4 veteran-DMs abusing a rookie DM AAAh! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4 veteran-DMs abusing a rookie DM AAAh!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
charke
Aug 25, 2008 11:38:25 That's my gaming group right now. There are actually about seven players, but four are ex-DM's with boatloads of experience running under a rookie DM. That could be good or bad and unfortunately it's the latter.

I'm walking back into the group after some time away. All the Players have broken characters, and not just a little broken - sick, I didn't know those rules existed, broken. Each of the players is using rules they have banned in their own campaigns. One appears to be using ONLY rules he banned in his campaign. And the rookie DM threw them some extra stuff because they were complaining.

After our first fight I came as close to dying as is possible and the power-gamers did not even get hurt. The group dominated my character while I was out. When my character decided to leave the party because of how I'd been treated while unconcious, they pulled the dominated card out and waved it in my face. One player in particular monopolized the DM's time for three hours, then took the DM out of the room for a secret conversation for another hour.

That's my last game with them, at least under these circumstances.

The trouble is, these are all my friends. I don't want to hurt anyone, especially the rookie DM and suddenly the excuses for missing the games have started. That's hard comming from a guy who didn't miss a game for some odd six years straight (no serriously but I was the DM). It was a really good excuse, spending six hours moving furnature for another buddy who was moving - but next weeks excuse might just have to be the truth I suppose. Ug.

As an 18 year veteran of roleplaying its a combination of being tired of fighting to create a fair environment and the sheer hopelessness of trying to reign in 3 other veteran DMs unappologetically min/maxing. I can't even hope to jump in and compete with the other Players and just have everyone play at the same uber-level. I'm too far behind and the character I would have to build would just make me wretch.

Yep, just venting. But if you have a brilliant idea, shout it out!

Mark Charke
#2
inlicere
Aug 25, 2008 12:30:15 Does the rookie DM know what the others are doing? If not, you should at least make sure he knows that the others are depending on rules that they don't allow in their own games.
#3
rainkiss
Aug 25, 2008 12:58:07 My advice... Sit down with the DM, one on one. Let him know that you're not having fun and, if things continue as they are, you're going to have to stop coming to the game. Let him know what you've said here, that it looks to you like the four of them are running roughshod over him, and aren't being fair to either you (and any other players getting shafted like this) or to him. *ASK IF YOU CAN HELP.* He may be floundering, himself, and not want to ask for help, since, as far as he knows, everyone's having a good time.

You could always offer to run the game if he's overwhelmed, but present that one gently, it could be your rookie DM is also having a great time.
#4
voidraithe
Aug 25, 2008 15:31:30 That is tough. Especially becuase they are your friends. Rainkiss gave good advice. Maybe invite him over for a beer or BBQ away from the others and see what HE thinks. Don't however blame the min/maxing, that may cause some strife.

I have decided not to play game once because I didn't like the rules and this is how I handled it. I explained why I didn't like the rule system they chose to play. I told them I would not play it and that I would find something else to do on the days they are playing. I said I'd still be thier friend and when they were no longer playing that game I would join whatever game that was and that I'd still visit from time to time, just not play with those rules. I said I didn't want them to change the rules to fit me since they were perfectly happy with them, I would just bow out for now.

Now my friends were mature enough to accept it and hopefully your will be too, if it comes to that.

Best Wishes,
Voidy
#5
d1tremere
Aug 25, 2008 15:47:13
That's my gaming group right now. There are actually about seven players, but four are ex-DM's with boatloads of experience running under a rookie DM. That could be good or bad and unfortunately it's the latter.

I'm walking back into the group after some time away. All the Players have broken characters, and not just a little broken - sick, I didn't know those rules existed, broken. Each of the players is using rules they have banned in their own campaigns. One appears to be using ONLY rules he banned in his campaign. And the rookie DM threw them some extra stuff because they were complaining.

