3.5 Pounce Ability - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 Pounce Ability

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bobotheguy
Apr 14, 2009 0:15:43 Hello there,

I know there are various creatures that have the ability Pounce, which allows them to take a full-attack action in a round they charge their opponent. Is there some way to give this to a PC, whether it be through Prestige Class, Race, Feat, or Class ability? We are plaing a Gestalt Campaign, and I am looking to maximize a fighter-monk with Trip/Disarm/Grapple (etc.)

Thanks,

Bobo
#2
Crimson_Concerto
Apr 14, 2009 0:28:35 If you have Complete Champion, take a look at the variant Barbarian. With it, you can obtain Pounce with just a single level dip into the Barbarian class. :D
#3
Novacat
Apr 14, 2009 0:34:39
If you have Complete Champion, take a look at the variant Barbarian. With it, you can obtain Pounce with just a single level dip into the Barbarian class. :D

While that's the easiest and most horribly broken way to do it, there's also a (fairly high level) Psychic Warrior power that grants it.

A Druid can Wild Shape into a creature with Pounce, or a Wizard can use any number of Shapeshifting spells to do the same.

There is a feat (I forget where) called Two Weapon Pounce that is almost kinda as good as the actual Pounce ability, but not really.
#4
the_shaman
Apr 14, 2009 0:43:00 It's a second level psychic warrior power, and iirc a second level druid/ranger spell. Also, I think several classes (base and prestige, apart from the Lion Totem Barb) allow it - off the top of my head I can think of the Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures and the Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium. Oh, there are barbarian feats that allow you pounce with a single light weapon in Unapproachable East and iirc Shining South.
#5
bobotheguy
Apr 14, 2009 0:46:15 Thanks for the fast response guys. Its been a great help

Bobo
#6
Grumman
Apr 14, 2009 0:48:01 There's also a maneuver in Tome of Battle called Pouncing Charge or something similar. Going Warblade/Monk instead of Fighter/Monk might be an option.
#7
Crimson_Concerto
Apr 14, 2009 0:51:56
While that's the easiest and most horribly broken way to do it...

The OP is playing a Gestalt game. 'Nuff Said... :P

EDIT: That being said, the Warblade suggestion above isn't a bad idea at all. Though that does make you ridiculously multiple-attribute dependent, so might I suggest instead that you replace your Monk levels with Swordsage levels? Swordsages also have access to that school of maneuvers. Fighter/Swordsage instead of Warblade/Monk?
#8
Novacat
Apr 14, 2009 0:56:42 As a BBEG for one of my past campaigns, I made a gestalt Fighter/Psychic Warrior who, while buffed up, could charge and get 8 attacks per round, dealing over 100 damage per hit. And holy hell was that a hard NPC to make. At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder.

Turns out the Wyvern he rode didn't have the best saves, and it got turned into a bunny, so he had to retreat, since his whole set-up was optimized for mounted combat.
#9
Crimson_Concerto
Apr 14, 2009 1:02:31
At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder.

I'm not sure that kosher...
If two gestalted classes both get the same class feature, aren't you only supposed to take the better of the two progressions? Meaning that a Gestalt Fighter//PsyWarriors would gain bonus feats at the rate of the Fighter half?
#10
eldritch_lord
Apr 14, 2009 2:06:57
I'm not sure that kosher...
If two gestalted classes both get the same class feature, aren't you only supposed to take the better of the two progressions? Meaning that a Gestalt Fighter//PsyWarriors would gain bonus feats at the rate of the Fighter half?

You get the better of something at each level. Since the fighter is every 2 levels and the psychic warrior is every third, he'll get 14 bonus feats (11 fighter plus 5th, 11th, 17th psywar). That plus the 7 regular are 21.
#11
Novacat
Apr 14, 2009 2:27:50 Except that the Fighter has different bonus feats than the Psychic Warrior. They're listed the same in the class progression tables, but they're actually different class features.
#12
eldritch_lord
Apr 14, 2009 12:58:30
Except that the Fighter has different bonus feats than the Psychic Warrior. They're listed the same in the class progression tables, but they're actually different class features.

