Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kinie Nov 15, 2008 2:18:13	To try and better understand my dilemma, let me explain. At the moment, I am a Half-Elf Rogue 5/Avenger 4. The rest of the party is currently a Saint of Illmatir who I know has a few levels of Mystic and some other classes, who has taken the Vow of Poverty and Vow of Pacifism feats with an Eirynes NPC as her girlfriend, her AC being 30-something and her Diplomacy skill being a +36. The next is a DM-made pixie Duskblade 6/Chosen of Mystra who has a better Hide score than me, his AC also being really high, and being a Chosen of Mystra, has several higher-level spells, including Gate. We have an Elan Psion (I can't remember his classes) who has a Nymph NPC, and a Half-Dragon, Half-Avian Fighter 2. And the spoiler block here is a basic recap of the last gaming session, so you know what has happened to put me into this dilemma. Last Game Session Story events (and the pixie Duskblade) led us into the 8th circle of Hell in an attempt to save the PC's boyfriend from an eternity of hopeless fights against millions of devils who use his soul as a toy to play around with as they fight in the Hall of Champions. We successfully sneak inside and go to free the boyfriend. Everyone fails Will saves and attempt to free a demon prince frozen there, while two NPCs who came with us succeeded and stopped the rest of the party from doing so. We finally save the NPC and as the duskblade casts Gate, the saint wants the rest of the party to try and save as many of the other people as they can. We're arguing for about 5 minutes straight when I get sick and tired of this. I Death Attack the saint to just KO her, so that the duskblade can finish making the Gate so we can get the hell out of... well, Hell. Unfortunately, the Gate we made was to the plane of Illmatir. So, needless to say, he wasn't happy with me. Several NPCs argued over me, since Illmatir wanted to throw my soul to the multiverse's winds. Eventually an agreement is reached: I must kill 100 members of people in the League of Darkness (evil world organization filled with powerful members) within a year or my soul gets vaporized. The game session ended there.
#2 kouk Nov 15, 2008 5:54:29	Well... maybe you should leave the game. You might all be happier. Your playstyle does not seem to mesh well with that of the rest of the group. Forgive me if I don't sympathize with your wanting to develop your own character's goals and backstory at the complete exclusion of every single other player in the room, for who-knows-how-long in game time. I'd suggest discussing your issues about loot and the imbalance thereof and how it is affecting your enjoyment with the DM and everyone else. That's a valid concern. If your character is vehemently opposed to going along with the story, or inviting the other PCs into your own story, then it becomes very hard to DM for. Just consider what would happen if your character finally closes in on a lead, but then you have to wait awhile while the Cleric handles the RP of his shopping trip -- for an hour of real time. It's sort of like that when you want to go off and do your own thing. I would note by your description your DM does sound somewhat railroady, maybe not the greatest in the world, but that's probably not the main issue. Sure your DM could work your PC's backstory into the main campaign more, I'd ask him to do that so you don't feel like you have to go far afield of the main party to search for clues. Preferably, the guy you want can end up being the same guy the party wants, and everyone gets along. Probably the simplest quick fix there. For a more permanent solution, I would suggest making a new character who can "play nice" with the rest of the people there. Start with a good alignment and become friends with the priests and wizards, because they are the ones with the real power. It's just a fact of that edition that if you aren't a spellcaster, you're just there to assist the spellcasters. Don't be too put off that minmaxing players will outshine your relatively "normal" character build, that happens a lot in that version. But honestly, that kind of character you described was part of the reason they removed Chaotic Neutral from the 4th edition rules. Not to dump on you too much (and I'm not preaching the greatness of 4e, just mentioning the direction the game has moved in with design philosophy), but that sort of character is more suited to being the brooding hero of a novel rather than a member of an adventuring group. If you don't get along with other people, then why are you adventuring with them? He should leave the party for his own reasons, as their goals are not related, and you can make a different character.
