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| #1vecnanApr 20, 2010 22:47:25 | I created an artificer for our 3.5 scenario, and all is going well. I create magic items for my teammates at 75% of base price. Because of my artisan feats, It only costs me 37.5% to make them - so there is a 50% gold markup (not including experience costs - which are substantial) Anyway, as I get richer, it becomes more and more attractive for my entirely lawful-evil group to just off me and take all my goods. My question is - how do I protect my gold and my items? Some things to note: I am an 8th level human artificer and have ~45,000 gold We play with almost all the books except forgotten realms, unearthed arcana, and a few others. Eberron, magic compendium, complete arcana etc. is all acceptable. I can buy, in essence, anything in any of those books since we often go to "large cities" that offer exotic goods. We don't allow items that give feats. I have an item familiar (a ring) to help me with experience - it is crucial to protect this item. We take turns as DM - which makes things a little complicated. Ultimately "reasoning with the DM" will probably be difficult since the DM has a stake in this. When a DM is in play there is a sort of "democracy" if I was to do anything crazy (such as give the party a curse that never let them steal from one another). Ultimately I just want to stay alive, protect my item familiar, and keep my profits. I know there are items that, if taken from anyone other than myself scream and the such, but what are my best options? - Thanks |
| #2baldhermitApr 20, 2010 23:04:52 | So you're ripping off your teammates and you are afraid they'll return the favor ? Lose the markup, that ought to help. |
| #3vecnanApr 20, 2010 23:52:53 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? |
| #4sallaApr 20, 2010 23:53:38 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? That's kind of what 'team' means; you do things to help them out, they do things to help you out. |
| #5koukApr 20, 2010 23:57:44 | If your character wants to keep his profits, it is probably best to flee that group as soon as possible for his own safety. Otherwise: Invest. Invest in things that are not on your person and are not something that can just be "stolen" or claimed by someone else. Long term stuff with contracts and whatsits. Or, you could extend an olive branch, and not mark up the prices quite so much. Give them a "preferred customer" discount for their long term business (and nonviolence to this point). |
| #6vecnanApr 21, 2010 0:12:53 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? Let me clarify something If I were another class - they'd be paying 100% of the base price of items The fact that I'm an artificer and spent 3(!) feats (two artisan, and item familiar) allows them to get almost any magic item for 75% of base price, this is quite a step up The main reason I made the artificer is so that I would have enough money for things like my own magic items, homonculus, golems, that sort of thing. I didn't do it to be the team's free magic-item dispenser and more on "they do things to help you out", last round we played someone was an artificer and did the *Exact* same thing, i just happen to do it better this time around. At level 3 a rogue stole almost all the treasure and the characters were never informed. The rest of the part got around 300 gold that scenario. What I am doing is benefiting everyone, not hurting people. |
| #7sallaApr 21, 2010 0:14:44 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? *shrug* Then don't call them teammates, call them customers. When I played an artificer, I gladly made items for my teammates at cost. If it was going to cost me 350gp to make something, I 'charged' 350gp to make it. It made the team stronger and more capable, which was payment enough. |
| #8vecnanApr 21, 2010 0:15:57 | If your character wants to keep his profits, it is probably best to flee that group as soon as possible for his own safety. I consider 25% decrease of the base price a "preferred customer" discount the only true remedy would be if I reduced my profits to nil - which would completely defeat the purpose of my character in the first place - and I could have just been a druid or some such. The contract is a reasonably good idea. These have been the things I had in mind - Always create enough golems and homunculi, give them the command that if these 4 people attack me, to kill them immediately. There are also screaming attachments you can add to armor, which could be useful in a number of ways. I was looking for these sorts of suggestions, although I like the contracts idea although i'm not sure how it would directly benefit me (other than having that investment) |
| #9johnkretzerApr 21, 2010 0:20:46 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? Explain this to them out of game. If they still are going to misplay their alignment( because LE characters won't just kill people in their sleep to take their items)...then just have your character disappear roll up a new one...or just leave the game. If they can't respect your concept it is better not to play it in my opinion. Personaly this is a issue out of game more than in game...because if they all just start gunning for you...nothing you can do will stop them. |
| #10RyndarLockeApr 21, 2010 3:34:53 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? he's saving them 25% at a cost of his XP. In 3.5 If I had item creation feats I didn't make stuff for anyone but me. |
| #11chanter_houndApr 21, 2010 10:00:32 | Lucky for me, My artificer is only secretly rich. I collected a large amount of Adamantine weapons the DM placed in a room. I throw the money around without too much a worry. But I agree with ya Vecnan. When people normally make artificers, its not so they can just be a vending machine that craps magic items for the rest of the party. Often its because we want to be able to build things and make them. If we decide to give a party member an item, we'll give them an item. We won't have it taxed out of us for being in the party as some sort of fee. Yes, just handing out everything and never leveling up would make the rest of the party stronger... while the artificer who has spent all his exp and money on dispensing out items eventually starts becoming 2-3 levels behind the rest of the party, and broke as dirt. I'd gladly give them magical items when I feel like it. Last session I gave two people Knowstones, so they could cast more various spells. Didn't charge them a thing. However if one the party members comes up to me and wants a +2 longsword of wizz-o-naughts, then they are going to have to pay for it. |
| #12koukApr 21, 2010 10:44:51 | I don't know if you have the ability to periodically return to a certain location like a large city, but you might also set up some sort of business with a partner (or multiple partners). Primarily as an investor on your end, since you're pretty busy. When you stop by the main office and prove you're you, you can receive your share of profits which had been stored in in the form of some kind of bank account, escrow, or I suppose a big old vault. Alternately, they store extra raw materials, and you can claim those in lieu of cash for your profits. Hell, maybe you can get dedicated employees to eat XP costs for you in exchange for a safe salary, since you need your XP more for the "saving the world/destroying the world" or whatever it is you guys are doing as adventurers. That would require some more "immediate" profit potential worked out with your DM since you want access when you want access. Maybe an existing business was doing well but recently took a downturn, and your investment and expertise puts it right back to being profitable next quarter. |
| #13vecnanApr 21, 2010 11:47:42 | The entrepreneurial idea is actually pretty interesting from a plot point of view, as well as profit. i'm much more well aware of the options, though thanks for the input guys |
| #14oldguygamingApr 21, 2010 12:07:26 | You're evil. Do unto others before the others can do unto you. : ) |
| #15ravenharmApr 21, 2010 12:46:04 | what book is the artificer class? i have almost all of the 3.5 stuff minus eberron and cant seem to find it. |
| #16vecnanApr 21, 2010 13:09:25 | It's in Eberron Campaign Setting. There is additional information in Magic of Eberron, Races of Eberron and Player's Guide to Eberron (4 books total, I believe) The artificer basically is a master-crafter. He has "infusions" rather than spells, that allow him to infuse items or constructs (temporarily imbue a weapon with Bane or Keen, increase the AC of armor, repair constructs, give a belt the Bull Strength ability, etc). Later, he can also craft homunculus and golems. For basic information on the Eberron artificer go here: Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) Wizard Forum Handbook (very informative): community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...(rough_draft) Artificer Infusion Summaries: www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Inde... |
| #17DragoncatApr 21, 2010 13:16:57 | There's no $ in team. If they are customers, then yes, they are evil beings who might decide to shuffle you out of your mortal coil for your wealth. That's life in an evil party. Now, you could just make them at cost; that will remove the excess wealth which might tempt them, AND result in a happier party. In turn, you just need to insist you get your share of treasure for future crafting purposes. |
| #18vecnanApr 21, 2010 13:28:34 | People keep mentioned sell for cost - but what's the gold cost of my spent experience and three feats? I could easily open a shop and sell the items for 100% of the base price after hiring clerks and whatnot to sell my goods I feel as though people don't realize that it costs a lot of experience to craft the better magic items. To craft a 20,000g item costs 800 experience. Should I give this experience away for no profit? That makes no sense at all. I am giving them a 20,000g item for 15,000g, you're asking for me to give it to them for 7500 and take the experience hit? That sounds a bit absurd. If you ask me, the cost of this experience and the feats is the markup. They're getting a deal any way you cut it - they're just unhappy that my character build leads me to having disproportionately more gold. |
