Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jage Jul 28, 2008 23:08:54	I have an archer ranger build. Twin Strike says "Melee or Ranged". Even though I'm an archer ranger and use Twin Strike almost every round with the bow, I can wield a longsword and a dagger and use Twin Strike in melee as well, right? I don't see anything that prevents it (there is no "you must choose" or anything). Second question, in a round: 1. Put my bow away (move) 2. Draw my sword (minor) 3. Draw my dagger (minor) can't attack unless I spend an action point. So... is there anything that says anything about twin drawing? I would like to pull dagger and sword out at the same time, crossing them. Quick Draw feat would work, but I'm not sure it directly applies. How reasonable would drawing two weapons simultenously being a single minor action be?
#2 Valdark Jul 28, 2008 23:22:32	You can use it. As for twin drawing the only thing that makes this possible by the rules is Quick Draw. It's up to your DM to make the ruling though so I'd get with him/her.
#3 Novacat Jul 28, 2008 23:45:30	You can definitely use Twin Strike in melee, even if you're an archery ranger. As to drawing the weapons, you would need Quick Draw to be able to attack the same round.
#4 Valdark Jul 29, 2008 0:10:09	You can definitely use Twin Strike in melee, even if you're an archery ranger. As to drawing the weapons, you would need Quick Draw to be able to attack the same round. Unless he was already adjacent then it would be two minor actions to draw and one standard to attack.
#5 Novacat Jul 29, 2008 0:14:56	Unless he was already adjacent then it would be two minor actions to draw and one standard to attack. In the given example, the move action was spent putting the bow away. That leaves a minor and a standard, requiring the Quick Draw feat if he intends to use Twin Strike.
#6 Valdark Jul 29, 2008 1:23:55	In the given example, the move action was spent putting the bow away. That leaves a minor and a standard, requiring the Quick Draw feat if he intends to use Twin Strike. Sorry about that. I think dropping the bow and getting to attack would be the better option in that case.
#7 drmorganes Jul 29, 2008 7:43:34	Quick Draw isn't a bad choice for a feat, however. The +2 to Initiative Checks never goes out of style, and being able to draw a weapon as part of your attack frees up your minor action for other fun things.
#8 rainkiss Jul 29, 2008 10:27:14	Drop the bow. Just remember to go back for it, later, and hope nothing picks it up to fire at you. Or, draw one weapon and attack, and NEXT round, draw the other and twin strike, if you're worried about leaving your bow lying around.
#9 josephkell Jul 31, 2008 0:00:20	Unless you can find a specific place in the book that says "Putting away a weapon is move action" (in which case, please tell me because I have been looking for it and can't seem to find it). I think "Putting away" a weapon is a minor action because it is an "enabling action" (putting away a weapon so you can do something else, i.e. minor action) and not a movement related action (which move actions are) or an attack action (which most standard actions are). But Quick Draw would solve the problem pretty well.
#10 jage Jul 31, 2008 0:06:21	Good point let's ask that question. (started a new thread) I need to put my bow away during a combat round. I don't have quick draw and didn't find anything in the book- what kind of action is putting a weapon away? EDIT: Answer it's on p. 289 of the PHB, minor actions list. Thanks Crimson Concerto! In retrospect that didn't really need it's own post. Oops.
#11 dinaim Jul 31, 2008 8:59:57	If you were an Archer Ranger, wouldn't you take the same penalties as everyone else from using 2 weapons? That's as I understand it. I may very well be wrong.
#12 kaldair Jul 31, 2008 9:25:07	If you were an Archer Ranger, wouldn't you take the same penalties as everyone else from using 2 weapons? That's as I understand it. I may very well be wrong. The same penalties as everyone else is... nothing. There's no penalty for wielding two weapons at the same time, other than you can't wield a shield. TWF rangers just get bonus stuff they can do with two weapons, like wielding a one-handed non-off-hand blade in their off hand.
#13 dinaim Jul 31, 2008 10:30:45	*facepalms* That was it. Lol, excuse my ignorance, clicked back into 3e again.
#14 jage Jul 31, 2008 10:42:02	Yes and to clarify, as I understand it unless it specifically says so as part of a power, you are not hitting with your offhand weapon but using it to make an opening for your main weapon. Which, if you consider a chicken as a one handed weapon you could be as effective as someone with two swords in most cases. Also under the text for the Two-Blade build: You [...] rely on the ranger's famous two-weapon fighting style. Which intimates that all rangers have the "two-weapon fighting style". I'm now seeing Archer/Two-Blade just as suggested build directions there doesn't seem to be any difference except for style and suggested distribution of points. That seems to make the powers which are "melee or ranged" more valuable as they are equally useful in either situation. Incidentally since you can pick 2 at-wills there is no way to wind up with only melee or only ranged at-wills, so every build will have at-wills for either weapon (having not looked past 1st level). I'm curious how similar the other classes are as the ranger is the only one I've really had time to look at.
#15 malcapricornis Aug 03, 2008 13:18:39	Difference is a free starting feat when you pick which type of ranger. With regards to putting away bow as a move action. A move action can be downgraded into a minor action. Dropping the bow to the ground is a free action and a good option if needed.
#16 jage Aug 03, 2008 13:24:32	Actually there is a list of Standard, Move and Minor and putting away a weapon is a minor action in 4e. Edit: missed the bonuse feat, plus haven't been doing the hunters quarry 1d6. Thanks!