3.5 How to complement this group? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 How to complement this group?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cubsfan347
Jun 15, 2008 1:36:25 So my friend has decided to start playing D&D with me and my other friends, and I'm trying to figure out how he will best complement our characters. We're not the most optimized characters ever, but I'm just looking to have a group that can be effective and survive.

Right now, I'm playing a Psionic Shaper 5, eventually a Shaper 5/Thrallherd 5/Constructor 10. I'm mainly focusing on astral constructs, battlefield control, and debuffs. I've got a few utility and blasting powers thrown in, but that's not my main focus. I know a wizard or something would probably be much better at this, but I've wanted to try psionics for a long time.

My other friend is a Hexblade 2/Fighter 1/Abjurer 2, later a Hexblade 2/Fighter 1/Abjurer 4/Spellsword 10/ Abjurant Champion 3 I think. He's kind of serving as the party tank right now, but he will later most likely also evolve into the party melee damage dealer, as he is focusing mainly on buff and blasting spells.

I'm planning to have my constructs aid the Spellsword on the frontlines by tanking and flanking, as well as getting in some damage. I'm hoping to get either a Cleric or Druid thrall, so the party healer is covered.

We're starting my friend at level 5, and he already rolled his initial stats:

Strength:9
Dexterity:18
Constitution: 9
Intelligence:12
Wisdom:14
Charisma:10

I'm looking for advice for a character that suits his stats well, and in addition complements the group nicely. We have access to all core material, as well as Complete Warrior, Complete Mage, and possibly anything on the WotC website (I just have to run it by the DM). Thanks! (And sorry for the long post)
#2
wraithstrike
Jun 15, 2008 1:45:49 My group rolls the stats, chooses the class in either order and then put the stats to the corresponding ability score, but if you have to place the stats first, and those are your stats then I would suggest a rogue. To be more specific an archery based rogue because with a con of nine you dont want to be up front, and since you dont seem to have a skills guy in the group so it should fit pretty well.
#3
runestar
Jun 15, 2008 2:04:22 With those stats? I think druid. Focus on archery (take ranged feats), use your animal companion, summons and spells not reliant on saves to help out in combat. Maybe go necropolitan at 5th lv to do away with that crap con score.

Your dex is a bit on the low side, but nothing you cannot work around with a periapt of wisdom.

Warlock may be another alternative (use invocations without saves).
#4
Zherog
Jun 15, 2008 9:39:05 I'll second the suggestion of rogue, assuming the stats can't be rearranged.

But... why can't the stats be rearranged? Is that some sort of house rule or something? Typically, you roll/figure out stats, then assign as you like.

Another question: Since he's starting at 5th level, I assume he'll be getting a +1 to an ability score? If so, I strongly recommend putting it in Con.

Back to rogue. I wouldn't go ranged, only because it's more difficult to get sneak attack with a ranged attack. Assuming the stats stay the same, you'll have 9 skill points per level (10 if you're a human). Here's the skills I'd take:

Spot
Listen
Tumble
Use Magic Device
Hide
Move Silently
Search
Open Lock
Disable Device
Balance (if human)

Use Magic Device gives your group access to healing wands, and gives your friend access to any other wand, staff, scroll, etc that interests him -- attacks, buffs, whatever.

If you go warlock (another good suggestion), you still have access to Use Magic Device, and all the gooey goodness it allows.
#5
wraithstrike
Jun 15, 2008 10:02:05
I'll second the suggestion of rogue, assuming the stats can't be rearranged.

But... why can't the stats be rearranged? Is that some sort of house rule or something? Typically, you roll/figure out stats, then assign as you like.

Another question: Since he's starting at 5th level, I assume he'll be getting a +1 to an ability score? If so, I strongly recommend putting it in Con.

Back to rogue. I wouldn't go ranged, only because it's more difficult to get sneak attack with a ranged attack. Assuming the stats stay the same, you'll have 9 skill points per level (10 if you're a human). Here's the skills I'd take:

Spot
Listen
Tumble
Use Magic Device
Hide
Move Silently
Search
Open Lock
Disable Device
Balance (if human)

Use Magic Device gives your group access to healing wands, and gives your friend access to any other wand, staff, scroll, etc that interests him -- attacks, buffs, whatever.

If you go warlock (another good suggestion), you still have access to Use Magic Device, and all the gooey goodness it allows.

I know it is harder to get SA from ranged, but he has a caster and melee guy to handle combat. Rogues dont have good AC, and if you are going to be up front you should have decent AC and decent con. With d6 hit points and a -1 or even 0 con modifier you are one full attack away from dying. He might be able to get away with it at level 5, but in about 3 more levels when monsters get that 2nd attack and/or they are facing monsters that have multiple attacks up close is not the place to be.