| #19MalakLightfootApr 21, 2010 14:27:55 | People keep mentioned sell for cost - but what's the gold cost of my spent experience and three feats? I could easily open a shop and sell the items for 100% of the base price after hiring clerks and whatnot to sell my goods Then do so. Part of the reason your party is unhappy is that a large portion of your wealth is their money. The fact that you are creating items and selling them to the party for less than it would cost them to buy otherwise is irrelevant. If you weren't there, they would be getting the items in some other manner. Your coffers are fat with their money, and this is what offends them. I feel as though people don't realize that it costs a lot of experience to craft the better magic items. To craft a 20,000g item costs 800 experience. Should I give this experience away for no profit? That makes no sense at all. I am giving them a 20,000g item for 15,000g, you're asking for me to give it to them for 7500 and take the experience hit? That sounds a bit absurd. Then work out with them what you feel a reasonable cost for your experience spent is. They may feel that you are ripping them off because they don't understand the XP cost (and if your slower advancement hasn't made any difference to your effectiveness while you are on adventure, then the XP cost is not hurting you as much as you are claiming it does). If you and the players can't agree on prices then stop selling to the players (all players must agree to the new compromise pricing, if one does not, they will feel more alienated and resentful if you sell to everyone but them) and work out your entreprenurial ideas with the DM. Once you and the party agree how much your XP cost is worth in gold, then, no, you should not be making profit off of them. You should be charging them base cost + agreed upon XP to gold conversion. They are your adventuring companions and your friends. Charging them a 100% markup and laughing all the way to the bank with their money is making them feel like you are taking advantage of them. If you ask me, the cost of this experience and the feats is the markup. They're getting a deal any way you cut it - they're just unhappy that my character build leads me to having disproportionately more gold. It's not just that you have disproportionately more gold than them, it is the fact that the reason you have more gold than them is because a large portion of that extra gold used to be theirs. I am sure the resentment would be much less if the extra gold came from a campaign based entreprenurial venture that didn't involve their money at all. In their eyes, the markup you are handing them is roughly equivalent to having a thief in the party who pockets extra shares of the treasure for himself and then tells the party that he found much less than he really did. Talk to the other players out of character. Let them know that you have noticed that they seem to resent your character, that you have no desire to take part in the inevitable party PVP that will result from this resentment, and work out something that everyone can agree is fair for your "expenses." Let them know that if you all can't agree on a XP / gold ratio that you will stop making items and selling them to the party. Sticking to your guns the way you are is obviously not the solution, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. |
| #20KaganfindelApr 21, 2010 14:31:14 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? Had you spent those three feats on being a better combatant, the party would have profited from it. Bottom line: you put your life in the hands of evil men, and then made yourself an attractive target to all of them at once. It doesn't matter if you splitting the difference your three feat investment makes with them is fair or not. Might makes right as far as they're concerned, and right now you have the majority of the wealth and the minority of the might. You cannot maintain this state of affairs. |
| #21vecnanApr 21, 2010 14:40:57 | @MalakLightfoot Your arguments are very reasonable - and I admit that. However I feel as though you may misunderstand the situation. I do not think it is the case that they are particularly upset that I have their money. In a previous game, we had a druid that had taken feats in craft magic arms and armor and craft wondrous items. He charged similar prices and there was not much of a problem. He died shortly after and he never had the chance to really "get rich". Seeing the potential in this, I decided to become an artificer and I have been doing well for myself, but it wasn't until this particular level that the gap widened to an impressive maw. I am *not* price gouging. If I were, they could easily just get items from elsewhere. Ultimately, I have a fixed amount of extra experience and if I charged any less, it wouldn't be worth it - period. I will share with you the exact communication that occurred. After winning, we go back to town, people ask me to craft certain items, I tell them how much time it will take. then: Friend1: "So how much money do you have now?" Me: "A good amount" Friend2: "Probably more than a scenario worth of treasure" Me: "Perhaps" Friend1: "OOC, it might be worthwhile to just off him and take his gold and magic items, even sold for half it's probably quite a bit" Me: "Well you wouldn't have any future cut in prices" Friend2: "It might still be worth it" They just want my money, and I just want to protect myself |
