3.5 elf sorcereress question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 elf sorcereress question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
yamishinobi
Sep 02, 2008 15:49:06 i have 2 campaigns i go to with 2 groups, 1 on fridays, 1 on saturdays, both have "rules lawyers" in the saturday one i play and elf sorcereress, the two groups though they have never met the other, have different views on elf trance, namely in spell recovery.

the friday dungeon master though disorganized says elf trance only takes 4 hours for all effects, including spells, as do that groups rules lawyer (remember, disorganized) jeff and tony believe the 4 hour rule applies to all sleep benefits for elves, however they add lib racial abilities like that. however they call underpowered hybrid classes overpowered

the saturday groups biggest rules lawyer says elven trance takes 8 hours for spell recovery and the DM doesn't want to look up the rules. why must seth bag on me for playing an elf, he tries to remove the one thing that makes high elf sorcerers viable. and Seth is a major munchkin,

Knight/Fighter/Paladin/Future Hellreaver to be of St. Cuthbert specialized in tripping, power attacking, Diplomancy, and mounted charging, but he is the Wand of CLW guy. and he is the best at all of these. as well as the destruction of evil outsiders, i saw him trip a young adult black dragon on a roll of natural 1 and the dragon had 19 on the dice

who's right about the elven trance rule.

please post a link to the elven trance rule, i pray that spell recovery ends up taking only 4 hours, (why i chose to play an elf sorcereress in the first place)

this is for the saturday dm who doesn't want to look at the rule. and believes seth on almost every ruling. though some help. some elderly figure named william.
#2
fabius_maximus
Sep 02, 2008 16:03:17 They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells.

Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'.

The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site.
#3
yamishinobi
Sep 02, 2008 16:04:57
They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells.

Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'.

The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site.

so elf trance doesn't help spellcasters. darn. i remember reading that 4 hours of trance counts as 8 hours of sleep.

BY RAW

do you need 8 hours of sleep

or just 8 hours of relaxation? (light activity such as sitting, eating, talking, etc)
#4
yamishinobi
Sep 02, 2008 16:10:17
They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells.

Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'.

The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site.

where is the ruling?
#5
Arcane_Guyver
Sep 02, 2008 16:10:45
Elves do not sleep as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.

Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which he spends 15 minutes concentrating.... Without such a period to refresh himself, the character does not regain the spell slots he used up the day before.

By RAW, elves only get the benefits a human gains with 8 hours of sleep by trancing. Resting for spell preperation is not a normal benefit humans receive from 8 hours of sleep.
#6
yamishinobi
Sep 02, 2008 16:13:50
By RAW, elves only get the benefits a human gains with 8 hours of sleep by trancing. Resting for spell preperation is not a normal benefit humans receive from 8 hours of sleep.

darn that munchkin Seth, he was right after all about the 8 hours, however rest and sleep aren't neccessarily the same, right? what other light activities don't interfere during 8 hours of rest?
#7
Arcane_Guyver
Sep 02, 2008 16:26:56 A few examples: using the Heal skill to perform 'Aid Another,' keeping watch, or using the Craft skill to repair a construct (not sure about the last).

Edit: As shown below, though, 3e also functions under the 'exception-based design' model. Spellcasters can rest for 8 hours while not necessarily sleeping, but the won't regain spells if doing anything other than just laying around.
#8
guntherfuzz8
Sep 02, 2008 16:37:27 From the SRD:
To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

#9
dirtyfrank
Sep 02, 2008 16:39:28 The cool thing about the trance is that you are healed after 4 hours instead of the 8 hours for other races. Also the elf can rest for 4 remaining hours but be able to keep guard (must remain in a state of relaxation though). During the last 4 hours of the rest the elf can be an extra set of eyes and ears to help detect ambushers.
#10
yamishinobi
Sep 02, 2008 16:54:36
The cool thing about the trance is that you are healed after 4 hours instead of the 8 hours for other races. Also the elf can rest for 4 remaining hours but be able to keep guard (must remain in a state of relaxation though). During the last 4 hours of the rest the elf can be an extra set of eyes and ears to help detect ambushers.