After our first fight I came as close to dying as is possible and the power-gamers did not even get hurt. The group dominated my character while I was out. When my character decided to leave the party because of how I'd been treated while unconcious, they pulled the dominated card out and waved it in my face. One player in particular monopolized the DM's time for three hours, then took the DM out of the room for a secret conversation for another hour.

That's my last game with them, at least under these circumstances.

The trouble is, these are all my friends. I don't want to hurt anyone, especially the rookie DM and suddenly the excuses for missing the games have started. That's hard comming from a guy who didn't miss a game for some odd six years straight (no serriously but I was the DM). It was a really good excuse, spending six hours moving furnature for another buddy who was moving - but next weeks excuse might just have to be the truth I suppose. Ug.

As an 18 year veteran of roleplaying its a combination of being tired of fighting to create a fair environment and the sheer hopelessness of trying to reign in 3 other veteran DMs unappologetically min/maxing. I can't even hope to jump in and compete with the other Players and just have everyone play at the same uber-level. I'm too far behind and the character I would have to build would just make me wretch.

Yep, just venting. But if you have a brilliant idea, shout it out!

Mark Charke

Are you talking about a 4E campaign? If so could you give some examples of these min/maxing uber things? The 4E system isn't perfect, but there are several built in safe guards to help with this kind of stuff.
#6
kuonji
Aug 25, 2008 17:22:40 If they really are your friends, they deserve the truth of why you don't want to play. You don't have to go into great detail or hurt anyone's feelings; a simple "I'm not having fun" is probably good enough.

I was playing in a game of Dark Heresy awhile back and I wasn't really enjoying the game that much. So one session I spoke up and told the GM that I wasn't really having fun and briefly explained why. Turned out that a few others in the group weren't really enjoying the game either and that was the end of that. Don't be afraid to speak up to your friends and let them know how you feel. You might let them know that you still want to game with them and that they should look you up when they are ready for a new campaign.
#7
deacon_liadon
Aug 25, 2008 19:29:26 The speaking up option does work. I've done it myself. Talk to the DM first and mention the problems you're having. Then talk to the other players at the game.

It does sound as if the XP'd DM's are taking advantage though. I assume you're playing 3rd ed.
#8
etarnon
Aug 26, 2008 7:39:06 Options I see:

heart to heart talk with the young DM.

Or, find new friends.

Or, talk it out with the New DM, you take over his game, kill off the powergamers.

Or, gather the powergamers together and have a meeting of the minds as to how this is total BS, and a whole bunch of no fun,etc. and they should reign themselves in because this Learn him up by crushing him is not the way to go.

Publicly quit, to run your own game.
#9
Kevin_Video
Aug 26, 2008 12:55:33 I've had this problem before as well, and to be honest, I left the group and haven't looked back. The problem is that they are your friends, and in my case I've known them for upwards of a decade. We were good friends, but even friends have their own inside clicks, and they did.

The best you can do is talk to the DM. If the DM's not willing to budge, or do anything about it, tell everyone the exact reason for why you're leaving, and leave. They might not like it, but too bad. They should have thought about that before they did what they did to your character. Heck, just because I went to a friend's wedding instead of role play with them for one night, a player used his necromancer to have my character jump out of a window from a three-story building. That's not fair to me, and it's what started the rift. It only got worse from there in other games.

Hopefully you won't be as easily replaced as myself, or the friend who left with me when his characters started to get bullied after I left.
#10
rainkiss
Aug 26, 2008 13:42:42 Yugh, anytime you find a group who decides that one PC is their personal kick-puppy, it's time to leave and not look back. The players (and the DM, if he or she allows it) are taking out their own little insecurities by picking on someone else. Bullying is never pretty.
#11
axterix
Aug 26, 2008 16:24:44
Are you talking about a 4E campaign? If so could you give some examples of these min/maxing uber things? The 4E system isn't perfect, but there are several built in safe guards to help with this kind of stuff.

Yeah, it sounds to me more like a campaign based on something other than 4E.

If that's the case, the GM should limit things to just the core books, to keep things simple for himself while he learns the tricks of the trade.