| #22vecnanApr 21, 2010 14:49:07 | so you're saying I should spend my experience on my teammates with no profit? To be honest, I have enough money to craft a horde of golems and homunculi. I am pretty sure that the force would be strong enough to destroy the entire party and I have means of protecting myself. Also, one of the teammates has grown up with me and would likely not betray me. However, I don't think it would be a good idea to attack them. |
| #23DragoncatApr 21, 2010 14:58:36 | To craft a 20,000g item costs 800 experience. Should I give this experience away for no profit? Just so you know, there's an option rule presented in the Rules of the Game articles here that allows cooperative creation, wherein different individuals may pay different parts of the cost. This means that the experience price could come from the individual who is requesting the item, not from the artificier. Might make things much easier. |
| #24chanter_houndApr 21, 2010 15:23:43 | What many people on the forums arn't even realizing is its not just about the exp cost. What if we had a time warp and you choose not to make an artificer. How much money would everyone have spent to get thier items they greedily grasp in thier dirty begger hands? How many of the those items would they not have been able to have gotten? I understand your plight pretty much. My artificer is also built a little more for crafting than he is for combat. I spent most of the game poor as dirt, and incapable of making even the simpiliest of items. Even though our party could have really used some scrolls of cure light and such. |
| #25vecnanApr 21, 2010 15:25:37 | To craft a 20,000g item costs 800 experience. Should I give this experience away for no profit? This is a great find - many thanks for sharing @chanterhound most of the times that we play, we roll random treasure and end up with far below the average "wealth gain" for that level. It's often around half of the average - maybe we're unlucky or something. I was tired of barely having enough to buy *anything*, so i made the artificer to improve the party's and my own effective wealth gain |
| #26chanter_houndApr 21, 2010 15:28:40 | So basically what you are saying is normally, no one would have gotten much of anything if it wasn't for you. Which means it would be really funny if they kill you, and have to fight a rust monster shortly after. |
| #27vecnanApr 21, 2010 15:31:04 | So basically what you are saying is normally, no one would have gotten much of anything if it wasn't for you. well, yes, pretty much just so you know the sort of people I play with - my friend was a druid (our only healer), and he lent 10k gold to a party member for 10% interest (per scenario). the druid was down and only that friend chad a potion. He refused to heal him, so the druid died, but he had no more debt. these guys are pretty treasure hungry |
| #28KaganfindelApr 21, 2010 15:32:09 | If you can make killing you more trouble than it's worth, then do that. |
| #29vecnanApr 21, 2010 15:34:29 |
Well yeah - I'm trying to think of methods. could i make a medium golem instead of a large one? for easier movement, two large buddies are difficult to move around. I could just command them to attack any of the other three party members if they attack me, or something |
| #30chanter_houndApr 21, 2010 15:34:32 | Ooo Ooo! I know! Make some sort of device that will create extra dimensional space with in itself. Like putting a bag of holding inside a portable hole. They kill you.. Everything in like a 20 mile radius is suddenly sucked into a black hole. |
| #31ravenharmApr 21, 2010 16:08:32 | mostly because im not familiar with eberron but, are magic items so plentiful in eberron that you can buy them at any place in the cities? since your making magic items are you dispersing them evenly throughout the party? im thinking a party bank where it becomes a pot everyone can pull from would be the best option for your players. also don't be stingy with giving out items, clerics heal, wizards throw spells, fighters soak damage. from what i gather from your class you make items. wizards/clerics/druids also lose some xp with scrolls and such... so make items. if you make yourself valueable to the party rather then hoarding loot then your won't be a gold dropping piniata =D |
| #32chanter_houndApr 21, 2010 16:14:25 | mostly because im not familiar with eberron but, are magic items so plentiful in eberron that you can buy them at any place in the cities? Just because he is playing an artificer doesn't mean he is in ebberon.
