Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Timpookie Mar 15, 2015 21:08:39	Uhh... Yeah... I've been playing in a 4e campaign with a character who is now level 3 with only a thousand xp to go until level 4 and the number of magic items (that are better than the mundane weaponry I started with several levels back) that I have is also a letter of the alphabet - 0.   This is the first campaign I've played with the DM, and one or two things about his DMing style seem different/off, and I'm just wondering if this is one of those things and this is a low-magic campaign, though everyone else seems to be getting good magic items.   I mean, I got two magic items, but I just ignored them because they were worse than mundane weaponry (A +1 magic shortsword does less damage than a Flail if wielded two-handed and I absolutely hate using weapons that deal damage to their user) and I didn't sell them because my character has no concept of abstract currency (most gold just goes towards magic items anyway, I informed my DM of this multiple times and it should be ridiculously simple to add a few more magic items into the loot so that everything is balanced). I gave a list of magic item requests for levels 1 through 5 (just a list of cool magic items that could be of help) and the list was completely and utterly ignored, instead the DM used a diceroll to determine all loot (congratulations! Your wizard character just found a +2 Magic Platemail! This should help a LOT!)   So is it common for a DM to give practically no magic items, and for the magic items given out to be useless? I think it isn't, but I just want some second opinions before bringing this up as a serious issue about the campaign.
#2 Beoric Mar 15, 2015 21:49:53	It sounds like a lower magic campaign.  IIRC, if you are playing with inherent bonuses, the default is to receive two magic items every five levels (DMG2 p. 138), so you are at par even if you don't like the items.  You didn't say anything about your class or options, but I note that a +1 shortsword is considerably more accurate than a normal flail, so your items may be more useful than you think.   Rolling items randomly is a technique from earlier editions that is not the default position in 4e, but it should be manageable as long as the DM is paying attention, and it shouldn't be a huge problem as long as you are using inherent bonuses.  It certainly can't be any worse than using the pre-assigned items in, say Keep on the Shadowfell.  There are a lot of ways your DM can manage magic items, so I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that its not going to work out in the end.    It would mitigate things consideraby if the party ritual caster received the Enchant Magic Item and Transfer Enchantment ritual by 4th level.  If it doesn't show up in an NPC spellbook, since your DM seems to be doing it old school said ritual caster may wish to speak to him about spell research.  That +2 plate enchantment can be transferred to cloth armor, which will put the wizard ahead of the curve even if you are playing with inherent bonuses.   If you are not playing with inherent bonuses, ask your DM what he is doing to compensate, because the math will work against you pretty quickly.  By level 4 you need a +1 weapon and/or implement and +1 armor and neck items to match what you would get with inherent bonuses.
#3 Timpookie Mar 16, 2015 5:04:23	Beoric wrote:
#4 darkwarlock Mar 16, 2015 5:30:02	If you're using a flail (and not an alhulak or triple headed flail, a superior weapon, btw), that short sword is actually +2 to hit. Check the CharOp boards for how much more valuable that 10% chance to hit is than simply an additional point or two of damage. (Pro tip: a lot.; a miss does no damage, whereas a hit with even a slightly lower damage die does damage.)   And if you're deliberately gimping your character for not capitalizing upon the wealth your character does find, even if the items aren't perfectly suited, then it's hard to criticize your DM and not your gameplay style. 4E does not support characters who eschew the wealth system--even with inherent bonuses. Fluff the wealth however you want (the gold your character acquires is actually "good will" earned with merchants or kings who shower the PC with boons, whatever), but you can't play the game as designed without it.   Perhaps your DM is trying to goad you into more reasoned play without specifically asking or demanding you play a certain way?
#5 Beoric Mar 16, 2015 5:54:05	You are playing a ranger, which I presume is a melee character because of the flail.  You presumably have twin strike, and are turning your nose up at a +1 off-hand weapon in favour of using a less accurate weapon two handed - which item you can use even if you didn't choose to be a two-weapon ranger.  You might want to give your DM's item choices a chance, they may be better than you think.