If it is 4E, is he playing a high level campaign? Should probably start out at level 1, again, to keep things simple and so as to illuminate issues 1 by 1, so they can be dealt with as they arise, rather than having too many to deal with.
#12
sirkaikillah
Aug 26, 2008 18:28:50 It looks like they are playing beat on the rookie Dm. Just tell them before, what they are doing is going to ruin the game for everyone. That might be ehat they want, teach new Dm a lesson. Any the end let them know that this is self defeating. If they decide to use your character as there own kick puppy because they can, leave the game. Let them know that you don't want to play in a game where you are thier lil beat up. Say your goodbyes wish them happy gaming and let them no you still want to be friends, but the game is no longer fun for you. If they can't except that and expect you to contiue being there lil beat up in the game "for friendship" then there not your friends.
#13
Kaganfindel
Aug 28, 2008 11:28:41 Tell them the truth: you're not having fun playing in this environment, and you don't want to play this campaign anymore. If they ask for you to elaborate, tell them as neutrally as possible that it's a power game, and you're not interested in playing that kind of campaign. If they're your friends, they should understand. If they're good friends, they'll probably ditch the campaign and start one that doesn't make you want to quit.

If you think your friendship can weather bluntness, call it a munchkin game, and tell them straight up they're using the DM as a sock puppet and you don't like it.
#14
charke
Aug 28, 2008 17:40:00
*ASK IF YOU CAN HELP.*

That's really good advice. I never thought about solving the problem through the rookie DM. I just wrote it off as a lost cause - the whole affair but perhaps helping him would help get things back on track rather than abandoning him to the shark infested waters he's in.

Are you talking about a 4E campaign?

It's not a 4th ed. It is in fact Vampire but I was hedging around that detail quietly because I'm over here on the WOTC boards. I know D&D backwards and fowards but I don't know vampire, hence my weak, and frustrate, position in the game, moreso watching experts trash the system.

If they really are your friends, they deserve the truth of why you don't want to play.

Yes, but it feels like like a good soap. I really don't want to bring this to their attention but the episode doesn't end until I do. It's a battle I don't want to fight but obviously I'm going to have to.

Or, find new friends.

Single (without a group) white veteran DM in Vancouver region seeks non-munchkinhause group to play with....

Yugh, anytime you find a group who decides that one PC is their personal kick-puppy, it's time to leave and not look back.

That sentiment comes to mind. Me as a Jonny Combo player, control-freak, I certainly don't like being in the weak and out of control place in the group.

All good advice everyone. I'm sure I'll use some of it. We're not gaming this week but I'm compulsively honest and I'm going to see them all so I'm certain it will all come out in the wash.

Mark Charke
#15
daknit_bard_of_tarot
Aug 28, 2008 22:50:49 Pull the DM to the side and Roll your Diplomancy check on him (I think this will work considering he has low willpower). Ask for the following events.

1) you make a pack with the devil(s) and gain extra powers so that you are not donimated.

2) you can't control your power and no one in the party can stop you.

3) Kill everyone.

4) Start from scratch.

5) tell the DM to grow a pair and say "No" more often.

6) make a list of "100 bad things that can happen to you". Randomly assign item from the list to those that upset the ballence or anger the DM.
#16
rowl
Aug 29, 2008 4:05:30 Truly surprised you didn't call out your friends on their shenanigans. That kind of stuff would never get a chance to be pulled in my group of friends. Someone started pulling that stuff, even as a group - especially as a group, they'd get called out.

"You guys are kidding me right? You're all playing characters using rules that you, yourselves, have banned in your own game? C'mon, quit taking advantage of [insert new DM name here] -that's just wrong and you guys know it! And you, [name], it looks like you're ONLY using rules you've banned - what the heck?" And laugh all the time your saying it because of the sheer ridiculousness of it. That's how it would go down with my friends. It tends to work and everyone starts feeling more than a bit sheepish and looking at the ground abashedly in shame, that last part usually makes someone do the SW:ANH jawa, "What?!" when Uncle Owen called him out on selling the droid with the bad motivator.
#17
defender_of_odintyr
Aug 31, 2008 9:56:27 You say these power-gamers abusing your unconscious character, think about what'd they try to get away with in real life if they could. Sounds like you andthe DM need to just cut and run and find some new friends.

Or that could just be my hatred of power-gamers clouding my judgement.
#18
Man_in_the_Funny_Hat
Sep 01, 2008 11:33:14
People do not have ESP. Nobody can really be expected to know that you have a problem unless you TELL them. So TELL them. ALL of them.
There is nothing rude or threatening about making statements exactly as you've stated them here. Tell them you should have said something before but it's now become intolerable and you need to start over - and this time getting some more of the ground rules straight at the start about what should and shouldn't be allowed including what happens to the characters of absent players. No need to specifically mention that the experienced players have been inexcusably rude for taking advantage of a rookie DM the way they have and the other things they've done. They already know it even if they won't admit it to themselves.
Players can ASK for anything but they don't have the right to be GIVEN everything they ask for. A thing given blindly has no value compared to a thing EARNED. Also, having a thing is often not so pleasing as wanting a thing - it is not logical, but it is often true. [Spock]
They may be your friends but friendship only gives you so much lattitude. If they'd have done to MY character in my absence what they did to yours I'd have given them what-for on the spot. There's another saying I like to quote, "Remember this about the ol' pie-in-the-face: it generally stops being funny when it starts being YOU." If your "friends" continue to take the obnoxious and juvenile attitude you describe - including about what they DID - by all means lose it. Go off on them. Come unglued. Apply some negative reinforcement. If they can't/won't understand and accept that what they've done is rude and wrong then you need to instruct them in the strongest possible terms.
#19
charke
Sep 01, 2008 12:38:06 I an understand the frustration you guys feel, but I can't hardly cut and run on friends of 15 years. We're all old hats at this in our late 20's, early 30's and we're all power games, myself included. It's been an age old problem. Vampire was supposed to be our big shining hope to get away from that and into roleplaying and for a couple of months it worked. Then the min/maxing started again.

Going to 4th I don't see that it's geared towards producing role players... ..actually the opposite.

Well next Saturday is our next game and I guess I'll have to come up with something by then or leave the country.

Mark Charke
#20
nexvesica
Sep 01, 2008 19:09:29 I don't want to play the campaign anymore...but we can still do

If all else fails, take most of the combat aspects out of the game, fights that no matter how powerful the pcs are they just can't win, or fights that they can win, but the consequences would ultimately result in their deaths after. If you guys want to run a powergamed campaign though...*shrugs* well, then this will likely just continue, if it's really just battles you're supposed to be winning anyway, then no real harm...if your pcs are killing off major plot npcs that aren't supposed to be killed it's a different story.
#21
jenrock
Sep 01, 2008 19:55:26 One suggestion that hasn't been mentioned (insofar as I can tell (I scanned, not read)) is to not play D&D for a while. Switch to a new game for a little while, one that is not completely familiar to more than half the group. Fantasy Craft is coming out soon, and there's also plenty of "niche games" to tide your group over for a while.

Go over to drivethrurpg.com and browse through, they have enough titles (and cheap ones too) that your sure to find something.

Even if you can't find something, ask the folks at the Forge or RPG laboratory or 1km1kt to make it. I know for a fact that the latter two are extremely helpful, if you can wade through the spam.

Like I said, it's just a suggestion.
#22
mariposa_cdo
Sep 02, 2008 12:01:32 Talking with the rookie DM, with the vetran DMs is a given,
and quitting isn't an option with some friends.
Many have given good advices and I don't want to repeat them,
SO...

Though many of the advices were good, I think we missed one,
since you are venting I guess some of it comes from lack of balance, and
If the problem is that your character is weaker and underpowered,
and that is the source of your strife ask the broken vetran DMs to
rebuild your character to your specifications.