They are different class features, but I'm saying that assuming you consider "Bonus Feat" a class feature, you can still get the 21 necessary feats with the gestalt rules. I probably should have made that more clear.
#13
innabinder
Apr 14, 2009 20:56:13 From Lists of Stuff:

Pounce - aka: full attack on a charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Stormwind (link)
The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks
(by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin)

NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE.

Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used.

1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East)
1) Lion Totem Barbarian, class variant, Complete Champion
1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South)
2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA)
4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook)
5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 2th level ranger spell, Spell Compendium)
5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III)
6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine), only after using wildshape, see text
6) Bestial charge, feat, Complete Champion
7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities)
7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation)
8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.)
8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS)
10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron)
11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures)
11) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds)
13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine)
17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).)
17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat)
21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon)

Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves).

Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters.

With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible.

Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging):
Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others)
Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW)
Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH)
Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV)
Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE), ecl 11
Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South)
Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV)
Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH)
Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD)

10) Crinty Shadow Maurauder 5 (shadow pounce) - Shining South (Forgotten Realms)
11) Wildrunner 6 (primal scream: pounce) - Races of the Wild
11) Waverider 6, Savage Species, full mounted attack when mount moves more than 5 feet
12) Ashworm Dragon 7, Sandstorm, full mounted attack when mount moves more than 5 feet, but not on a charge
15) Blade of Orien 10, Eberron: Dragonmarked, full attack after dimension leap

Sphinx Claws, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum, natural weapons only
Chupoclops, vestige, ecl 12, Tome of Magic
Pouncing Charge, Tiger Claw maneuver, Tome of Battle
#14
tylara67
Apr 15, 2009 13:19:06
As a BBEG for one of my past campaigns, I made a gestalt Fighter/Psychic Warrior who, while buffed up, could charge and get 8 attacks per round, dealing over 100 damage per hit. And holy hell was that a hard NPC to make. At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder.

Turns out the Wyvern he rode didn't have the best saves, and it got turned into a bunny, so he had to retreat, since his whole set-up was optimized for mounted combat.

I made a weretiger monk/souleater BBEG once whose pounce gave 14 negative levels every time he did it. BoVD had some seriously broken

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bobotheguy Apr 14, 2009 0:15:43	Hello there, I know there are various creatures that have the ability Pounce, which allows them to take a full-attack action in a round they charge their opponent. Is there some way to give this to a PC, whether it be through Prestige Class, Race, Feat, or Class ability? We are plaing a Gestalt Campaign, and I am looking to maximize a fighter-monk with Trip/Disarm/Grapple (etc.) Thanks, Bobo
#2 Crimson_Concerto Apr 14, 2009 0:28:35	If you have Complete Champion, take a look at the variant Barbarian. With it, you can obtain Pounce with just a single level dip into the Barbarian class. :D
#3 Novacat Apr 14, 2009 0:34:39	If you have Complete Champion, take a look at the variant Barbarian. With it, you can obtain Pounce with just a single level dip into the Barbarian class. :D While that's the easiest and most horribly broken way to do it, there's also a (fairly high level) Psychic Warrior power that grants it. A Druid can Wild Shape into a creature with Pounce, or a Wizard can use any number of Shapeshifting spells to do the same. There is a feat (I forget where) called Two Weapon Pounce that is almost kinda as good as the actual Pounce ability, but not really.
#4 the_shaman Apr 14, 2009 0:43:00	It's a second level psychic warrior power, and iirc a second level druid/ranger spell. Also, I think several classes (base and prestige, apart from the Lion Totem Barb) allow it - off the top of my head I can think of the Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures and the Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium. Oh, there are barbarian feats that allow you pounce with a single light weapon in Unapproachable East and iirc Shining South.
#5 bobotheguy Apr 14, 2009 0:46:15	Thanks for the fast response guys. Its been a great help Bobo
#6 Grumman Apr 14, 2009 0:48:01	There's also a maneuver in Tome of Battle called Pouncing Charge or something similar. Going Warblade/Monk instead of Fighter/Monk might be an option.
#7 Crimson_Concerto Apr 14, 2009 0:51:56	While that's the easiest and most horribly broken way to do it... The OP is playing a Gestalt game. 'Nuff Said... :P EDIT: That being said, the Warblade suggestion above isn't a bad idea at all. Though that does make you ridiculously multiple-attribute dependent, so might I suggest instead that you replace your Monk levels with Swordsage levels? Swordsages also have access to that school of maneuvers. Fighter/Swordsage instead of Warblade/Monk?
#8 Novacat Apr 14, 2009 0:56:42	As a BBEG for one of my past campaigns, I made a gestalt Fighter/Psychic Warrior who, while buffed up, could charge and get 8 attacks per round, dealing over 100 damage per hit. And holy hell was that a hard NPC to make. At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder. Turns out the Wyvern he rode didn't have the best saves, and it got turned into a bunny, so he had to retreat, since his whole set-up was optimized for mounted combat.
#9 Crimson_Concerto Apr 14, 2009 1:02:31	At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder. I'm not sure that kosher... If two gestalted classes both get the same class feature, aren't you only supposed to take the better of the two progressions? Meaning that a Gestalt Fighter//PsyWarriors would gain bonus feats at the rate of the Fighter half?
#10 eldritch_lord Apr 14, 2009 2:06:57	I'm not sure that kosher... If two gestalted classes both get the same class feature, aren't you only supposed to take the better of the two progressions? Meaning that a Gestalt Fighter//PsyWarriors would gain bonus feats at the rate of the Fighter half? You get the better of something at each level. Since the fighter is every 2 levels and the psychic warrior is every third, he'll get 14 bonus feats (11 fighter plus 5th, 11th, 17th psywar). That plus the 7 regular are 21.
#11 Novacat Apr 14, 2009 2:27:50	Except that the Fighter has different bonus feats than the Psychic Warrior. They're listed the same in the class progression tables, but they're actually different class features.
#12 eldritch_lord Apr 14, 2009 12:58:30	Except that the Fighter has different bonus feats than the Psychic Warrior. They're listed the same in the class progression tables, but they're actually different class features. They are different class features, but I'm saying that assuming you consider "Bonus Feat" a class feature, you can still get the 21 necessary feats with the gestalt rules. I probably should have made that more clear.
#13 innabinder Apr 14, 2009 20:56:13	From Lists of Stuff: Pounce - aka: full attack on a charge Quote: Originally Posted by Tempest Stormwind (link) The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks (by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin) NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE. Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used. 1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East) 1) Lion Totem Barbarian, class variant, Complete Champion 1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South) 2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA) 4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook) 5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 2th level ranger spell, Spell Compendium) 5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III) 6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine), only after using wildshape, see text 6) Bestial charge, feat, Complete Champion 7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities) 7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation) 8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.) 8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS) 10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron) 11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures) 11) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds) 13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine) 17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).) 17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat) 21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon) Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves). Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters. With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible. Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging): Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others) Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW) Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH) Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV) Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE), ecl 11 Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South) Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV) Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH) Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD) 10) Crinty Shadow Maurauder 5 (shadow pounce) - Shining South (Forgotten Realms) 11) Wildrunner 6 (primal scream: pounce) - Races of the Wild 11) Waverider 6, Savage Species, full mounted attack when mount moves more than 5 feet 12) Ashworm Dragon 7, Sandstorm, full mounted attack when mount moves more than 5 feet, but not on a charge 15) Blade of Orien 10, Eberron: Dragonmarked, full attack after dimension leap Sphinx Claws, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum, natural weapons only Chupoclops, vestige, ecl 12, Tome of Magic Pouncing Charge, Tiger Claw maneuver, Tome of Battle
#14 tylara67 Apr 15, 2009 13:19:06	As a BBEG for one of my past campaigns, I made a gestalt Fighter/Psychic Warrior who, while buffed up, could charge and get 8 attacks per round, dealing over 100 damage per hit. And holy hell was that a hard NPC to make. At level 16, he had 21 feats, including some that I threw in just to make one PC's life a little harder. Turns out the Wyvern he rode didn't have the best saves, and it got turned into a bunny, so he had to retreat, since his whole set-up was optimized for mounted combat. I made a weretiger monk/souleater BBEG once whose pounce gave 14 negative levels every time he did it. BoVD had some seriously broken