#6 Timpookie Mar 16, 2015 16:41:42	Beoric wrote:
#7 Timpookie Mar 16, 2015 16:44:46	darkwarlock wrote:
#8 darkwarlock Mar 16, 2015 16:50:17	Well, Tim, with such an attitude I really have no idea what you hope to gain by posting here. Play the way you want to play, I suppose, but know what you call "being in-character" is a huge detriment to your group's play. It's actually not so far off from the dude who insists on playing a chaotic evil character and fostering character vs. character violence. I know you're quite young (you posted once about being thirteen a few years ago), but I expect once you've had some more experience you'll find that working within the confines of the game's structure allows for more fun gameplay.
#9 CCS Mar 16, 2015 17:04:58	Perhaps it's time your character learned the value/concept of $. You say that the wizard won't use his gold to Enchant things for you? Well of course not! But I bet he'd use YOUR gold.... So instead of feeding it to the warforged, feed it to the wizard. Better yet, anybody can learn the ritual caster feat. Learn that. Then learn the enchant item/transfer enchantment ritual and use your gold yourself. ------------------------------------ On finding the items you actually want: Don't just hand in a wish list & expect to see those items turn up. Personally I'm betting you'll get the same result if you mailed a letter to Santa, or wished upon the 1st star you see some night.... Instead? Well, you know what items you want. And your an adventurer. So figure out what tomb you need to rob, what dragons hoard you need to plunder, etc - and go get them.
#10 Beoric Mar 16, 2015 18:37:00	I remember this character now.   DMs help those who help themselves.  You need to give the DM something to work with (and no, a wish list doesn't count).  By that I mean your PC needs to do something in his own cause, like figuring out the value of those shiny gold disks (or at least giving them to another party member who does value them), finding the best use for the items he does receive, or questing for specific items if you don't like what the DM is assigning.   Or for a metaphor at the opposite end of the spectrum, survival of the fittest applies to PCs.  If you design a PC in a way, or play him in a way, that negatively impacts on the odds of survival of him and/or his party, the results are fairly predictable.  Throwing away or refusing to use resources is likely to do just that.  You are not in a position to find fault with your DM for what he or she is doing, until you take responsibility for the choices you are making.
#11 Zathris Mar 16, 2015 20:32:41	Beoric wrote:
(Reply to #11) CCS	Zathris wrote:
#13 Zathris Mar 17, 2015 3:10:11	It has nothing to do with my advice. My advice to him would get my post deleted.   D&D is a team game, and with 4e in particular, if you don't have a DM experienced/willing enough to adjust things based on party capability, playing a PC that fails to achieve at a reasonable level is actively harmful to the rest of the group. D&D is also a game about heroic adventurers, you *can* make it about something else, but in order to make that square peg fit the round hole, you have to put in a lot more work and make some compromises and adjustments (alternative rules/house rules). Adventurers exist as very broadly imagined characters already, but they aren't merchants, politicians, aesetic pacifist clergy, lumberjacks, etc. they may *have* been, but there's reasons (backstory) for the PCs to have become adventurers. There's also something that separates PCs from NPC cohorts, and that's character drive and development. This "Gnoll ranger that lacks concepts of personal advancement" is not. a. PC. This character exists solely as a fulfilled desire of a single player and the and the patience of the rest of the table.   Though yes, I do find it personally insulting, as someone who has contributed to the development of the game and is friends with some of the actual writers and developers, that someone is outright ignoring options specifically designed for such a character concept because they refuse to adjust the specifically mutable flavor and want to have "Gnoll Ranger" and "Flail" written on the character sheet. This type of player is, by definition, a scrub, and ... I would compare them to autistic children, but I don't want to be insulting to people with autism.
