Setting up a local gaming group.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ngamble

Dec 14, 2008 14:11:36
I've been in the process of setting up a D&D group at a local hobby store. The store is still really new--maybe 1 year old now--and I'm trying to bring in some D&D gaming. I don't work for the store, I just really enjoy D&D, and (being a college student) I've been able to direct a few school assignments to focus on setting up groups at the store.

So I've created a website: www.ngamble.com/dnd.htm

The website has:
1). Announcements on the front page.
2). Game information (as related to the events I run, what we play, why, and how to sign up.)
3). How to Play (section explaining the concepts of D&D, how it relates to other types of games, section on how to read through a character sheet and what the sections of it are, what the numbers mean, and a little bit on how they get used.)
4). Event Calendar (listing the sessions we've played and the ones we have planned)
5). Downloads page (hosting some files for a blank character sheet, some "Pre-Gens"--filled out character sheets--and some blank character cards.)
6). Roster (introducing who the Players, DM's, and other people involved with the game sessions run at the store. So far only two people involved have profiles up, but we're still pretty new.)
7). Our very own forums.

Then a link to the store we play at and a link to the WotC D&D Home Page.

What I would like to know is, "Am I breaking any copyrights for using the D&D logo, the D&D name throughout the site, and by explaining how to play the game in the 'How to Play' section?"

I've been looking for some kind of quick-start or free rules that explain just the basics of how to play on the forums here which I could use by printing out and leaving at the store for anyone to browse through. I haven't been able to find anything though, and I think a lot of people who hangout at the store aren't going to give D&D--let alone the new edition of D&D--much thought unless they are able to try it out first. The big thing at the store is "Warhammer 40k" not "D&D" and I'm hoping to 'convert' some heretics.

Also, people who are already pretty proficient at one hobby, tend to stick to the hobby they are proficient in, especially if they are pretty good at the game they do play. People like that aren't going to try a new system unless they can at least feel like they have an idea about what is going on, and they aren't going to drop $20 let alone $35 on a manual, just for the chance to see if it sucks or not. This is why I think having some kind of explanation of how to play--easily and readily available--is very important.

So I would like to make 2 requests here:
1). Can somebody forward this on to a WotC rep and have them let me know if the content on the sight is okay? (sending me an email--link located on my website if it is)
2). Suggest ideas on how I can make that sight better. (using our forums, I'll go start a thread there just for that, sticky it up top in the open->discussions section).
#2

Hocus-Smokus

Dec 14, 2008 14:24:59
A few things.

1st: I like your site. The layout is great. It's easy to navigate. It contains lots of great information.

2nd: Copyrights. Are you signed on witht the D&D 4E GSL? If so, then it's perfectly fine to use the logo they supply with the GSL info for your websites. Also, there are some pics and other things that are copyright protected. Did you get permission to use them? You can copy rules without breaking any laws, but concepts are another thing. You might want to check out the GSL and see what it can do for you.

3rd: Are you a member of the RPGA? If so, and you have reahced at least Herald level, you can sanction Living Forgotten Realms games. If not, there might be issues with how you obtained the adventures, rules, etc.

Here are a few links to help you out:

RPGA: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga

GSL: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome

I do wish you the best, and I hope you can sanction and run D&D games at the store. Of course, you don't have to be affiliated with anyone to DM games at a store, but the use of the D&D logos, Living Forgotten Realms info, and such require memberships into their respective associations.
#3

ngamble

Dec 14, 2008 14:32:14
I am a RPGA member - Master Level D&D Dungeon Master (the master level test was on the 3.5 rules, 4ED only went up to herald; so am I 3.5 master, 4ed herald?)

I do sanction the events through RPGA and update the website--and forums--with a "Submitted" tag once I've uploaded the event information.

I'll go read through the link on the GSL now, thank you.
#4

Hocus-Smokus

Dec 14, 2008 14:39:05
I am a RPGA member - Master Level D&D Dungeon Master (the master level test was on the 3.5 rules, 4ED only went up to herald; so am I 3.5 master, 4ed herald?)

If you took the Herald test, you're a Herald. If you didn't, you're not. If you do need to take the Herald test, don't sweat it...it's easy.
#5

guivre

Dec 14, 2008 22:34:49
2nd: Copyrights. Are you signed on witht the D&D 4E GSL? If so, then it's perfectly fine to use the logo they supply with the GSL info for your websites. Also, there are some pics and other things that are copyright protected. Did you get permission to use them? You can copy rules without breaking any laws, but concepts are another thing. You might want to check out the GSL and see what it can do for you.