#3 RyndarLocke Nov 15, 2008 6:37:15	To try and better understand my dilemma, let me explain. At the moment, I am a Half-Elf Rogue 5/Avenger 4. The rest of the party is currently a Saint of Illmatir who I know has a few levels of Mystic and some other classes, who has taken the Vow of Poverty and Vow of Pacifism feats with an Eirynes NPC as her girlfriend, her AC being 30-something and her Diplomacy skill being a +36. The next is a DM-made pixie Duskblade 6/Chosen of Mystra who has a better Hide score than me, his AC also being really high, and being a Chosen of Mystra, has several higher-level spells, including Gate. We have an Elan Psion (I can't remember his classes) who has a Nymph NPC, and a Half-Dragon, Half-Avian Fighter 2. And the spoiler block here is a basic recap of the last gaming session, so you know what has happened to put me into this dilemma. Last Game Session Story events (and the pixie Duskblade) led us into the 8th circle of Hell in an attempt to save the PC's boyfriend from an eternity of hopeless fights against millions of devils who use his soul as a toy to play around with as they fight in the Hall of Champions. We successfully sneak inside and go to free the boyfriend. Everyone fails Will saves and attempt to free a demon prince frozen there, while two NPCs who came with us succeeded and stopped the rest of the party from doing so. We finally save the NPC and as the duskblade casts Gate, the saint wants the rest of the party to try and save as many of the other people as they can. We're arguing for about 5 minutes straight when I get sick and tired of this. I Death Attack the saint to just KO her, so that the duskblade can finish making the Gate so we can get the hell out of... well, Hell. Unfortunately, the Gate we made was to the plane of Illmatir. So, needless to say, he wasn't happy with me. Several NPCs argued over me, since Illmatir wanted to throw my soul to the multiverse's winds. Eventually an agreement is reached: I must kill 100 members of people in the League of Darkness (evil world organization filled with powerful members) within a year or my soul gets vaporized. The game session ended there.
#4 kinie Nov 15, 2008 16:48:51	The DM has found a way to integrate my character's goal to be a part of the story (the murderer being a member of the League of Darkness) but he never seems to give us a defined storypath to follow, nor does he throw my character a "backstory bone" from time to time. For the past two sessions we've just sat and argued over what to do next. If I do stick with the party, it would give us an actual goal for the party to achieve. But again, the character has no reason to believe that this assignment is one he can have others assist him with. And the other PCs are all longer DnD players than me. The cleric chose those feats as part of her character backstory, and she's a great healer, but she can't attack anything but undead, and so far, we've yet to fight a single undead creature. The duskblade pixie is not a good player IMO, but has played longer than me. Same for the half-dragon player; about the same playing expertise as the cleric. The DM's played DnD for several years and has DM'ed several other campaigns. In terms of expertise, I'm the newest, having played DnD for about 6 months now. And, in terms of questions about his alignment, the PC has done mainly good-aligned things (stopping the ressurection of a CE goddess and killing a devil king to start) while with the party. In fact, this is the first "evil" thing he's done that directly involved the party. Other times he'd do small stuff, like try to fix the party's wealth issue by getting better equipment for everyone, that would push him more-so to the evil side, but nothing that's been as outright evil as attacking a saint of Illmatir. The campaign world is DM-made, but the deities are the FR deities, hence why we have a Chosen of Mystra. My character doesn't like the gods much, or those who do use spells, feeling that the gods just play with the lives of mortals for their own amusement, and feeling that magic is - while useful - being exploited by those who use it for their own gains.
#5 fallenangel359 Nov 15, 2008 19:48:49	I used to play in that game as a la-boughtoff goliath totemist 2, druid 2, bard, who had an obsession with books. My character finished his quest... I really do feel like the DM in that game did do little to try to help Kinie... I quit that game, and joined another one.