While clerics are capable of healing and fighters capable of soaking up damage, that doesn't inturn make an artificer a walking vending machine.
He's already been valuable to the party. The party, from what he has said, wouldn't have even half the stuff they have now if it wasn't for him. He is basically the golden goose. |
| #33vecnanApr 21, 2010 16:14:57 | mostly because im not familiar with eberron but, are magic items so plentiful in eberron that you can buy them at any place in the cities? Artificer infusion components tend to be very pricy. We also spend money on scrolls and wands. An artificer is just as expensive, if not more expensive, to maintain than a wizard or a cleric. Everyone gets their fair share of loot, there's no hoarding going on. Even further, i make magic items available to them below base price. I spend my own gold for the team's cure light wounds/cure moderate wounds wands. There is absolutely no loss to them - but rather a very large gain. However, this is largely off topic. I don't care if I'm spending marginally more than a wizard. The main thing I am concerned with is protecting myself and my profitseeking oppurtunities. the gears are turning in my head, and this is the solution i've come to, among other things. My flesh golem will protect me, that's easy enough. What I'll do is craft items for my party at, say, half price BUT they have to spend their own experience. I then use the rest of my experience to offer items in my Shop (located in a large merchant-holy city called Enoch, 10% increase to all prices, but also 10% increase to taxes, wages, rent, etc) and I will sell these items somewhere between 100 and 110% of base price. My homunculi will make the items in my shop while I am away, I will hire clerks, laborers, and maids to maintain the business. I will also hire armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, and other skilled labor to make and sell mundane items. The reduced price gives my party incentive to keep me around, since they would have to take craft feats to even match my price. My store and its contents will be protected and unaccessible. This way, I think almost everyone is made better off. The MAIN problem with this is cooperative creation is an unofficial option, and is in none of the DnD canon. |
| #34koukApr 21, 2010 18:44:27 | If your group stopped clinging to random loot generation, they may feel less "pressed" for wealth. But it's possible you might need to step up your PR campaign a bit as well. Even if logically you are a huge asset as things are now, perception is nearly everything. What they perceive is that you are profiting off of group members, because it's easy enough to ignore that you are paying XP when you're not directly involved. If, for whatever reason, they feel they're being treated unfairly (some are possibly crazy anyhow) then the amount of cash you have on your person contains "their" amount, that they are just letting you hold for now. So, you are much more like a "State-Run Monopoly" to them, rather than a "Friendly Neighborhood Provider." They don't really have any options or control, and you're not even attempting to make them feel like valued customers. They have to feel like you're working for them, even though you're not, (and any time spent thinking about it rationally would hold that up). Emotions aren't rational though. I'm not an expert, but there are lots of simple concepts you can implement. Appearing to Care: Good customer service, smiling, eagerness to please them etc. In the context of D&D, this probably means more like your character roleplaying in an "entertaining" way during transactions. This way buying from you is not an inevitable chore of math, but a new or at least pleasant experience each time. Make Them Feel Smart: You present things in such a way that it feels like they're "beating the system" by shopping with you. Remind them how great your "store" is by implying that they are very smart shoppers to come to you. "Thank you for your purchase of this Magical Sword +4. You saved 20,000 gp today by shopping at Artificerware!" They didn't save anything, just like buying things on sale is still spending money. They just spent less than they otherwise might have -- but it's close enough to be believable. Special/Upcoming Offers: Your store is not like any other NPC shop. Your store is constantly striving to provide the best shopping experience and selection to your customers. It is dynamic. You are always looking out for new products that they might like, or show that you are working toward developing those products. Coming Soon: +5 weapon enchantments! Having things to look forward to with you also gives incentive to not kill you, at least not yet. Special Offers: Toss in near-meaningless trinkets or potions with big-ticket items (such that you still are profiting anyway). If they buy a new suit of armor, throw in some