Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cohen95 Apr 27, 2011 22:26:56	So, backstory: I'm currently DMing a new group. Two players are brand new to pen-and-paper, and the others all have both play and DM experience with at least 3.5 or 4e, or both. When the group hits level 3, we're going to trade off DMs, and the guy playing a Thief will be taking over. I will be picking up my Warlord, as the Cleric and the Paladin are probably next on the list of DMs behind the Thief. Rounding out the party is a Psion, a Warden (new players) and a Warlock. As I was toying around with building my Warlord, I was leaning really heavily toward Battlefront Leader, because the defenders tend to get too close and their marks overwrite. I figured a Battlefront would be fun to play, as the PC I came up was very lead-from-the-front, and I liked the extra power. Plus, with Armored Warlord, I get a pretty great AC. It then struck me, this group has exactly one PC who uses Dex at all. Although nobody completely dumped it, the highest Dex in the group (behind the Thief) is a 14, and most are at 10. So, now I'm finding myself a bit torn. I still really want to play a Battlefront Leader, and I feel like that's the character I've already built in my head, but the Combat Leader feature will probably be way more valuable to the party. Of course, with most of my powers chosen to grant extra actions and bonuses to the other PCs, part of me feels like I shouldn't feel compelled to take CL over BfL just because the party could benefit from it (after all, at least three of the PCs have good Wisdoms, so could take Battlewise). So, what would you do? Incidentally, the build I'm leaning toward is an Insightful Battlefront Mul, with Wis secondary (because more of the party has higher Cha). Still picking out the specifics, but I think I'd rather have heavy shield and scale over light shield and chain, although a polearm would be fun, and that would make it viable. What to do!?
#2 salla Apr 27, 2011 22:46:12	I'd say play what you want.  If you want to play the more heavily-armored Warlord (I'm with you on that one, by the way), go for it.  A group +2 initiative is very nice, no doubt about it, but I don't think of it as a deal-breaker.
#3 Cohen95 Apr 27, 2011 22:50:47	This is where I'm leaning. It's not so much the standard +2, it's that if I played a Dragonborn Inspiring Lord, I could, with two feats, have it as high as +8 by early paragon, which is pretty significant. Of course, another part of me just wants to say screw it and play a Gnome Resourceful Warlord, just to enjoy being a bit silly. But my last character was an Eladrin Wizard, so I really want to play something more gritty and worldly, so I don't think I'm going to talk myself out of the Battlefront.
#4 theapokalypseshovel Apr 27, 2011 22:54:05	What you should do is read LDB's Warlord handbook on the CharOps board. I personally would go TacLord Eladrin with a greatspear, but it sounds like you are aiming for a different style of warlord. Play what you want to play. If you want to be a big meaty tank, be a big meaty tank of a warlord, but I would choose Bravelord or Inspiring over insightful.
#5 Cohen95 Apr 27, 2011 23:13:38	What you should do is read LDB's Warlord handbook on the CharOps board. I personally would go TacLord Eladrin with a greatspear, but it sounds like you are aiming for a different style of warlord. Play what you want to play. If you want to be a big meaty tank, be a big meaty tank of a warlord, but I would choose Bravelord or Inspiring over insightful. I've read the handbook, but as this game will not require heavy optimization, I'm not inclined to sacrifice what I really want to the altar of optimization. I'm leaning Insightful because most of the powers I want to take have Insightful riders, and since the group favors Charisma over Wisdom (if only slightly), I'm leaning that way, to shore up the Wis-based skills.
#6 theapokalypseshovel Apr 28, 2011 2:38:51	Yeah, I wasn't trying to push you towards over optimization, I figured that since you have two healers up in your rotation, having the healing powers of an inspiring warlord would be handy though not essential, and bravelords just seem like the most aggressive. To be honest I had somehow gotten it in my head that the insightful was a ranged-leaning warlord, but after looking at it I'm mistaken.  Since you already are going Wis, grab a polearm!  You should already be up on the battle line with the defender's so they should be marking everybody up, so AC shouldn't be as much of an issue, but reach could come in handy with No Gambit is Wasted
#7 mellored Apr 28, 2011 14:15:50	the highest Dex in the group (behind the Thief) is a 14 Just a word of advice. Everyone should have at least 16, often 18 (after racial bonuses) in their attack stat.  Even the PHB suggest it.
#8 Cohen95 Apr 28, 2011 15:31:19	the highest Dex in the group (behind the Thief) is a 14 Just a word of advice. Everyone should have at least 16, often 18 (after racial bonuses) in their attack stat.  Even the PHB suggest it. Oh they've got that covered. The Thief has an 18-20 Dex. Behind him, though, the next highest Dex in the group is 14, because none of the other PCs use Dex as a Primary or a Secondary ability score. For Paladins, Wardens, Psions, Warlocks, and Clerics, Dex is not high on the list of ability scores, and for some of those it's arguably a dump stat.
