiles.

I won't do the Heroes many favors, but I won't tilt the odds against them more that the setting demands, either (i.e., lack of magic). In the few weeks that I've been playing 4e, the battles have not been easily won by any means. Without the divine power source, battles will get even bloodier.

In short, there are elements of 4e that make Conan harder to implement, but there are just as many elements that make Conan easier to implement, too. With some clever designers/developers at the helm, I'm certain that 4e Conan could be impressive.

Regardless, the lack of backwards-compatibility in the GSL pretty much means no 4e Conan, IMO, making this a moot point.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 redcard Jul 16, 2008 9:37:34	Wraith Recon, a 4e product, due out in October.
#2 malkav666 Jul 16, 2008 9:43:16	That product actully looks pretty cool. I cannot tell if it is a source book or an adventure from tis write up, but it I will definately give it a look. Wraith Retcon product page on mongooses website love, malkav
#3 bobthedog Jul 16, 2008 20:09:12	Yea, I had put this in the "GSL Products you should check out" some time ago, it's not really breaking news. ;) And by the looks of it, I believe it is a Campaign Setting.
#4 redcard Jul 17, 2008 10:16:25	Yea, I had put this in the "GSL Products you should check out" some time ago, it's not really breaking news. ;) And by the looks of it, I believe it is a Campaign Setting. They only announced it a few days ago. Before then, they had announced it, but then pulled it because they were reconsidering the GSL.
#5 aramis_the_red Jul 17, 2008 11:26:49	Wratih Recon looks pretty slick. It's lookin tobe a nice mix of dnd, steampunky magetech, and special forces. I'm gonna love it. I can picture character introductions around the game table in my group: "I'm a level 4 human ranger multiclasssed into rogue. I was a part of a naval recon unit, which is where I picked up this awesome skin tight +2 waterbreathing cloth armour. I wield a crossbow and dual wield harpoons. Call me.... Steve.... Scuba Steve." But in all seroiusness, this looks slick but I wanna see mongoose pull out the big guns.... Conan 4th Edition Just my
#6 steerpike7 Jul 17, 2008 14:44:40	Conan 4th Edition I don't think Conan would work well with 4th edition. That kind of swords and sorcery, if done right, presumes that magic is deadly, usually evil, and it isn't ubiquitous. Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it.
#7 aramis_the_red Jul 17, 2008 16:07:40	Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it. Flavor is decided by the setting, not the mechanics. The game (like past editions of mongoose's conan) would take the basic mechanics of the game and change the flavor to match the setting. Where as some of the classes would fit perfectly into the setting (Ranger/ Rogue/ Fighter/ Warlord/ Hellock/ Cleric), others(mainly magical) would not without major changes (Wizard/ Paladin/ Feylock/ Starlock*). I also think the concept of ritual magic fits perfectly into the world of Conan. Besides, Mongoose rewrote most classes and produced new ones for past editions anyway. I don't see why they wouldn't for this edtion. All they need is the mechanics of 4th to make it. Flavor will be added by the developers to match the gritty dark fantasy of Conan.
#8 steerpike7 Jul 17, 2008 17:38:12	Flavor is decided by the setting, not the mechanics. I think the mechanics can and do have an influence on the flavor. The whole idea of a martial power source and the powers that come along with it would be enough for me not to play a 4E version of Conan. I like it in 4E as written, but in my opinion it doesn't go well with the Conan setting, so I probably wouldn't play a 4E Conan game. The mechanics wouldn't work for me.
#9 cnath Jul 19, 2008 19:22:38	Where as some of the classes would fit perfectly into the setting (Ranger/ Rogue/ Fighter/ Warlord/ Hellock/ Cleric), others(mainly magical) would not without major changes (Wizard/ Paladin/ Feylock/ Starlock*). I also think the concept of ritual magic fits perfectly into the world of Conan. Besides, Mongoose rewrote most classes and produced new ones for past editions anyway. I don't see why they wouldn't for this edtion. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that rewriting the classes (like you would need to do) is specifically forbidden under the GSL. (and some people flip out whenever the idea of working outside the GSL is mentioned) The last that I heard they were still keeping Conan to their own house system.