magical thingy that makes the armor more stealthy or protective for a time. If you are selling consumables, sometimes do "2 for the price of 1" events, or similar. Your losing a little bit of money on one of those small items is a "Loss Leader," which fosters their attachment to you and allows you to "get them in your store" more or less. It's an investment in the customer's loyalty, and also makes them feel like they're "beating the system." While they are buying those two potions from you, perhaps you might interest them in this other weapon oil as well, for the mere price of XX gp? Make Them Feel Special: "I don't normally do this for customers, but because of your continued patronage, I'll make a special allowance just for you." This part might not be doable now since you've already been selling things and don't want to reduce it any more, but even a small amount might help. Like "additional 2% off" or whatever, with a Preferred Adventurer card. Make Your Benefits Seem Infinite: You can make all sorts of meaningless statements that make things appear as if you're always going to support the customer and give them a special deal. For instance, warranties, return policies, etc. You might accept trade-ins to reduce the gp cost of new purchases. You should also mention that When You Retire, and go back to your business in Town X, you'll always be open for those guys for helping you get started, and they will have a permanent 5% discount. This is basically meaningless, because if your character actually "retires," then he's not going to be an adventurer any more. You likely will never actually "retire" anyway, you're far more likely to continue adventuring until the campaign ends, or to get eaten by some monster. If you happen to retire for real because you want to start a new character, well your new character has a special location to get his own magic gear from. However, the prospect of such a long-lasting future benefit might help dissuade them from killing you themselves. |
| #35koukApr 21, 2010 18:55:46 | Also, if any of them have plans to conquer a city or create their own evil empire, your having pledged your desire to support them in that endeavor and continue the discounts on a large scale to stock armories and maybe make golem soldiers, is a huge character incentive for that PC to keep you alive. It is likely also a meaningless statement, because that kind of thing either happens when the campaign is over, or not at all. |
| #36vecnanApr 21, 2010 19:46:05 | Thank you for the tips kouk They would certainly be difficult to diplom but i'll see what I can do I went over the shop idea with them and even with the 50% price, they think that the dm might make all other shops in town undercut my prices to be "competitive" they really don't like the idea of me having more money than them |
| #37koukApr 21, 2010 20:16:29 | I don't particularly "like" the idea of one other players having boatloads of money either :P But I'm trying to be helpful hehe. Like you said, it's disproportionate. They may feel they do "more" for the party in combat situations than your Artificer does, and are thus somehow worth more. It's mostly about feelings here. If the XP issue is resolved by them paying XP for their own items, you could then make items at cost and they should shut up. I imagine most of the group would jump at the chance to pay the XP costs for you. You've probably gotten a fair amount of return from your feats, and a continual stream of some kind of money from NPCs wouldn't reduce that. |
| #38ravenharmApr 21, 2010 20:48:27 | again i think im missing the purpose of an artificer, but no worries the opening poster found his own solution and all is good. =] |
| #39inaraiApr 21, 2010 21:24:05 | I have a suggestion: Skip the Gold to XP exchange rate. Instead, convert magic items into craft reserve. Tell the party members that you need an object bearing magic of sufficient strength in order to transfer the raw magical energy into the new one. They provide you with the neccasary components, including enough magic items to cover off the craft reserve via craft reserve. Handy use for vendor trash stuff - instead of selling low-value magic items, they let you use Retain Essence on them. ALTERNATIVELY, you can use the Pathfinder crafting rules, which basically just cuts the XP straight out. You'd have to talk to your DM about this, though. Option three is to negotiate a fair rate of exchange in character. Artificers are basically scientists studying the raw nature of magic. You can assume you somehow have the "magical essence" requirement quantified in character, I'd say, or you can come up with some other way to explain that you're losing something of value, and come up with a rate of exchange, and suggest that you can also transfer the energy from other magic items. THAT'S how you deal with it. Don't try to make it so that they get punished if they do come after you, make the long term benefit of having you around better than the short term benefit of taking you out and stealing your stuff - though it should be noted that such an action is decisively non-lawful. Above all, BE FAIR. The whole thing will go to pieces otherwise, and your character has the Int score to know this, so don't try to say your character would be trying to screw them out of the gold. |
