WOTC's new direction and the GSL - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

WOTC's new direction and the GSL

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Jan 15, 2011 14:59:49 Am I the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that the next thing WOTC will be revoking (they took away the online CB/MB /or at least will no longer be updating it\, they have made the magazine articles individual files and now they are cutting books offering rule expansions through DDI instead) the GSL so that the ONLY 4E material out there for sale is from them? I hope for the sake of my company that I am wrong, but it just seems like the next, or soon to be, step in their current direction.

Thoughts?
#2
lokiare
Jan 15, 2011 15:15:19
Am I the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that the next thing WOTC will be revoking (they took away the online CB/MB /or at least will no longer be updating it\, they have made the magazine articles individual files and now they are cutting books offering rule expansions through DDI instead) the GSL so that the ONLY 4E material out there for sale is from them? I hope for the sake of my company that I am wrong, but it just seems like the next, or soon to be, step in their current direction.

Thoughts?

If you make adventures I wouldn't worry too much. If you make campaign worlds, monsters, races, or classes, then you should worry. As that would be the first thing locked down....
#3
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Jan 15, 2011 17:31:41 I would think it would be all or nothing since, part of making adventures is making new monsters, otherwise what would be the point. I am, in fact, working on a Campaign Setting to support the locale where my adventures take place, so it is of major concern for me.

However, if that does happen, I will simply focus on Pathfinder versions of my work since that OGL is still open and those adventures sell very well.
#4
lokiare
Jan 15, 2011 17:45:59 Technically all of D&D fall under the OGL, unfortunately WotC thinks they can weedle out of it by calling it D&D 4E. So really legally you could argue that your creating contnet for OGL when you create content for 4E...
#5
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Jan 15, 2011 19:08:58
Technically all of D&D fall under the OGL, unfortunately WotC thinks they can weedle out of it by calling it D&D 4E. So really legally you could argue that your creating contnet for OGL when you create content for 4E...

Technically, yes, but there are enough variations between the GSL and the OGL that it would take an actual lawyer to sift through and finacially, that battle isn't worth it. (which is the way they want it, big guy eats little guy)
#6
uhf
Jan 16, 2011 22:55:33 Vilnias: (I recommend your stuff behind you back you know!)

They aren't exactly offering more material through DDI than they did before. They are offering less near as I can tell.

This long a dry season for 4e can only mean one thing. 5e is coming, 4e is dead. I'm assuming that 5e will be on the 4e engine, but I could be wrong. (Round here, Pathfinder died 3 months ago, I presume that OGL is now online sales only which is a shame.)

When 5e comes out, they may revoke the GSL outright, or simply reinstate any hated clauses. Its in their power to do so.

In any case, you do not need to sign the GSL at all. The purpose of the GSL is to allow you to quote some or all bits of text from power descriptions etc. If you don't sign the GSL you can refer to 4e material with safety. (Kingdoms of Kalamar 4e isn't GSL.) If you need monsters, create them from scratch, and you own it, not WOTC.

lokaire: They can't lock anything specific down unless they change the GSL. As it stands, they can only revoke it, for everyone.
#7
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Jan 16, 2011 23:51:44
Vilnias: (I recommend your stuff behind you back you know!)

They aren't exactly offering more material through DDI than they did before. They are offering less near as I can tell.

This is what I am hoping for as well, it basically means that die-hard 4E fans will be looking for new material and the only place to find it will be with 3PP. The same holds true for new settings, other than the boxed versions like Gamma World and Ravenloft, they most likely won't be making any more settings, new or otherwise.

And thanks for recommending my work, you don't need to do it behind my back, I'll take all the press I can get.

#8
bone_naga
Jan 28, 2011 20:38:47 What UHF said. While unfortunately they could revoke the GSL to stop some good material that is already out there, in reality publishers could continue to make D&D products without the GSL. Whether or not they would is another matter.

However, it seems to me that 3pp products aren't directly competing with WotC like some of them were during 3e (creating their own PHBs, MMs, and DMGs, basically setting it up so you could buy their books without ANY WotC products). GSL publishers seem to be filling in the gaps WotC has left, like Goodman publishing Forgotten Heroes (classes that at the time had not been created by WotC), or Dias Ex Machina doing modern and sci-fi rules. Toss in the fact that GSL products still require WotC material to run the game, and there's really no reason to revoke them.

Personally (sorry I know I'm straying a little from the point of the thread), I like a lot of 3pp material (not to mention they tend to sell pdfs whereas WotC doesn't, which is a huge convenience for me) and I would like better support for it from WotC. My two main gripes about DDI is 1) all online, and 2) no 3pp support. If publishers could create data files that I could buy and install into the CB (assuming they hadn't discontinued the offline CB), then I would use the CB. Since I was already using it, I would want it up to date, so I would need regular DDI access. Likewise, if Masterplan could still get DDI data, it would be beneficial to have a DDI account. But WotC strikes again and takes away what customers would pay for and instead you can find the stuff on pirate sites.

Lokiare, I suppose you probably could use the OGL, but you wouldn't really gain anything from it. The main advantage of the OGL was being able to reprint entire blocks of text from 3e. You could not do the same thing with blocks of 4e text even if you said you were publishing it under the 3e OGL since the OGL uses a different SRD.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Vilnias_Nastavnik Jan 15, 2011 14:59:49	Am I the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that the next thing WOTC will be revoking (they took away the online CB/MB /or at least will no longer be updating it\, they have made the magazine articles individual files and now they are cutting books offering rule expansions through DDI instead) the GSL so that the ONLY 4E material out there for sale is from them? I hope for the sake of my company that I am wrong, but it just seems like the next, or soon to be, step in their current direction. Thoughts?
#2 lokiare Jan 15, 2011 15:15:19	Am I the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that the next thing WOTC will be revoking (they took away the online CB/MB /or at least will no longer be updating it\, they have made the magazine articles individual files and now they are cutting books offering rule expansions through DDI instead) the GSL so that the ONLY 4E material out there for sale is from them? I hope for the sake of my company that I am wrong, but it just seems like the next, or soon to be, step in their current direction. Thoughts? If you make adventures I wouldn't worry too much. If you make campaign worlds, monsters, races, or classes, then you should worry. As that would be the first thing locked down....
#3 Vilnias_Nastavnik Jan 15, 2011 17:31:41	I would think it would be all or nothing since, part of making adventures is making new monsters, otherwise what would be the point. I am, in fact, working on a Campaign Setting to support the locale where my adventures take place, so it is of major concern for me. However, if that does happen, I will simply focus on Pathfinder versions of my work since that OGL is still open and those adventures sell very well.
#4 lokiare Jan 15, 2011 17:45:59	Technically all of D&D fall under the OGL, unfortunately WotC thinks they can weedle out of it by calling it D&D 4E. So really legally you could argue that your creating contnet for OGL when you create content for 4E...
#5 Vilnias_Nastavnik Jan 15, 2011 19:08:58	Technically all of D&D fall under the OGL, unfortunately WotC thinks they can weedle out of it by calling it D&D 4E. So really legally you could argue that your creating contnet for OGL when you create content for 4E... Technically, yes, but there are enough variations between the GSL and the OGL that it would take an actual lawyer to sift through and finacially, that battle isn't worth it. (which is the way they want it, big guy eats little guy)
#6 uhf Jan 16, 2011 22:55:33	Vilnias: (I recommend your stuff behind you back you know!) They aren't exactly offering more material through DDI than they did before. They are offering less near as I can tell. This long a dry season for 4e can only mean one thing. 5e is coming, 4e is dead. I'm assuming that 5e will be on the 4e engine, but I could be wrong. (Round here, Pathfinder died 3 months ago, I presume that OGL is now online sales only which is a shame.) When 5e comes out, they may revoke the GSL outright, or simply reinstate any hated clauses. Its in their power to do so. In any case, you do not need to sign the GSL at all. The purpose of the GSL is to allow you to quote some or all bits of text from power descriptions etc. If you don't sign the GSL you can refer to 4e material with safety. (Kingdoms of Kalamar 4e isn't GSL.) If you need monsters, create them from scratch, and you own it, not WOTC. lokaire: They can't lock anything specific down unless they change the GSL. As it stands, they can only revoke it, for everyone.
#7 Vilnias_Nastavnik Jan 16, 2011 23:51:44	Vilnias: (I recommend your stuff behind you back you know!) They aren't exactly offering more material through DDI than they did before. They are offering less near as I can tell. This is what I am hoping for as well, it basically means that die-hard 4E fans will be looking for new material and the only place to find it will be with 3PP. The same holds true for new settings, other than the boxed versions like Gamma World and Ravenloft, they most likely won't be making any more settings, new or otherwise. And thanks for recommending my work, you don't need to do it behind my back, I'll take all the press I can get.
#8 bone_naga Jan 28, 2011 20:38:47	What UHF said. While unfortunately they could revoke the GSL to stop some good material that is already out there, in reality publishers could continue to make D&D products without the GSL. Whether or not they would is another matter. However, it seems to me that 3pp products aren't directly competing with WotC like some of them were during 3e (creating their own PHBs, MMs, and DMGs, basically setting it up so you could buy their books without ANY WotC products). GSL publishers seem to be filling in the gaps WotC has left, like Goodman publishing Forgotten Heroes (classes that at the time had not been created by WotC), or Dias Ex Machina doing modern and sci-fi rules. Toss in the fact that GSL products still require WotC material to run the game, and there's really no reason to revoke them. Personally (sorry I know I'm straying a little from the point of the thread), I like a lot of 3pp material (not to mention they tend to sell pdfs whereas WotC doesn't, which is a huge convenience for me) and I would like better support for it from WotC. My two main gripes about DDI is 1) all online, and 2) no 3pp support. If publishers could create data files that I could buy and install into the CB (assuming they hadn't discontinued the offline CB), then I would use the CB. Since I was already using it, I would want it up to date, so I would need regular DDI access. Likewise, if Masterplan could still get DDI data, it would be beneficial to have a DDI account. But WotC strikes again and takes away what customers would pay for and instead you can find the stuff on pirate sites. Lokiare, I suppose you probably could use the OGL, but you wouldn't really gain anything from it. The main advantage of the OGL was being able to reprint entire blocks of text from 3e. You could not do the same thing with blocks of 4e text even if you said you were publishing it under the 3e OGL since the OGL uses a different SRD.