Scout would be another suggestion. You don't need any condition to attack other than to move 10 feet. You could also multiclass into a ranger and take the swift hunter feat.
When you get to a high enough level take improved manyshot, which allows skirmish damage for every arrow unlike regular manyshot.
#6
Zherog
Jun 15, 2008 10:04:54
I know it is harder to get SA from ranged, but he has a caster and melee guy to handle combat. Rogues dont have good AC, and if you are going to be up front you should have decent AC and decent con. With d6 hit points and a -1 or even 0 con modifier you are one full attack away from dying. He might be able to get away with it at level 5, but in about 3 more levels when monsters get that 2nd attack and/or they are facing monsters that have multiple attacks up close is not the place to be.

I'm well aware of all of that. I still think, as a general rule of thumb, melee rogues are better because of the ease with which you can get sneak attack.

However... if you want to go the ranged route, you'll want levels in Invisible Blade and Master Thrower (both in Complete Warrior, I believe). If the casters can use more spells/powers that make targets sneak attackable (paralysis, stun, etc), it can definitely be viable.
#7
wraithstrike
Jun 15, 2008 10:09:50
I'm well aware of all of that. I still think, as a general rule of thumb, melee rogues are better because of the ease with which you can get sneak attack.

However... if you want to go the ranged route, you'll want levels in Invisible Blade and Master Thrower (both in Complete Warrior, I believe). If the casters can use more spells/powers that make targets sneak attackable (paralysis, stun, etc), it can definitely be viable.

Master thrower would be nice, but how does invisible blade help ranged attacks?
#8
cubsfan347
Jun 15, 2008 13:20:49 Yeah, about the stats...

My DM has a house rule that you roll for stats, and then you build your character around the stats without rearranging them.

I'm liking the idea of a druid, ranger, or rogue-like character. Ranger, master thrower, and invisible blade sounds kinda interesting, but I'm still open to some other ideas.
#9
Zherog
Jun 15, 2008 19:42:18
Master thrower would be nice, but how does invisible blade help ranged attacks?