Wow.. bad, inaccurate advice all around. Seek an official answer to your questions before proceeding.
#6

Hocus-Smokus

Dec 15, 2008 7:15:00
Wow.. bad, inaccurate advice all around. Seek an official answer to your questions before proceeding.

The first advice anyone should give (and I realize I failed to do this initially) is: get a lawyer. That being said:

I realize there are many forum-lawyers around here, but I assure you what I say is accurate. Before signing onto the GSL, I acquired a lawyer who has advised me since June. Some of the questions the OP have are, naturally, some of the same questions I had.

His first question: "Am I breaking any copyrights for using the D&D logo, the D&D name throughout the site, and by explaining how to play the game in the 'How to Play' section?"

The answer, according to the terms of the license (if he has signed the license, if he hasn't, see part B): As per section 4.2 - Licensee may additionally utilize the Compatibility Logo in advertisements and marketing materials (including without limitation, website listings and catalogs) for Licensed Products, provided, that such Compatibility Logo solely appears in the lower left quadrant of any such advertisement or marketing material; and is sized identically to the Compatibility Logo as shown in the files listed above.

B: If he hasn't signed the license: If he hasn't signed the license, he is not in violation of the licence...he's simply in violation of copyright laws. By signing the GSL, you are given permission to use their logo (Specific logos, not just the whichever ones you feel like) on websites, as advertising, and on any published product made by you.

Also, any use of images owned by WotC is forbidden without permission, per the GSL, section 5.7: For the avoidance of doubt and in addition to the provisions of Section 10 related to ownership and use of Wizards Intellectual Property (as defined therein), Licensee expressly acknowledges Wizards’ ownership of all imagery and artwork contained in 4E, and Licensee expressly agrees it will not use, publish or reprint any such imagery or artwork, including without limitation any derivatives thereof, without Wizards’ written permission.

This is not simply advise from one forum member to another. This is advice from a licensed GSL publisher to one that might get in serious trouble. Will he? I doubt it. It's good adverts for WotC...but he could if they decided to follow up on it. Right now, with America in its current financial landfill, I would like to think that, as long as our friend is not claiming that HE created D&D, or owns the rights to D&D, that he could spread the word about the game as much as he wished...he has the potential to bring in many new customers. WotC could put the skids to it if they want, but why in the world would they?
#7

guivre

Dec 15, 2008 8:20:38
The first advice anyone should give (and I realize I failed to do this initially) is: get a lawyer. That being said:

I realize there are many forum-lawyers around here, but I assure you what I say is accurate. Before signing onto the GSL, I acquired a lawyer who has advised me since June. Some of the questions the OP have are, naturally, some of the same questions I had.

His first question: "Am I breaking any copyrights for using the D&D logo, the D&D name throughout the site, and by explaining how to play the game in the 'How to Play' section?"

The answer, according to the terms of the license (if he has signed the license, if he hasn't, see part B): As per section 4.2 - Licensee may additionally utilize the Compatibility Logo in advertisements and marketing materials (including without limitation, website listings and catalogs) for Licensed Products, provided, that such Compatibility Logo solely appears in the lower left quadrant of any such advertisement or marketing material; and is sized identically to the Compatibility Logo as shown in the files listed above.

B: If he hasn't signed the license: If he hasn't signed the license, he is not in violation of the licence...he's simply in violation of copyright laws. By signing the GSL, you are given permission to use their logo (Specific logos, not just the whichever ones you feel like) on websites, as advertising, and on any published product made by you.

Also, any use of images owned by WotC is forbidden without permission, per the GSL, section 5.7: For the avoidance of doubt and in addition to the provisions of Section 10 related to ownership and use of Wizards Intellectual Property (as defined therein), Licensee expressly acknowledges Wizards’ ownership of all imagery and artwork contained in 4E, and Licensee expressly agrees it will not use, publish or reprint any such imagery or artwork, including without limitation any derivatives thereof, without Wizards’ written permission.

This is not simply advise from one forum member to another. This is advice from a licensed GSL publisher to one that might get in serious trouble. Will he? I doubt it. It's good adverts for WotC...but he could if they decided to follow up on it. Right now, with America in its current financial landfill, I would like to think that, as long as our friend is not claiming that HE created D&D, or owns the rights to D&D, that he could spread the word about the game as much as he wished...he has the potential to bring in many new customers. WotC could put the skids to it if they want, but why in the world would they?