Ask to change a character, and then ask them to build it for you.
Aside from bringing balance to the force, your character will now rival them
on the field, and the bonus is that most people don't want to see their
characters or build destroyed so they'll treat your character better.
As if their own.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 charke Aug 25, 2008 11:38:25	That's my gaming group right now. There are actually about seven players, but four are ex-DM's with boatloads of experience running under a rookie DM. That could be good or bad and unfortunately it's the latter. I'm walking back into the group after some time away. All the Players have broken characters, and not just a little broken - sick, I didn't know those rules existed, broken. Each of the players is using rules they have banned in their own campaigns. One appears to be using ONLY rules he banned in his campaign. And the rookie DM threw them some extra stuff because they were complaining. After our first fight I came as close to dying as is possible and the power-gamers did not even get hurt. The group dominated my character while I was out. When my character decided to leave the party because of how I'd been treated while unconcious, they pulled the dominated card out and waved it in my face. One player in particular monopolized the DM's time for three hours, then took the DM out of the room for a secret conversation for another hour. That's my last game with them, at least under these circumstances. The trouble is, these are all my friends. I don't want to hurt anyone, especially the rookie DM and suddenly the excuses for missing the games have started. That's hard comming from a guy who didn't miss a game for some odd six years straight (no serriously but I was the DM). It was a really good excuse, spending six hours moving furnature for another buddy who was moving - but next weeks excuse might just have to be the truth I suppose. Ug. As an 18 year veteran of roleplaying its a combination of being tired of fighting to create a fair environment and the sheer hopelessness of trying to reign in 3 other veteran DMs unappologetically min/maxing. I can't even hope to jump in and compete with the other Players and just have everyone play at the same uber-level. I'm too far behind and the character I would have to build would just make me wretch. Yep, just venting. But if you have a brilliant idea, shout it out! Mark Charke
#2 inlicere Aug 25, 2008 12:30:15	Does the rookie DM know what the others are doing? If not, you should at least make sure he knows that the others are depending on rules that they don't allow in their own games.
#3 rainkiss Aug 25, 2008 12:58:07	My advice... Sit down with the DM, one on one. Let him know that you're not having fun and, if things continue as they are, you're going to have to stop coming to the game. Let him know what you've said here, that it looks to you like the four of them are running roughshod over him, and aren't being fair to either you (and any other players getting shafted like this) or to him. ASK IF YOU CAN HELP. He may be floundering, himself, and not want to ask for help, since, as far as he knows, everyone's having a good time. You could always offer to run the game if he's overwhelmed, but present that one gently, it could be your rookie DM is also having a great time.
#4 voidraithe Aug 25, 2008 15:31:30	That is tough. Especially becuase they are your friends. Rainkiss gave good advice. Maybe invite him over for a beer or BBQ away from the others and see what HE thinks. Don't however blame the min/maxing, that may cause some strife. I have decided not to play game once because I didn't like the rules and this is how I handled it. I explained why I didn't like the rule system they chose to play. I told them I would not play it and that I would find something else to do on the days they are playing. I said I'd still be thier friend and when they were no longer playing that game I would join whatever game that was and that I'd still visit from time to time, just not play with those rules. I said I didn't want them to change the rules to fit me since they were perfectly happy with them, I would just bow out for now. Now my friends were mature enough to accept it and hopefully your will be too, if it comes to that. Best Wishes, Voidy