oh yeah, +2 to notice ambushers, purely from race, that's right a 10 wisdom and no ranks. i don't bother hunting secret doors, i do have the highest spellcraft and arcana next to the drow wizard in the party, (he's a 0 L.A. lesser drow and the last "Special" race slot in the campaign, everything after that is stictly PHB, when duskblade dies, no more duskblades, the clerics are now limited to 3 or 4 gods for pc's Moradin, Kord, Wee Jaas Or St. Cuthbert, if your character is of a non phb race or class they must worship St. Cuthbert. and characters of those races ro classes are extremely rare, i tried to argue that grey elves are just as common as high elves, he still counts them as specials and taxed a slot. so i had to be high elf, the only real advantage is i don't have to carry a spellbook, though i do rent from the local library, dm said no followers of vecna. even if they are not evil. and he personally hates draconic races, and anything too noncore (saturday group) such as psionics, book of 9 swords, incarnum, unearthed arcana, and pretty much every spellcaster that has a non vancian mechanic. all non mentioned dieties have few followers, ( no chaotic neutral vecnan grey elf wizards for me.) (nor rogues who worship anything but st. cuthbert)

sorry for the off topic part.
#11
Zherog
Sep 03, 2008 9:38:05 The 3.5 FAQ can be found on this page. In that document, you'll find this:

The description of the ring of sustenance says the user gets all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep in 2 hours. How does this affect a bard, sorcerer, or wizard who wants to regain spells? Specifically, how does this interact with the casting limit rule in the PH?

In the case of a ring of sustenance, “all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep” means the character sleeps for 2 hours and regains 1 hit point per level (see the rules for natural healing on Chapter 8 of the PH). If the ring wearer is fatigued, 2 hours of sleep removes the fatigue.

A wizard must have 8 hours of rest before regaining spells. If the wizard doesn’t have to sleep for some reason, she still requires 8 hours of rest to regain any spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells on page 177 of the PH). A ring of sustenance doesn’t change that.

A bard or sorcerer regains spells only once a day, and a ring of sustenance doesn’t increase that.

A ring of sustenance also doesn’t exempt the wearer from the casting limit rule. Whenever a spellcaster gets a new set of spells, any spell slot she used in the last 8 hours is not available. This rule has nothing to do with how much sleep the spellcaster gets; it reflects how long a spell slot must remain empty before the character can refill it. The ring doesn’t make 8 hours pass, so it doesn’t help the character refill the used spell slot.