| #40chaosturtleApr 21, 2010 22:03:18 | I'd agree with working out your PR skills...and in regards to your group, teamwork as a whole. It might be because you guys are always rotating dms but I'm getting a pretty big "every man for himself" vibe from the way you describe your group. The Pc's might be annoyed with the fact that you keep charging them and never seem to actually use/need the gold...if you want to make items for yourself that's fine, and asking PC's to chip in if you're going to make items is also fine in my book...but if you have tons more gold then they do because they're constantly giving you their money then I can see why they might be a little annoyed. Of course, this raises the question are they annoyed just because you have more, or because they actually need it? I mean, if you're making all their gear for them then that should cover the majority of any purchases they have to make...yeah, there might be the odd potion here and there and other small stuff, but nothing that would be too costly. Are the Pc's unable to get items they want because they can't afford them from you? Do the Pc's have some random goal like buying a church/airship/whatever that they need lots of gold for? If not, then I really don't see why they're getting all bent out of shape, that'd be like getting pissed off at a merchant after you purchased items from them because now they have more gold then you. Unless there's some giant dire need for the party to have gold then *shrugs* I wouldn't say you're doing anything wrong. But to be more on topic..you could try just hiding the gold from your party. If you're going to large cities all the time at least one of them must have a pretty decent banking system for all the big businesses in that city. Since you seem to have enough coin saved up you could just invest in your own little storage area if there aren't any banking systems in your game, then just load it up with traps. Yeah, your party might still be able to get through it without dying, but is it really worth the risk for them? |
| #41koukApr 21, 2010 22:15:29 | Yeah, your party might still be able to get through it without dying, but is it really worth the risk for them? His party was made up of adventurers. :p |
| #42vampire_batApr 21, 2010 22:32:50 | I think the best bet is to have them 'put themselves' into the item you're making for them, to tune it to them. They pay the xp costs. |
| #43vecnanApr 22, 2010 16:22:20 | a question for any artificer experts: I've read in multiple artificer threads that Quicken is a good feat to get because it synnergizes with the metamagic spell trigger artificer feat. For example, you could quicken a wand's spell by expending 5 charges and that spell is then a swift action. |
| #44deviknyteApr 25, 2010 21:28:30 | Your a 6th, I mean 8th level artificer? I think you should be able to take them all. Metamagic Spell Trigger is one of the best abilities in the game, and if your as rich as you say you are you should be able to strike them down. But here is another thing. If your party can't see you as a better asset alive, fudge them. If your party is the evil type that would kill you because your rich, than your group isn't mature enough to play evil. |
| #45skibo_the_firstApr 26, 2010 10:45:18 | THe point of the artificer is that he trades Xp in order to make magic items. He then sells or uses these items to improve his abilities. If his role was to supply the party with an unlimited number of magic items, the rules would be such that that party memeber would have to give up the Xp (Which i still think should be the way). Unfortunately there's nothing much you can do, if you buy a bunch of exprensive things, they can still kill you and take them. If you spend your money elsewhere, then what's the point in charging money? I'd say don't worry about it, don't make them anymore artifacts if they are getting peeved at your money because the more you make, the more powerful they become by comparions. |
| #46eazy_eApr 30, 2010 21:47:12 | I would kill you too. Or buy items from NPCs out of spite. It is a team game and you don't play as a team-mate. |