#9 mellored Apr 28, 2011 15:35:13	the highest Dex in the group (behind the Thief) is a 14 Just a word of advice. Everyone should have at least 16, often 18 (after racial bonuses) in their attack stat.  Even the PHB suggest it. Oh they've got that covered. The Thief has an 18-20 Dex. Behind him, though, the next highest Dex in the group is 14, because none of the other PCs use Dex as a Primary or a Secondary ability score. For Paladins, Wardens, Psions, Warlocks, and Clerics, Dex is not high on the list of ability scores, and for some of those it's arguably a dump stat. Ok.  I just misread what you said.  I though you said the thief had 14 dex.
#10 bronski113 Apr 29, 2011 0:40:33	I'd go with the people saying to play what you want.  Basically any of the features will benefit your group in some way so pick the one that you will have most fun with. I rolled up a Archer Warlord and took Canny Leader because it fit the idea for the character I had.  Basically I wanted a leader type character that would fit in with Ranger like characters.  So it fit that he would have good perception.  There are some feats and what not I will take that are mainly for the benefit of the party but if they really changed the character I wanted to play I wouldn't choose those feats. In the end just play what you are going to have fun with.
#11 Enlightened1 May 01, 2011 1:14:16	... as this game will not require heavy optimization, I'm not inclined to sacrifice what I really want to the altar of optimization. It looks like you've answered your own question right here. Done and done, no?
#12 Cohen95 May 01, 2011 1:20:56	... as this game will not require heavy optimization, I'm not inclined to sacrifice what I really want to the altar of optimization. It looks like you've answered your own question right here. Done and done, no? Yeah, pretty much. I mostly just wanted someone to tell me that, yes, it's okay to play what -I- want to play. Weird, I know, but especially in a group like this, that swaps out DMs every so often, I feel compelled to play what's needed, so I guess I just wanted a little reaffirmation. So, let's modify the thread direction: What are some fun Warlord concepts you've played that turned out to really have a huge impact on the party?
#13 mellored May 04, 2011 11:50:30	I havn't played it, but i've though of having a warlord who's a little girl. She just screams in fright (standard) and the rest of her party rushes to protect her (as a free action).  She also cry's (minor) for her protectes when they get hurt, encuraging them to get up (surge +1d6), or shrug of an effect (saving throw).
#14 Cohen95 May 04, 2011 12:44:52	I havn't played it, but i've though of having a warlord who's a little girl. She just screams in fright (standard) and the rest of her party rushes to protect her (as a free action).  She also cry's (minor) for her protectes when they get hurt, encuraging them to get up (surge +1d6), or shrug of an effect (saving throw). We've all seen the handbook, Mellored, be honest. The little girl is a zombie.
#15 mellored May 04, 2011 13:31:08	I havn't played it, but i've though of having a warlord who's a little girl. She just screams in fright (standard) and the rest of her party rushes to protect her (as a free action).  She also cry's (minor) for her protectes when they get hurt, encuraging them to get up (surge +1d6), or shrug of an effect (saving throw). We've all seen the handbook, Mellored, be honest. The little girl is a zombie. Pfff.. way to spoil the surprise ending. "You've been dead the whole time".
#16 Timmeh May 05, 2011 16:18:03	I really enjoyed the Bravelord. With another leader/2 defenders in the party, you can afford to be rather aggressive.
#17 eehlert May 12, 2011 16:07:53	I've recently become a big fan of double weapons for the versatility they can bring a character. If you want to be aggressive and play a semi-striker, roll a half-elf and forget the shield, picking up the zulaat from Eberron's PHB and choosing the ranger's twin strike as your Dilettante power. It's a 2d4 weapon (effectively brutal), defensive for a +1 to AC, is a heavy blade for heavy blade opportunity and such feats, and stout so it can be used as a 2-handed weapon if necessary. Pick up Power Attack, grab flanking with a defender and power swing away. The half elf has a feat at heroic tier that lets you use your dilettante power twice per encounter instead of just once, and at level 11 you can trade that for Versatile Dilettante which allows you to use twin strike as a true at-will. It's not CharOp but it's fun and surprisingly effective. I played a half-elf Cleric that twin striked with a mace in one hand and an unarmed strike via spiked gauntlet for the other, with the unarmed attack being fluffed as nothing more than a Spartan kick with a steel-toed boot to the sweet spot. Many lulz where had.
#18 Cohen95 May 12, 2011 16:32:03	I've recently become a big fan of double weapons for the versatility they can bring a character. If you want to be aggressive and play a semi-striker, roll a half-elf and forget the shield, picking up the zulaat from Eberron's PHB and choosing the ranger's twin strike as your Dilettante power. It's a 2d4 weapon (effectively brutal), defensive for a +1 to AC, is a heavy blade for heavy blade opportunity and such feats, and stout so it can be used as a 2-handed weapon if necessary. Pick up Power Attack, grab flanking with a defender and power swing away. The half elf has a feat at heroic tier that lets you use your dilettante power twice per encounter instead of just once, and at level 11 you can trade that for Versatile Dilettante which allows you to use twin strike as a true at-will. It's not CharOp but it's fun and surprisingly effective. I played a half-elf Cleric that twin striked with a mace in one hand and an unarmed strike via spiked gauntlet for the other, with the unarmed attack being fluffed as nothing more than a Spartan kick with a steel-toed boot to the sweet spot. Many lulz where had. If I was going to do that, I would just play a Striker. Seriously, none of that sounds even remotely apetizing to me.