Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jage May 09, 2008 12:40:46	I've never done a point buy before (I know I'm sheltered!) anyway here is what I came up with for my Rogue:
#2 augurer May 09, 2008 13:04:53	Looks fine to me. I personally would want more skill points and a non-negative Charisma modifier, but it all depends what role you're aiming to fill. If you're not interested in social skills, an 8 CHA is fine. I generally like to have high ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Jump, Climb, Balance, Disable Device, Open Locks, Sleight of Hand, Spot and Listen. On top of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. With a 16 INT, you could have max ranks in the non-social skills. I don't understand why you need a "justification" for having a low Wisdom. That's intended to be the Rogue's "dump stat".
#3 Nathreet May 09, 2008 13:46:48	The int and wis are still above average, just not your main focus. When picking your rogue stats, you really need to figure out what you want to do with your character. If you want a melee focus (not just 2nd or 3rd priority), then you picked the wrong class. If you want a skillmonkey then you'll probably want a higher int for overcoming traps and for more skill points. If you want a stealthy rogue who can also tumble to anywhere on the battlefield, you need a high dex. This is also good for picking weak targets. But then you need a race with a good movement speed. Even if you're scouting it's not worth it to get a high wis (12 is fine). A high con, otoh, is always good for any class. Most new players don't know how to use their rogue so they end up as the party skillmonkey and weak, fragile fighter. Check out the rules descriptions for all the skills, especially hide, move silently and tumble. If you want to do other interesting things, take a good look at other appropriate skills too. For your starting equipment you should get 9000gp in gear, and no single item may exceed 2250gp in value. Unless your DM has other rules. I'd include a masterwork weapon, masterwork thief's tools and a +1 mithril shirt. If you're a skillmonkey I'd also get goggles of minute seeing. See http://www.d20srd.org/ for more info. Don't forget you get a +1 to any stat at level 4.
#4 jage May 09, 2008 14:28:49	I don't understand why you need a "justification" for having a low Wisdom. That's intended to be the Rogue's "dump stat". Well the character's background (which I apologize for being vague about)... if they weren't highly aware of their surroundings at all times growing up they would have been in a bad way.... a minatour in a china shop would have to have a high WIS and DEX to avoid breaking anything (kind of I know it's a bad analogy), so I'm letting backstory dictate my stats to some extent... I just don't want a total disconnect. Don't need CHA at all, and that fits with the backstory as well. How low would you suggest making the WIS? And I think I'm going to go skill monkey/respectible fighter, so I need to pump the WIS. Also I put the +1 for 4th on DEX... saves the 3 points to get from 17 to 18.
#5 drackthor May 09, 2008 14:32:29	Out of curiosity, if you're going Weapon Finesse, why put 6 points into Strength? Why not keep Str at a 10 and put some more into Dex or Int?
#6 augurer May 09, 2008 15:26:50	You could just have high Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive skills, and still have a low Wisdom. A low Wisdom doesn't necessarily mean oblivious of one's surroundings. It could mean poor application of knowledge - such as reaching incorrect conclusions, or jumping to conclusions with inadequate information; or a simple lack of "common sense". An 8 Wisdom is fine. I'm playing a 5th level Kalashtar Psychic Rogue in an Eberron campain with 12 STR, 16 DEX, 12 CON, 14 INT, 8 WIS, 12 CHA (28 point buy). My Will and Fort saves are awful, but you don't have to be good at everything.
#7 Nathreet May 09, 2008 20:04:49	The only skills you need are disable device, open lock, search and tumble. Might want to also get hide and move silently, as it'd be sacrilege for a rogue to ignore these. Just don't let the party talk you into scouting. If you want the 3 skills mentioned on top of that, then that'd put you at exactly 9 skills. Right at your limit. I'd talk with a party member about helping you flank. Your best way to melee sneak attack would be to tumble behind something and flank it. Read the tumble skill description for more info. If you're gonna be flanking targets that don't die in 1 or 2 hits, get two weapon fighting so you can get more hits with your full attack. If you're a human I'd get weapon focus for your 3rd feat. That way you get more hits all the time (both single and full attack).
#8 jage May 09, 2008 21:00:57	It could mean poor application of knowledge - such as reaching incorrect conclusions, or jumping to conclusions with inadequate information; or a simple lack of "common sense". Personally, that's the one thing that's very hard for me to play- it goes against my nature so much that I'm not sure if it wouldn't ruin the fun for me. Unless I used low wisdom to have an opinion about everything immediately, and maybe that would mask my OOC tendancy to be the same way... :D
#9 Nathreet May 09, 2008 21:12:03	A 12 wis is above average. Even an 8 is only a little below average. You don't have to play an absent-minded buffoon. Heck, I'm sure there are a lot of 8 wis ppl in these forums. jage, check your internet options or preferences. Now check your cookie settings. Make sure your cookies don't expire within less than 2 weeks (or every time you close your browser or etc.), or that'll erase your auto-login. Cookies are sometimes under "advanced settings". Or they might be under security settings.
#10 jage May 09, 2008 21:19:50	8? I think you're being generous. I'm sure more than a few rolled and got 3's... Also we're playing an undead campaign. Apart from sneak attack not working (in 3.5 anyway, it actually works on most undead under Pathfinder) what should I be concerned with facing the undead hoards as a rogue?
#11 Mad_Jack May 10, 2008 3:55:48	Also we're playing an undead campaign. Apart from sneak attack not working (in 3.5 anyway, it actually works on most undead under Pathfinder) what should I be concerned with facing the undead hoards as a rogue? Not so much with skels and zombies, but once you get into the higher undead, your Fort and Will saves are going to get a workout - for you specifically, you're getting a small bonus to each of them, so it won't be too bad, but a rogue's inability to SA and their low saves in the two things that undead usually require saves against are going to be your weak points. As far as saves, you're not doing too bad, but for the lesser undead I'd definitely suggest you buy a morningstar - it's the only d8 rogue weapon, and it does both piercing and bludgeoning damage. Even if you only use it once an adventure, it's still worth the trouble to carry it.