#10 arderkrag Jul 19, 2008 20:16:56	I don't think Conan would work well with 4th edition. That kind of swords and sorcery, if done right, presumes that magic is deadly, usually evil, and it isn't ubiquitous. Seems to me the flavor of 4E would be a poor fit for it. Plus, Conan is supposed to be a brutal, one shot can easily kill you setting.
#11 arderkrag Jul 19, 2008 20:21:32	The last that I heard they were still keeping Conan to their own house system. This is correct, AFAIK. I GM Conan regularly, and I simply think the two systems are incompatible mechanically.
#12 crashbeedo Jul 21, 2008 14:14:12	Wait a second... we finally have a D&D edition where fighters rock, a fighter can take on hordes of minions and chop through them, fighters have cool (and flavorful powers) that provide intricate combat options as opposed to charge, full attack, full attack, full attack ad nauseum; we have an edition where clerics and clerical magic is no longer necessary and cleric-less parties of fighters can survive with just fighters, more fighters, a rogue, maybe another fighter, and a warlord... but now this edition wouldn't work for a low-magic world like Hyboria? Midnight d20 and Conan were two of the best 3rd party d20 designs, and both tried to simulate low-magic worlds where fighting took center stage to the default high-magic approach of 3.5 - they seem tailor made for 4th edition.
#13 tfvanguard Jul 21, 2008 18:05:46	Wait a second... we finally have a D&D edition where fighters rock... It's the theme, guy. Conan has a theme of blood, guts, and glory. Sinewy mean beating the snot out of one another with swords. No special moves, nothing fancy, just raw, bloody, death. 4E's fighting theme basically would have your warriors more in the spirit if they were spandex tights, brightly-colored capes, and their own trademarked logo on their chest. Each round, they could say 'POW!' and 'BIFF!', preferably in Adam West's voice.
#14 arderkrag Jul 21, 2008 18:26:52	It's the theme, guy. Conan has a theme of blood, guts, and glory. Sinewy mean beating the snot out of one another with swords. No special moves, nothing fancy, just raw, bloody, death. 4E's fighting theme basically would have your warriors more in the spirit if they were spandex tights, brightly-colored capes, and their own trademarked logo on their chest. Each round, they could say 'POW!' and 'BIFF!', preferably in Adam West's voice. And, as I've previously pointed out: mechanically, a Conan world should tend towards the players being near death in just about every fight. Combat should be fast, brutal, and frequently fatal, with little to no bias towards player victory. That's the major difference.
#15 Sailing_Pirate_Ryan Jul 21, 2008 19:32:21	And, as I've previously pointed out: mechanically, a Conan world should tend towards the players being near death in just about every fight. Combat should be fast, brutal, and frequently fatal, with little to no bias towards player victory. That's the major difference. As someone who is preparing to run a Conan-inspired homebrew setting, I think it is certainly possible for the 4e mechanics to do Hyboria justice... with appropriate adjustments on the DM's part, of course. For my part, the PCs are limited to human martial characters only and magic items are virtually non-existent -- spend the loot on cold beer and warm women like you're supposed to. ;) Rituals are out. Healing with an extended rest is limited, though not eliminated. Death is permanent. Mages are a great deal more powerful than wizards and warlocks, and a lot less... flashy; illusions, enchantments, necromancy, demon-summoning... not fireballs or magic missiles. I won't do the Heroes many favors, but I won't tilt the odds against them more that the setting demands, either (i.e., lack of magic). In the few weeks that I've been playing 4e, the battles have not been easily won by any means. Without the divine power source, battles will get even bloodier. In short, there are elements of 4e that make Conan harder to implement, but there are just as many elements that make Conan easier to implement, too. With some clever designers/developers at the helm, I'm certain that 4e Conan could be impressive. Regardless, the lack of backwards-compatibility in the GSL pretty much means no 4e Conan, IMO, making this a moot point.