#6 charke Nov 15, 2008 20:29:07	You mentioned that you are under wealthed several times, despite getting access to Gate spells and a Deck of Many Things. That's odd. There's a half dragon in your group? Elves get a +2/-2 ability bonus. Half dragons get a +20/-0 ability bonus. See a problem? A 10th level character with +36 diplomacy? Wow. (Lets see, 13 ranks, +5 from a normal max Charisma, +6 from synergies, +5 from the Skill Focus and Diplomat feats = 29, so this character is geting the other +7 from an Epic magic item?) What I'm seeing isn't a bad group but problems getting along together. If you focus too much on the Uber, you tend to miss things like food and roleplaying. The solution is to sit down and talk about the problems in the group outside of the game. It is about give and take. You need to give the other players a chance to participate in your character's personal project and you need to help in there's. The Lone Wolf character who doesn't want to have anything with the group is going to have trouble getting that group to support his solo activities. Mark Charke
#7 kinie Nov 15, 2008 23:13:07	The Gate spell was what the Duskblade pixie chose as his 9th level spell when he became a Chosen of Mystra. It's an actual template that grants you one spell from each spell level and the ability to cast it 3 times a day, along with the other spells you normally can cast per day, along with some spell immunities and a few other things. Somehow the cleric gets bonuses to her Diplomacy score due to how the Vow of Poverty and Vow of Pacifism feats synergize with each other, along with her maxing the skill out at every level and her getting a Saint template, which also boosts it a bit. The Deck of Many Things was an item that the DM rolled when we opened up a Bag of Holding found on the devil king's body. There was other equipment we were supposed to get to get us up to normal wealth levels, but circumstances beyond our control and the DM having a brain fart led to the Bag of Holding disappearing and him not one to "time step" back to fix an error, let the bag and its equipment stay disappeared. The half-dragon, half-avian person obviously has broken ability scores, but her current LA is 7, hence why she just became Fighter 2 and has like 24 health. I will be seeing all of the players and the DM tomorrow, and will probably let them know then what I'm going to do. After I talk with them.
#8 RyndarLocke Nov 17, 2008 3:34:29	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1114041 Go here. That post is now the reason I hate DnD and DnD Players.
#9 manic_man Nov 19, 2008 20:38:43	I Death Attack the saint to just KO her, so that the duskblade can finish making the Gate so we can get the hell out of... well, Hell. Now this was the stupid move by you. Since you're CN, just use the gate yourself and let the others see if they want to follow you or not. Your DM sounds like he has problems but this is only one side of the story (your side). Possibly you are being sidelined because you come off as a loot hungry powergamer (CN is a big hint)
#10 black_kitten Nov 20, 2008 1:22:20	What I don't understand is that of all people Illmater would consider giving you such a harsh punishment for attacking one of his followers. This man is the frickin' god of forgiveness, the weak and the hopeless. He of all gods would understand the predicament of your character and his (perhaps poor) choice in the matter. And I would think that a mission to redeem yourself would not be a mission to kill, but a mission to show you how much good you can do in the world while shouldering other people's pains and hurts... but that's just me.
#11 etarnon Nov 23, 2008 3:55:39	I with black kitten on this one, ilmater might have you carry a heavy burden, other's pain, etc. Additionally, you are essentially playing a lone wolf to the party's gaggle of people that are willing to let it slide and sort of form a team of whatever competence. Seems to me like you feel in your gut "if there is no DM story, then we might as well do my personal PC's story." Compounded with a loose DM lets you do whatever you want style, combined and compounded further with arguing players with no leadership. Yet, now you have a mission, kill 100 enemy minions. So that's your mission. Lead the people of your party, and get the thing done. Your PCs soul hangs in the balance. Smoking clerics to expedite your evac from hell, while they are saving people is bad mojo...kinda like zapping the corpsman or another team member, because he can't load bodies onto the chopper fast enough for you, personally to get out of a hot LZ. But I digress. That, or decide you are not up for the challenge and gen up a new PC or quit that group over creative differences / mismatch. I suspect your problem lies in the fact that you feel more creative than the DM. Finally, run your own game is an option. I feel that you have set up the lone wolf, and now the situation you've personally created has come to roost, and the camera focus is on the whole party, not you, and though the DM wants you in the group, and is trying to (inexpertly it seems) propel you through your revenge subplot at warp speed, to "Get back to the party", you are wanting to go it alone as a tragic figure / loner. Agreed that making both plots line up is a good solution, so you have a few choices. Personally, i'd go for the party link-up, reduce the angst a bit, and start killing the 100, play it for a month, be generous to others in the group vis a vis story time, not split the party as much, and guide the DM with clear voice as to how you guys want to accomplish the killing of the 100. Maybe the DM doesn't know how to handle split parties and likes dungeon bash, more that backstory, etc. Good luck.