Now, this question is specifically about the ring of sustenance, but it's answer does apply to the question at hand -- in particular, the second paragraph.
#12
jovban31
Nov 20, 2010 12:21:29 How would a ring of sustenance affect a psionic character with a power point reserve? would he regain all th power points spent the previous day, or..?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yamishinobi Sep 02, 2008 15:49:06	i have 2 campaigns i go to with 2 groups, 1 on fridays, 1 on saturdays, both have "rules lawyers" in the saturday one i play and elf sorcereress, the two groups though they have never met the other, have different views on elf trance, namely in spell recovery. the friday dungeon master though disorganized says elf trance only takes 4 hours for all effects, including spells, as do that groups rules lawyer (remember, disorganized) jeff and tony believe the 4 hour rule applies to all sleep benefits for elves, however they add lib racial abilities like that. however they call underpowered hybrid classes overpowered the saturday groups biggest rules lawyer says elven trance takes 8 hours for spell recovery and the DM doesn't want to look up the rules. why must seth bag on me for playing an elf, he tries to remove the one thing that makes high elf sorcerers viable. and Seth is a major munchkin, Knight/Fighter/Paladin/Future Hellreaver to be of St. Cuthbert specialized in tripping, power attacking, Diplomancy, and mounted charging, but he is the Wand of CLW guy. and he is the best at all of these. as well as the destruction of evil outsiders, i saw him trip a young adult black dragon on a roll of natural 1 and the dragon had 19 on the dice who's right about the elven trance rule. please post a link to the elven trance rule, i pray that spell recovery ends up taking only 4 hours, (why i chose to play an elf sorcereress in the first place) this is for the saturday dm who doesn't want to look at the rule. and believes seth on almost every ruling. though some help. some elderly figure named william.
#2 fabius_maximus Sep 02, 2008 16:03:17	They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells. Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'. The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site.
#3 yamishinobi Sep 02, 2008 16:04:57	They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells. Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'. The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site. so elf trance doesn't help spellcasters. darn. i remember reading that 4 hours of trance counts as 8 hours of sleep. BY RAW do you need 8 hours of sleep or just 8 hours of relaxation? (light activity such as sitting, eating, talking, etc)
#4 yamishinobi Sep 02, 2008 16:10:17	They are both right. Elves go into reverie for 4 hours, but spellcasters still have to rest for 8 hours to replenish their spells. Note that 'rest' does not mean 'sleep'. The ruling is in the FAQ somewhere, I think. You can download it here on the site. where is the ruling?
#5 Arcane_Guyver Sep 02, 2008 16:10:45	Elves do not sleep as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which he spends 15 minutes concentrating.... Without such a period to refresh himself, the character does not regain the spell slots he used up the day before. By RAW, elves only get the benefits a human gains with 8 hours of sleep by trancing. Resting for spell preperation is not a normal benefit humans receive from 8 hours of sleep.
#6 yamishinobi Sep 02, 2008 16:13:50	By RAW, elves only get the benefits a human gains with 8 hours of sleep by trancing. Resting for spell preperation is not a normal benefit humans receive from 8 hours of sleep. darn that munchkin Seth, he was right after all about the 8 hours, however rest and sleep aren't neccessarily the same, right? what other light activities don't interfere during 8 hours of rest?
#7 Arcane_Guyver Sep 02, 2008 16:26:56	A few examples: using the Heal skill to perform 'Aid Another,' keeping watch, or using the Craft skill to repair a construct (not sure about the last). Edit: As shown below, though, 3e also functions under the 'exception-based design' model. Spellcasters can rest for 8 hours while not necessarily sleeping, but the won't regain spells if doing anything other than just laying around.
#8 guntherfuzz8 Sep 02, 2008 16:37:27	From the SRD: To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
#9 dirtyfrank Sep 02, 2008 16:39:28	The cool thing about the trance is that you are healed after 4 hours instead of the 8 hours for other races. Also the elf can rest for 4 remaining hours but be able to keep guard (must remain in a state of relaxation though). During the last 4 hours of the rest the elf can be an extra set of eyes and ears to help detect ambushers.
#10 yamishinobi Sep 02, 2008 16:54:36	The cool thing about the trance is that you are healed after 4 hours instead of the 8 hours for other races. Also the elf can rest for 4 remaining hours but be able to keep guard (must remain in a state of relaxation though). During the last 4 hours of the rest the elf can be an extra set of eyes and ears to help detect ambushers. oh yeah, +2 to notice ambushers, purely from race, that's right a 10 wisdom and no ranks. i don't bother hunting secret doors, i do have the highest spellcraft and arcana next to the drow wizard in the party, (he's a 0 L.A. lesser drow and the last "Special" race slot in the campaign, everything after that is stictly PHB, when duskblade dies, no more duskblades, the clerics are now limited to 3 or 4 gods for pc's Moradin, Kord, Wee Jaas Or St. Cuthbert, if your character is of a non phb race or class they must worship St. Cuthbert. and characters of those races ro classes are extremely rare, i tried to argue that grey elves are just as common as high elves, he still counts them as specials and taxed a slot. so i had to be high elf, the only real advantage is i don't have to carry a spellbook, though i do rent from the local library, dm said no followers of vecna. even if they are not evil. and he personally hates draconic races, and anything too noncore (saturday group) such as psionics, book of 9 swords, incarnum, unearthed arcana, and pretty much every spellcaster that has a non vancian mechanic. all non mentioned dieties have few followers, ( no chaotic neutral vecnan grey elf wizards for me.) (nor rogues who worship anything but st. cuthbert) sorry for the off topic part.
#11 Zherog Sep 03, 2008 9:38:05	The 3.5 FAQ can be found on this page. In that document, you'll find this: The description of the ring of sustenance says the user gets all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep in 2 hours. How does this affect a bard, sorcerer, or wizard who wants to regain spells? Specifically, how does this interact with the casting limit rule in the PH? In the case of a ring of sustenance, “all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep” means the character sleeps for 2 hours and regains 1 hit point per level (see the rules for natural healing on Chapter 8 of the PH). If the ring wearer is fatigued, 2 hours of sleep removes the fatigue. A wizard must have 8 hours of rest before regaining spells. If the wizard doesn’t have to sleep for some reason, she still requires 8 hours of rest to regain any spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells on page 177 of the PH). A ring of sustenance doesn’t change that. A bard or sorcerer regains spells only once a day, and a ring of sustenance doesn’t increase that. A ring of sustenance also doesn’t exempt the wearer from the casting limit rule. Whenever a spellcaster gets a new set of spells, any spell slot she used in the last 8 hours is not available. This rule has nothing to do with how much sleep the spellcaster gets; it reflects how long a spell slot must remain empty before the character can refill it. The ring doesn’t make 8 hours pass, so it doesn’t help the character refill the used spell slot. Now, this question is specifically about the ring of sustenance, but it's answer does apply to the question at hand -- in particular, the second paragraph.
#12 jovban31 Nov 20, 2010 12:21:29	How would a ring of sustenance affect a psionic character with a power point reserve? would he regain all th power points spent the previous day, or..?