I'd have to re-read the class, but I was going from memory. The problem with the memory, I suppose, is that the it was built up around my wife's character who used both of those classes. However, that class was a hybrid of twf and throwing daggers.
#10
kelvinaw273
Jun 17, 2008 11:40:49 I would go rogue or scout, definitely. He has the dex for it, and you lack a skills monkey.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cubsfan347 Jun 15, 2008 1:36:25	So my friend has decided to start playing D&D with me and my other friends, and I'm trying to figure out how he will best complement our characters. We're not the most optimized characters ever, but I'm just looking to have a group that can be effective and survive. Right now, I'm playing a Psionic Shaper 5, eventually a Shaper 5/Thrallherd 5/Constructor 10. I'm mainly focusing on astral constructs, battlefield control, and debuffs. I've got a few utility and blasting powers thrown in, but that's not my main focus. I know a wizard or something would probably be much better at this, but I've wanted to try psionics for a long time. My other friend is a Hexblade 2/Fighter 1/Abjurer 2, later a Hexblade 2/Fighter 1/Abjurer 4/Spellsword 10/ Abjurant Champion 3 I think. He's kind of serving as the party tank right now, but he will later most likely also evolve into the party melee damage dealer, as he is focusing mainly on buff and blasting spells. I'm planning to have my constructs aid the Spellsword on the frontlines by tanking and flanking, as well as getting in some damage. I'm hoping to get either a Cleric or Druid thrall, so the party healer is covered. We're starting my friend at level 5, and he already rolled his initial stats: Strength:9 Dexterity:18 Constitution: 9 Intelligence:12 Wisdom:14 Charisma:10 I'm looking for advice for a character that suits his stats well, and in addition complements the group nicely. We have access to all core material, as well as Complete Warrior, Complete Mage, and possibly anything on the WotC website (I just have to run it by the DM). Thanks! (And sorry for the long post)
#2 wraithstrike Jun 15, 2008 1:45:49	My group rolls the stats, chooses the class in either order and then put the stats to the corresponding ability score, but if you have to place the stats first, and those are your stats then I would suggest a rogue. To be more specific an archery based rogue because with a con of nine you dont want to be up front, and since you dont seem to have a skills guy in the group so it should fit pretty well.
#3 runestar Jun 15, 2008 2:04:22	With those stats? I think druid. Focus on archery (take ranged feats), use your animal companion, summons and spells not reliant on saves to help out in combat. Maybe go necropolitan at 5th lv to do away with that crap con score. Your dex is a bit on the low side, but nothing you cannot work around with a periapt of wisdom. Warlock may be another alternative (use invocations without saves).
#4 Zherog Jun 15, 2008 9:39:05	I'll second the suggestion of rogue, assuming the stats can't be rearranged. But... why can't the stats be rearranged? Is that some sort of house rule or something? Typically, you roll/figure out stats, then assign as you like. Another question: Since he's starting at 5th level, I assume he'll be getting a +1 to an ability score? If so, I strongly recommend putting it in Con. Back to rogue. I wouldn't go ranged, only because it's more difficult to get sneak attack with a ranged attack. Assuming the stats stay the same, you'll have 9 skill points per level (10 if you're a human). Here's the skills I'd take: Spot Listen Tumble Use Magic Device Hide Move Silently Search Open Lock Disable Device Balance (if human) Use Magic Device gives your group access to healing wands, and gives your friend access to any other wand, staff, scroll, etc that interests him -- attacks, buffs, whatever. If you go warlock (another good suggestion), you still have access to Use Magic Device, and all the gooey goodness it allows.
#5 wraithstrike Jun 15, 2008 10:02:05	I'll second the suggestion of rogue, assuming the stats can't be rearranged. But... why can't the stats be rearranged? Is that some sort of house rule or something? Typically, you roll/figure out stats, then assign as you like. Another question: Since he's starting at 5th level, I assume he'll be getting a +1 to an ability score? If so, I strongly recommend putting it in Con. Back to rogue. I wouldn't go ranged, only because it's more difficult to get sneak attack with a ranged attack. Assuming the stats stay the same, you'll have 9 skill points per level (10 if you're a human). Here's the skills I'd take: Spot Listen Tumble Use Magic Device Hide Move Silently Search Open Lock Disable Device Balance (if human) Use Magic Device gives your group access to healing wands, and gives your friend access to any other wand, staff, scroll, etc that interests him -- attacks, buffs, whatever. If you go warlock (another good suggestion), you still have access to Use Magic Device, and all the gooey goodness it allows. I know it is harder to get SA from ranged, but he has a caster and melee guy to handle combat. Rogues dont have good AC, and if you are going to be up front you should have decent AC and decent con. With d6 hit points and a -1 or even 0 con modifier you are one full attack away from dying. He might be able to get away with it at level 5, but in about 3 more levels when monsters get that 2nd attack and/or they are facing monsters that have multiple attacks up close is not the place to be. Scout would be another suggestion. You don't need any condition to attack other than to move 10 feet. You could also multiclass into a ranger and take the swift hunter feat. When you get to a high enough level take improved manyshot, which allows skirmish damage for every arrow unlike regular manyshot.
#6 Zherog Jun 15, 2008 10:04:54	I know it is harder to get SA from ranged, but he has a caster and melee guy to handle combat. Rogues dont have good AC, and if you are going to be up front you should have decent AC and decent con. With d6 hit points and a -1 or even 0 con modifier you are one full attack away from dying. He might be able to get away with it at level 5, but in about 3 more levels when monsters get that 2nd attack and/or they are facing monsters that have multiple attacks up close is not the place to be. I'm well aware of all of that. I still think, as a general rule of thumb, melee rogues are better because of the ease with which you can get sneak attack. However... if you want to go the ranged route, you'll want levels in Invisible Blade and Master Thrower (both in Complete Warrior, I believe). If the casters can use more spells/powers that make targets sneak attackable (paralysis, stun, etc), it can definitely be viable.
#7 wraithstrike Jun 15, 2008 10:09:50	I'm well aware of all of that. I still think, as a general rule of thumb, melee rogues are better because of the ease with which you can get sneak attack. However... if you want to go the ranged route, you'll want levels in Invisible Blade and Master Thrower (both in Complete Warrior, I believe). If the casters can use more spells/powers that make targets sneak attackable (paralysis, stun, etc), it can definitely be viable. Master thrower would be nice, but how does invisible blade help ranged attacks?
#8 cubsfan347 Jun 15, 2008 13:20:49	Yeah, about the stats... My DM has a house rule that you roll for stats, and then you build your character around the stats without rearranging them. I'm liking the idea of a druid, ranger, or rogue-like character. Ranger, master thrower, and invisible blade sounds kinda interesting, but I'm still open to some other ideas.
#9 Zherog Jun 15, 2008 19:42:18	Master thrower would be nice, but how does invisible blade help ranged attacks? I'd have to re-read the class, but I was going from memory. The problem with the memory, I suppose, is that the it was built up around my wife's character who used both of those classes. However, that class was a hybrid of twf and throwing daggers.
#10 kelvinaw273 Jun 17, 2008 11:40:49	I would go rogue or scout, definitely. He has the dex for it, and you lack a skills monkey.