#5 d1tremere Aug 25, 2008 15:47:13	That's my gaming group right now. There are actually about seven players, but four are ex-DM's with boatloads of experience running under a rookie DM. That could be good or bad and unfortunately it's the latter. I'm walking back into the group after some time away. All the Players have broken characters, and not just a little broken - sick, I didn't know those rules existed, broken. Each of the players is using rules they have banned in their own campaigns. One appears to be using ONLY rules he banned in his campaign. And the rookie DM threw them some extra stuff because they were complaining. After our first fight I came as close to dying as is possible and the power-gamers did not even get hurt. The group dominated my character while I was out. When my character decided to leave the party because of how I'd been treated while unconcious, they pulled the dominated card out and waved it in my face. One player in particular monopolized the DM's time for three hours, then took the DM out of the room for a secret conversation for another hour. That's my last game with them, at least under these circumstances. The trouble is, these are all my friends. I don't want to hurt anyone, especially the rookie DM and suddenly the excuses for missing the games have started. That's hard comming from a guy who didn't miss a game for some odd six years straight (no serriously but I was the DM). It was a really good excuse, spending six hours moving furnature for another buddy who was moving - but next weeks excuse might just have to be the truth I suppose. Ug. As an 18 year veteran of roleplaying its a combination of being tired of fighting to create a fair environment and the sheer hopelessness of trying to reign in 3 other veteran DMs unappologetically min/maxing. I can't even hope to jump in and compete with the other Players and just have everyone play at the same uber-level. I'm too far behind and the character I would have to build would just make me wretch. Yep, just venting. But if you have a brilliant idea, shout it out! Mark Charke Are you talking about a 4E campaign? If so could you give some examples of these min/maxing uber things? The 4E system isn't perfect, but there are several built in safe guards to help with this kind of stuff.
#6 kuonji Aug 25, 2008 17:22:40	If they really are your friends, they deserve the truth of why you don't want to play. You don't have to go into great detail or hurt anyone's feelings; a simple "I'm not having fun" is probably good enough. I was playing in a game of Dark Heresy awhile back and I wasn't really enjoying the game that much. So one session I spoke up and told the GM that I wasn't really having fun and briefly explained why. Turned out that a few others in the group weren't really enjoying the game either and that was the end of that. Don't be afraid to speak up to your friends and let them know how you feel. You might let them know that you still want to game with them and that they should look you up when they are ready for a new campaign.
#7 deacon_liadon Aug 25, 2008 19:29:26	The speaking up option does work. I've done it myself. Talk to the DM first and mention the problems you're having. Then talk to the other players at the game. It does sound as if the XP'd DM's are taking advantage though. I assume you're playing 3rd ed.
#8 etarnon Aug 26, 2008 7:39:06	Options I see: heart to heart talk with the young DM. Or, find new friends. Or, talk it out with the New DM, you take over his game, kill off the powergamers. Or, gather the powergamers together and have a meeting of the minds as to how this is total BS, and a whole bunch of no fun,etc. and they should reign themselves in because this Learn him up by crushing him is not the way to go. Publicly quit, to run your own game.
#9 Kevin_Video Aug 26, 2008 12:55:33	I've had this problem before as well, and to be honest, I left the group and haven't looked back. The problem is that they are your friends, and in my case I've known them for upwards of a decade. We were good friends, but even friends have their own inside clicks, and they did. The best you can do is talk to the DM. If the DM's not willing to budge, or do anything about it, tell everyone the exact reason for why you're leaving, and leave. They might not like it, but too bad. They should have thought about that before they did what they did to your character. Heck, just because I went to a friend's wedding instead of role play with them for one night, a player used his necromancer to have my character jump out of a window from a three-story building. That's not fair to me, and it's what started the rift. It only got worse from there in other games. Hopefully you won't be as easily replaced as myself, or the friend who left with me when his characters started to get bullied after I left.
#10 rainkiss Aug 26, 2008 13:42:42	Yugh, anytime you find a group who decides that one PC is their personal kick-puppy, it's time to leave and not look back. The players (and the DM, if he or she allows it) are taking out their own little insecurities by picking on someone else. Bullying is never pretty.
#11 axterix Aug 26, 2008 16:24:44	Are you talking about a 4E campaign? If so could you give some examples of these min/maxing uber things? The 4E system isn't perfect, but there are several built in safe guards to help with this kind of stuff. Yeah, it sounds to me more like a campaign based on something other than 4E. If that's the case, the GM should limit things to just the core books, to keep things simple for himself while he learns the tricks of the trade. If it is 4E, is he playing a high level campaign? Should probably start out at level 1, again, to keep things simple and so as to illuminate issues 1 by 1, so they can be dealt with as they arise, rather than having too many to deal with.
#12 sirkaikillah Aug 26, 2008 18:28:50	It looks like they are playing beat on the rookie Dm. Just tell them before, what they are doing is going to ruin the game for everyone. That might be ehat they want, teach new Dm a lesson. Any the end let them know that this is self defeating. If they decide to use your character as there own kick puppy because they can, leave the game. Let them know that you don't want to play in a game where you are thier lil beat up. Say your goodbyes wish them happy gaming and let them no you still want to be friends, but the game is no longer fun for you. If they can't except that and expect you to contiue being there lil beat up in the game "for friendship" then there not your friends.
#13 Kaganfindel Aug 28, 2008 11:28:41	Tell them the truth: you're not having fun playing in this environment, and you don't want to play this campaign anymore. If they ask for you to elaborate, tell them as neutrally as possible that it's a power game, and you're not interested in playing that kind of campaign. If they're your friends, they should understand. If they're good friends, they'll probably ditch the campaign and start one that doesn't make you want to quit. If you think your friendship can weather bluntness, call it a munchkin game, and tell them straight up they're using the DM as a sock puppet and you don't like it.
#14 charke Aug 28, 2008 17:40:00	ASK IF YOU CAN HELP. That's really good advice. I never thought about solving the problem through the rookie DM. I just wrote it off as a lost cause - the whole affair but perhaps helping him would help get things back on track rather than abandoning him to the shark infested waters he's in. Are you talking about a 4E campaign? It's not a 4th ed. It is in fact Vampire but I was hedging around that detail quietly because I'm over here on the WOTC boards. I know D&D backwards and fowards but I don't know vampire, hence my weak, and frustrate, position in the game, moreso watching experts trash the system. If they really are your friends, they deserve the truth of why you don't want to play. Yes, but it feels like like a good soap. I really don't want to bring this to their attention but the episode doesn't end until I do. It's a battle I don't want to fight but obviously I'm going to have to. Or, find new friends. Single (without a group) white veteran DM in Vancouver region seeks non-munchkinhause group to play with.... Yugh, anytime you find a group who decides that one PC is their personal kick-puppy, it's time to leave and not look back. That sentiment comes to mind. Me as a Jonny Combo player, control-freak, I certainly don't like being in the weak and out of control place in the group. All good advice everyone. I'm sure I'll use some of it. We're not gaming this week but I'm compulsively honest and I'm going to see them all so I'm certain it will all come out in the wash. Mark Charke
#15 daknit_bard_of_tarot Aug 28, 2008 22:50:49	Pull the DM to the side and Roll your Diplomancy check on him (I think this will work considering he has low willpower). Ask for the following events. 1) you make a pack with the devil(s) and gain extra powers so that you are not donimated. 2) you can't control your power and no one in the party can stop you. 3) Kill everyone. 4) Start from scratch. 5) tell the DM to grow a pair and say "No" more often. 6) make a list of "100 bad things that can happen to you". Randomly assign item from the list to those that upset the ballence or anger the DM.
#16 rowl Aug 29, 2008 4:05:30	Truly surprised you didn't call out your friends on their shenanigans. That kind of stuff would never get a chance to be pulled in my group of friends. Someone started pulling that stuff, even as a group - especially as a group, they'd get called out. "You guys are kidding me right? You're all playing characters using rules that you, yourselves, have banned in your own game? C'mon, quit taking advantage of [insert new DM name here] -that's just wrong and you guys know it! And you, [name], it looks like you're ONLY using rules you've banned - what the heck?" And laugh all the time your saying it because of the sheer ridiculousness of it. That's how it would go down with my friends. It tends to work and everyone starts feeling more than a bit sheepish and looking at the ground abashedly in shame, that last part usually makes someone do the SW:ANH jawa, "What?!" when Uncle Owen called him out on selling the droid with the bad motivator.
#17 defender_of_odintyr Aug 31, 2008 9:56:27	You say these power-gamers abusing your unconscious character, think about what'd they try to get away with in real life if they could. Sounds like you andthe DM need to just cut and run and find some new friends. Or that could just be my hatred of power-gamers clouding my judgement.
#18 Man_in_the_Funny_Hat Sep 01, 2008 11:33:14	People do not have ESP. Nobody can really be expected to know that you have a problem unless you TELL them. So TELL them. ALL of them. There is nothing rude or threatening about making statements exactly as you've stated them here. Tell them you should have said something before but it's now become intolerable and you need to start over - and this time getting some more of the ground rules straight at the start about what should and shouldn't be allowed including what happens to the characters of absent players. No need to specifically mention that the experienced players have been inexcusably rude for taking advantage of a rookie DM the way they have and the other things they've done. They already know it even if they won't admit it to themselves. Players can ASK for anything but they don't have the right to be GIVEN everything they ask for. A thing given blindly has no value compared to a thing EARNED. Also, having a thing is often not so pleasing as wanting a thing - it is not logical, but it is often true. [Spock] They may be your friends but friendship only gives you so much lattitude. If they'd have done to MY character in my absence what they did to yours I'd have given them what-for on the spot. There's another saying I like to quote, "Remember this about the ol' pie-in-the-face: it generally stops being funny when it starts being YOU." If your "friends" continue to take the obnoxious and juvenile attitude you describe - including about what they DID - by all means lose it. Go off on them. Come unglued. Apply some negative reinforcement. If they can't/won't understand and accept that what they've done is rude and wrong then you need to instruct them in the strongest possible terms.
#19 charke Sep 01, 2008 12:38:06	I an understand the frustration you guys feel, but I can't hardly cut and run on friends of 15 years. We're all old hats at this in our late 20's, early 30's and we're all power games, myself included. It's been an age old problem. Vampire was supposed to be our big shining hope to get away from that and into roleplaying and for a couple of months it worked. Then the min/maxing started again. Going to 4th I don't see that it's geared towards producing role players... ..actually the opposite. Well next Saturday is our next game and I guess I'll have to come up with something by then or leave the country. Mark Charke
#20 nexvesica Sep 01, 2008 19:09:29	I don't want to play the campaign anymore...but we can still do If all else fails, take most of the combat aspects out of the game, fights that no matter how powerful the pcs are they just can't win, or fights that they can win, but the consequences would ultimately result in their deaths after. If you guys want to run a powergamed campaign though...shrugs well, then this will likely just continue, if it's really just battles you're supposed to be winning anyway, then no real harm...if your pcs are killing off major plot npcs that aren't supposed to be killed it's a different story.
#21 jenrock Sep 01, 2008 19:55:26	One suggestion that hasn't been mentioned (insofar as I can tell (I scanned, not read)) is to not play D&D for a while. Switch to a new game for a little while, one that is not completely familiar to more than half the group. Fantasy Craft is coming out soon, and there's also plenty of "niche games" to tide your group over for a while. Go over to drivethrurpg.com and browse through, they have enough titles (and cheap ones too) that your sure to find something. Even if you can't find something, ask the folks at the Forge or RPG laboratory or 1km1kt to make it. I know for a fact that the latter two are extremely helpful, if you can wade through the spam. Like I said, it's just a suggestion.
#22 mariposa_cdo Sep 02, 2008 12:01:32	Talking with the rookie DM, with the vetran DMs is a given, and quitting isn't an option with some friends. Many have given good advices and I don't want to repeat them, SO... Though many of the advices were good, I think we missed one, since you are venting I guess some of it comes from lack of balance, and If the problem is that your character is weaker and underpowered, and that is the source of your strife ask the broken vetran DMs to rebuild your character to your specifications. Ask to change a character, and then ask them to build it for you. Aside from bringing balance to the force, your character will now rival them on the field, and the bonus is that most people don't want to see their characters or build destroyed so they'll treat your character better. As if their own.