#14 Beoric Mar 17, 2015 5:50:32	Personally, I don't mind if the whole party is under par and requires DM adjustment.  But I do mind if one PC is dragging his teammates down.  IIRC, the OP not only declined to take his share of treasure, he actually destroyed it so noone else could use it either.  Now he declines to use an item he is given becuase it doesn't have the right flavor, and is thereby failing to pull his weight.  Intentionally or not, he is sabotaging the party, and then blaming the DM for his own choices.   Let's not forget why he posted here, because he does not come with clean hands.  He was looking for permission to be mad at his DM for his character issues, when in fact they are of his own creation.  Moreover, those issues had already been pointed out to him, so all this thread shows is that he is reaping what he has sown, and trying to blame someone else for it.
#15 Matyr Mar 17, 2015 11:54:44	Well, this sort of thing is what leads people to eventually wrap their brains around the system they are playing, quit playing voluntarily or get removed from groups.  Thats really the only positive steps forward that can be taken from this point.   While I don't agree with random loot, a ranger should be using a ranged weapon or two one-handed weapons.  If you are a beast mastery ranger using a 2handed flail, you are causing problems for your own group and should be treated as a problem.  It is hard to read into the DM's intentions, but if I had a player who stubbornly wanted to stick to their concept as you have I would likely not reward them with free items of their choice either.  Being a detriment to your group should be discouraged as much as DM decisions which harm player fun.  Given that I know at least a little about where you are coming from, I don't give you the benefit of the doubt that I give your DM (and all humans before they try to explain themselves for that matter).   Your options are as follows: Live with your poor decisions and realise that your attitude makes it very hard to garner support when other possibly poor choices are made. Learn to play as a team member and actually try to be useful to your group and then talk with your DM. Learn nothing, whine at your DM and hope he doesn't use the forums to find this post explicitly telling you that you are in the wrong.  That would be awkward. Learn the basics of the system you are playing that highly highly support using the ability to refluff as a way of being effective and living your idea as non-exlusive concepts.  From what I can see being a Gnoll Barbarian with Fey Beast Tamer would satisfy all of your requirements and not be horrid.
#16 CCS Mar 17, 2015 19:52:58	Wow, so much hate for the kid. All because he dares to have a vision for his character that doesn't match up with whatever several of you believe the optimal choices to be..... Seriously, listen to yourselves. You're spewing venom because he doesn't want to use +1 shortsword. Which really breaks down to a +1 to hit. But If declining a mere +1 to hit so completely shatters this edition of the game? Then the game is highly flawed. ----------------- As to Tim not being a team player? How do you know? Are any of you in the game with him? Other than not doing whatever you think is optimal to-hit/damage, do any of you know if hes not doing other ranger-appropriate things? After all, I'm led to believe by ardent 4e lovers that this edition was STILL an RPG, not just a s***** minitures/board game where all that matters is the combat. If so I'd imagine there's other ways to tell if a player/character is a team player beyond the presence of a +1. Besides, he's stated that he allows the rest of the party to have (or EAT in the warforgeds' case) his share of the $. How is that NOT helping the party? Granted, its not how you (or likely i) would do it, but.... Presumably they've each now got more $ (cept maybe the WF) to enhance their own +s.
#17 baldhermit Mar 17, 2015 21:07:22	errr, CCS, a two handed flail in the hands of a beastmaster is actively destroying your characters ability to be mechanically useful, while a reflavored slayer, barbarian or avenger (just named the first three that came to mind) could achieve the same thing and be not as hampered.