WotC may or may or not go after him. On regards to copyright violation, the GSL and logos used on that website you are factually incorrect and are dispensing inaccurate, dangerous advice.


OP, please disregard the advice in question and get an official answer from WotC or wait for the fansite policy.

At a quick glance I see several pieces that violate copyright and would still violate copyright even if you sign the GSL, it's a simple matter to send an email to WotC to establish that you are in the clear.
#8

Hocus-Smokus

Dec 15, 2008 8:58:56
WotC may or may or not go after him. On regards to copyright violation, the GSL and logos used on that website you are factually incorrect and are dispensing inaccurate, dangerous advice.

Did you not read what I wrote? The part about using THEIR supplied GSL logo? The part about images used without permission? The part about "get a lawyer"? Reading...it's a fundamental part of online forum participation. Give it a try sometime.

OP, please disregard the advice in question and get an official answer from WotC or wait for the fansite policy.

Agreed. If you feel I have steered you wrong (or even if you haven't), consult with WotC. However...and this is a big however...my lawyer (and several others that he consulted with) have pointed out several flaws in the GSL that render parts of it moot. I hope that when WotC has finished reformatting the GSL, they make the appropriate changes that would at least make it a lawful document that could hold up in court. Using my lawyer's advice, I cannot point out the exact portions of the GSL that are not legitimate (mostly because he wouldn't tell me), but I hope that WotC corrects these when they release the updated GSL.

At a quick glance I see several pieces that violate copyright and would still violate copyright even if you sign the GSL, it's a simple matter to send an email to WotC to establish that you are in the clear.

Which is the same thing I told him. Again, read what has been written. This person does not need knee-jerk reactions. He needs sound advice. I told him about his wrongful logo use, about his wrongful image use, and so on. Unless you, yourself, are a lawyer, I really can't take one piece of advice from you when I have an actual lawyer advising me. I'm pretty sure he has a firmer grasp of the issue than you do.
#9

guivre

Dec 15, 2008 10:24:00
Did you not read what I wrote? The part about using THEIR supplied GSL logo? The part about images used without permission? The part about "get a lawyer"? Reading...it's a fundamental part of online forum participation. Give it a try sometime.



Agreed. If you feel I have steered you wrong (or even if you haven't), consult with WotC. However...and this is a big however...my lawyer (and several others that he consulted with) have pointed out several flaws in the GSL that render parts of it moot. I hope that when WotC has finished reformatting the GSL, they make the appropriate changes that would at least make it a lawful document that could hold up in court. Using my lawyer's advice, I cannot point out the exact portions of the GSL that are not legitimate (mostly because he wouldn't tell me), but I hope that WotC corrects these when they release the updated GSL.



Which is the same thing I told him. Again, read what has been written. This person does not need knee-jerk reactions. He needs sound advice. I told him about his wrongful logo use, about his wrongful image use, and so on. Unless you, yourself, are a lawyer, I really can't take one piece of advice from you when I have an actual lawyer advising me. I'm pretty sure he has a firmer grasp of the issue than you do.

Actually I'm changing this to make it short and sweet:

The GSL is not the fansite policy. The content in question would not be covered under the GSL in these circumstances period. It is irrelevant to the discussion. You may run along and talk to your alleged lawyer now. You misunderstand the issues involved at a fundamental level, so much so that you aren't even aware that you are talking nonsense apparently. You really shouldn't be posting answers to questions that you are clearly unqualified to answer. I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

OP: There is a fansite coming (theoretically). If you are unwilling to take your chances or wait for that, ask WotC directly.
#10

ngamble

Dec 15, 2008 11:01:05
Yeah, the GSL even states right in it that it applies to publications, either print or single access download (something like that).

3. Licensed Products. The license granted in Section 4 is for use solely in connection with Licensee’s publication, distribution, and sale of roleplaying games and roleplaying game supplements that contain the Licensed Materials and are published in a hardcover or soft-cover printed book format or in a single-download electronic book format (such as .pdf)

I basically have a fan-site going and they have no official policy put up on how they want those handled yet. (I've done some more forums searches to find that out since the first post here. I didn't know what to search for before, and I don't want this thread to turn into just another thread lamenting WotC's failure to put out an official policy on this yet.)