| #47chaosturtleMay 01, 2010 2:48:50 | I would kill you too. Or buy items from NPCs out of spite. It is a team game and you don't play as a team-mate. He plays perfectly fine as a team mate...he gives the PC's whatever they want at the cost of his own experience. Yeah, he charges them...but he charges them less then whatever the Pc's would normally pay...and in all honesty, what else requires massive amounts of gold besides equipment? As I said in my earlier post, its douchey if the PC's are struggling to pay for other stuff they need...but that really doesn't seem to be the case, it just seems like they're unhappy because the OP has more gold then them. I'd just ask them what they would buy if they had the gold...I'm guessing the answer would be item X, which the OP could make for cheaper...meaning if the PC's in fact bought all their equipment at full price, it'd take them even longer to be able to get to the point where they could buy item X, since they'd be struggling to buy all the items that came before that. If it got to the point where the OP stopped making items because the PC's were too poor to afford them, then yeah it would start hurting the party. Do you complain when the cleric dedicates spell slots to making himself better when he could instead be preparing buff/healing spells for everyone else? Do you complain when the fighter keeps his new +X sword when he could instead sell it and split the profit amongst the rest of the party so they could all purchase their own equipment? |
| #48koukMay 01, 2010 4:39:21 | Do you complain when the cleric dedicates spell slots to making himself better when he could instead be preparing buff/healing spells for everyone else? Do you complain when the fighter keeps his new +X sword when he could instead sell it and split the profit amongst the rest of the party so they could all purchase their own equipment? Sometimes I might, yeah :p It depends. The rest of your post was correct though as far as I'm concerned. Just, it may not "feel" that way. |
| #49tsukinousagiMay 01, 2010 10:21:10 | "Anyway, as I get richer, it becomes more and more attractive for my entirely lawful-evil group to just off me and take all my goods." Hmm picture me laughing at your plight. Lawful evil group. I would likely punish the group if they did NOT kill you and take your shyt. What part of evil have you had trouble understanding? I'd be inclined to punish you for not forcing them to pay full price. What part of evil have you had trouble understanding? I do get sick of hearing people wanting to play 'evil' when really all they wish is to be selfish and self centered which has nothing to do with any intelligent notion of real evil. |
| #50eazy_eMay 01, 2010 12:05:58 | Yea, LE is more like a group of Terrorists then 17 year olds who just want more toys then somebody else. |
| #51meegzMay 01, 2010 18:31:14 | I have never played a game where a large city does not have a VERY secure, and reliable banking system. Plus, various kinds of accounts can be made to give you a decent return on your money, with little to no risk, provided you leave it there for a long time. Thats what I would do, and then make it a point to be completely bragging about how good their security is and whatnot. And then I'd start charging them full price, with funds to be deposited in my personal account, for a couple sessions at least, and see how they felt about everything then. |
| #52eazy_eMay 01, 2010 21:04:13 | Are you not friends with the PCs? |
| #53chaosturtleMay 02, 2010 3:46:14 | "Anyway, as I get richer, it becomes more and more attractive for my entirely lawful-evil group to just off me and take all my goods." Because everyone knows that evil people are 100% selfless and the last thing on their minds is their own goals because they're so concerned with everyone elses {.} A lawful evil character wouldn't kill someone to steal from them...that's not exactly very lawful. I'd think the most logical action a lawful evil character would take is start charging for whatever services they offer...a LE fighter type would charge to protect the artificer, a cleric to cure them etc. |
| #54koukMay 02, 2010 5:03:22 | It's not breaking the law if you don't get caught :P Who's to say a monster didn't just kill him while they were down in that dungeon... |
| #55koukMay 02, 2010 5:08:20 | To OP: I now recall that in 3.5 there were ways to have Contingency spells put on yourself, triggered when certain conditions were met. I don't remember what level it all was, but since you have money, you might look into having Teleportation Contingencies placed on you if your teammates are about to kill you. It will be tricky to set the trigger language to be useful and not just happen when you're caught in a "friendly" AoE you're aware of and that won't kill you. |
| #56IryMay 11, 2010 7:28:59 | Short Term Solution: Explain to them that your discount means they have 33% more equipment than they would otherwise have, and they should be damn happy about that. Tell them that their gold is fair compensation for all the experience you are losing, and anything you spend to improve your character makes the whole party better. Long Term Solution: Make them pay the experience cost, and make no profit. |