#18 Beoric Mar 17, 2015 22:42:27	CCS, I would have had a problem playing 1e with a fighter who dumped strength, too.  Or a thief who dumped dex.  Or, for that matter, who refused to collect treasure, especially since in that edition GP=XP.  Don't say this is an edition thing, cause it isn't.    This is not the first time the OP has started a thread complaining about his group, so obviously things aren't rosy there:  http://community.wizards.com/forum/whats-player-do/threads/4179501.   Its not the first time he has discussed turning his nose up at treasure either.  I mean, if you aren't going to take it, at least give it to your teammates (he left the +1 sword in the chest he had found it in).  Again, when I played 1e, a player that gave up a +2 shortsword in favour of a nonmagical flail would have made me shake my head.  And that is about the equivalent difference here.   If the OP wants to play the way he plays, and his teammates don't mind, and his DM doesn't mind, I don't care.  What I do care about is when his playstyle causes a problem, and he reacts by beating up his DM.  If he wants to roleplay the equivalent of a stupid 1e Magic-User, he can't complain that it is the DM's fault that his character isn't as tough as he wants it to be.  No, if he really wants to play that role, then he needs to accept that he is not going to be as effective as others.
#19 Zathris Mar 18, 2015 3:00:36	CCS wrote:
#20 Matyr Mar 18, 2015 17:04:00	CCS wrote:
#21 Timpookie Mar 19, 2015 5:03:30	Zathris wrote:
#22 Matyr Mar 19, 2015 8:48:27	Timpookie wrote:
#23 Timpookie Mar 19, 2015 17:54:52	Matyr wrote:
#24 baldhermit Mar 19, 2015 20:07:43	The math is even more off than the logic.   Magic Short sword +1 at let's say level 4 : Attack : primary attack stat (likely Str) for a +4, enhancement of the weapon for a +1, proficiency of the weapon for a +3, half level for a +2, feat bonus expertise for a +1 = +11 to hit Damage : 1d6 + primary stat (4) + enhancement (1) = 1d6+5   Flail at let's say level 4 : Attack : primary attack stat (likely Str) for a +4, enhancement of the weapon for a +0, proficiency of the weapon for a +2, half level for a +2, feat bonus expertise for a +1 = +9 to hit Damage : 1d10 + primary stat (4) + enhancement (0) = 1d10+4   Opponent: level 6 monster with let's say 19 AC Magic +1 short sword : 35% chance to miss, 0 damage. 60% chance to hit for ~8.5 damage. 5% chance to crit for ~14.5 = 5.825 average damage per swing Flail : 45% chance to miss, 0 damage. 50% chance to hit for ~9.5 damage. 5% chance to crit for ~14 = 5.45 damage per average swing
#25 Zathris Mar 19, 2015 20:25:53	Timpookie wrote:
#26 Timpookie Mar 19, 2015 20:58:01	baldhermit wrote:
#27 baldhermit Mar 19, 2015 21:03:08	So happy that I play with intelligent adults.
#28 Timpookie Mar 20, 2015 0:43:55	Zathris wrote:
#29 Matyr Mar 20, 2015 3:03:54	So... Even after someone empirically proves your math incorrect you are sticking to it?  Thats fun.  Also you say your stats are 16+2 which means your mod will be 5 by level 4?  That seems... well blatantly wrong.  4 is a +1 to 2 stats, meaning you go from 18 to 19 and are still at +4.  Also all that does is move the math numbers (both shortsword and flail) up by 1 and flail still loses every time.  That is also ignoring the extra chance to crit (and that matters cause your non-magic weapon can't add crit dice and you can use your quarry after you crit to max it out).   Also the power choice thing is no joke.  Claws of the Griffon, depending on reading, is one of the most broken bloody powers in the entire game.  And you won't have access to it because you aren't dual weilding.   Really shouldn't compare yourself to Newton and Einstein while on a thread showing a willful ignorance for basic mathematics and statistics...
#30 Zathris Mar 21, 2015 0:27:11	Timpookie wrote:
(Reply to #7) MrCustomer	Timpookie wrote:
#32 Timpookie Mar 23, 2015 9:27:34	Zathris wrote:
#33 Zathris Mar 23, 2015 16:54:23	Someone claiming Aspergers explaining social etiquette is like someone claiming to be a Virgin explaining what sex feels like.
#34 Matyr Mar 25, 2015 16:15:41	Zathris wrote: