4E Q about sorcerer (dual-wielding) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 madoushi Feb 08, 2014 14:33:30	okay first off this is from my main game i play once a week with some real life friends. and the guy who is the dm only allows the use of books he owns witch is fine with me. how ever i do have a few questions but before that will post a few bits of info. class sorcerer race dragon-born Level 2 feats arcane spell flurry & enhanced blast for dragons breath weapon +1 Staff of Fiery Might (+1 attack rolls and damage rolls) (critical +1d8 fire damage) (has daily power but not important) basic at-will if you need to use as an example acid orb DM Book list d&d 4e book 1-2-3 ebberon book adventurers vault Q1. Dual-wielding a friend is useing 2 weapons on a ranger i understand he can attack with both and i cannot use both at same time. but if i use a 2nd staff or dagger do i need any training in a feat to equip them? Q2. dual-wielding do you need a feat for the enhancement bonus if so what feat and how does this work? Q3. Is it worth dual-wielding for me as a sorcerer? Q4.How do critical hit work with a staff when useing at-will or my encounter powers? Thank you for your help i am new to game 3 weeks playing once a week but i am enjoying the game lots and wish to learn more about it to catch up to the others as they are long time players. ps would ask my dm but dont wanna keep pestering with questions.
#2 crimsyn Feb 08, 2014 18:36:58	First off, "the dm only allows the use of books he owns" isn't a good sign. It sounds a little like unnecessary control freakery. You don't need these kinds of restrictions to run 4e, it's not like there's a glut of unbalanced content out there that DMs need to rein in. madoushi wrote:
#3 Forehead Feb 09, 2014 1:24:34	Yeah, what Crimsyn said. You can hold an implement in each hand without any feat or other cost, no problem. However. When you make an implement attack, you have to choose which implement to use. There is no penalty for using an implement held in the off-hand. This can be useful sometimes if you have, say, one implement that deals more damage and another implement that applies a special effect. But I personally find it easier to just focus on one implement for attacking, and in the off-hand holding an implement with more of a passive bonus (for example a Defensive Staff).
#4 madoushi Feb 09, 2014 5:13:41	can you tell me what book the feat is in and give me example how it would work please and thank you. (as the dm does have a few other books but unsure on the names) one more thing i told a friend of mine what you guys said about that critical (not the dm yet) and he told me you guys are wrong and unless i can show him in the book where it says i get to roll the critical on my weapon i wont be able to use it on rolls of natural 20 rolls he basicly said that it only applys if i use the staff as a melee weapon so can a pro comfirm this and help me by saying where it lists that it works like that. the guy in the group basicly said dont ask on forums as players make there own rules and powers up but with this being the main forum for the game i figued all the replys would be from real books.
#5 baldhermit Feb 09, 2014 6:43:02	Well, first of all your friend is a dumbass. Someone in a small pool of players is much more likely to make up rules, or interpret them incorrectly, than a group of people cooperating and contributing from all corners of the world. Dual Implement Spellcaster (as crymsin already said) is from a book called Arcane Power. If you are holding an implement in your offhand, that you are not using for this attack, you can add it's enhancement bonus to the damage roll of the triggering attack. So if you have for example an implement in your main hand that you are making the attack with, and a +3 Wand/Rod/Staff of whatever in your off hand, that attack will deal 3 points of damage more than it would if you did not have that feat, or your offhand would be empty. From the player handbook (which really: read it some time, and your friends as well) page 278: critical Critical Hits When you roll a natural 20 and your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense, you score a critical hit, also known as a crit. CRITICAL HIT DAMAGE ✦ Natural 20: If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense. (..) ✦ Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit.) ✦ Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.
#6 thespaceinvader Feb 09, 2014 6:55:18	FWIW: It's often worth wielding a Dagger in one hand and a Staff in the other for a Sorcerer - partly to get Dual Implement Spellcaster bonuses, partly because the Sorc has a number of useful powers which require you to be wielding a Dagger to use them (Ensorcelled Blade and Lightning Cuts among others), but generally want to be using a Staff because Staff Expertise is awesome and so is Staff of Ruin. And yeah, your DM is just flat wrong about implement powers not getting critical bonuses.
#7 baldhermit Feb 09, 2014 7:00:07	thespaceinvader wrote:
#8 madoushi Feb 09, 2014 7:04:40	its all good now sorted all my questions out as for the dm it was not him who said all this some of it was other players there all use to 3.5 rules so i guess that is why anyway thanks for help
#9 crimsyn Feb 09, 2014 8:13:33	madoushi wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

madoushi

Feb 08, 2014 14:33:30

okay first off this is from my main game i play once a week with some real life friends. and the guy who is the dm only allows the use of books he owns witch is fine with me. how ever i do have a few questions but before that will post a few bits of info.

class sorcerer

race dragon-born

Level 2

feats arcane spell flurry & enhanced blast for dragons breath

weapon +1 Staff of Fiery Might (+1 attack rolls and damage rolls) (critical +1d8 fire damage) (has daily power but not important)

basic at-will if you need to use as an example acid orb

DM Book list

d&d 4e book 1-2-3

ebberon book

adventurers vault

Q1. Dual-wielding a friend is useing 2 weapons on a ranger i understand he can attack with both and i cannot use both at same time. but if i use a 2nd staff or dagger do i need any training in a feat to equip them?

Q2. dual-wielding do you need a feat for the enhancement bonus if so what feat and how does this work?

Q3. Is it worth dual-wielding for me as a sorcerer?

Q4.How do critical hit work with a staff when useing at-will or my encounter powers?

Thank you for your help i am new to game 3 weeks playing once a week but i am enjoying the game lots and wish to learn more about it to catch up to the others as they are long time players. ps would ask my dm but dont wanna keep pestering with questions.

crimsyn

Feb 08, 2014 18:36:58

First off, "the dm only allows the use of books he owns" isn't a good sign. It sounds a little like unnecessary control freakery. You don't need these kinds of restrictions to run 4e, it's not like there's a glut of unbalanced content out there that DMs need to rein in.

madoushi wrote:

Forehead

Feb 09, 2014 1:24:34

Yeah, what Crimsyn said.

You can hold an implement in each hand without any feat or other cost, no problem. However. When you make an implement attack, you have to choose which implement to use. There is no penalty for using an implement held in the off-hand. This can be useful sometimes if you have, say, one implement that deals more damage and another implement that applies a special effect. But I personally find it easier to just focus on one implement for attacking, and in the off-hand holding an implement with more of a passive bonus (for example a Defensive Staff).

madoushi

Feb 09, 2014 5:13:41

can you tell me what book the feat is in and give me example how it would work please and thank you. (as the dm does have a few other books but unsure on the names)

one more thing i told a friend of mine what you guys said about that critical (not the dm yet) and he told me you guys are wrong and unless i can show him in the book where it says i get to roll the critical on my weapon i wont be able to use it on rolls of natural 20 rolls he basicly said that it only applys if i use the staff as a melee weapon so can a pro comfirm this and help me by saying where it lists that it works like that.

the guy in the group basicly said dont ask on forums as players make there own rules and powers up but with this being the main forum for the game i figued all the replys would be from real books.

baldhermit

Feb 09, 2014 6:43:02

Well, first of all your friend is a dumbass. Someone in a small pool of players is much more likely to make up rules, or interpret them incorrectly, than a group of people cooperating and contributing from all corners of the world.

Dual Implement Spellcaster (as crymsin already said) is from a book called Arcane Power. If you are holding an implement in your offhand, that you are not using for this attack, you can add it's enhancement bonus to the damage roll of the triggering attack. So if you have for example an implement in your main hand that you are making the attack with, and a +3 Wand/Rod/Staff of whatever in your off hand, that attack will deal 3 points of damage more than it would if you did not have that feat, or your offhand would be empty.

From the player handbook (which really: read it some time, and your friends as well) page 278:

critical

Critical Hits
When you roll a natural 20 and your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense, you score a critical hit, also known as a crit.

CRITICAL HIT DAMAGE

✦ Natural 20: If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense.

(..)
✦ Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit.)

✦ Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.

thespaceinvader

Feb 09, 2014 6:55:18

FWIW: It's often worth wielding a Dagger in one hand and a Staff in the other for a Sorcerer - partly to get Dual Implement Spellcaster bonuses, partly because the Sorc has a number of useful powers which require you to be wielding a Dagger to use them (Ensorcelled Blade and Lightning Cuts among others), but generally want to be using a Staff because Staff Expertise is awesome and so is Staff of Ruin.

And yeah, your DM is just flat wrong about implement powers not getting critical bonuses.

baldhermit

Feb 09, 2014 7:00:07

thespaceinvader wrote:

madoushi

Feb 09, 2014 7:04:40

its all good now sorted all my questions out as for the dm it was not him who said all this some of it was other players there all use to 3.5 rules so i guess that is why anyway thanks for help

crimsyn

Feb 09, 2014 8:13:33

madoushi wrote: