The challenge: Present a way you, as a player, would overcome said scenario.
The rules: "Escaping" does NOT consitute victory. You must find a way to reliably either kill the Kobolds or move through the area with impunity. Any editions' resources can be used, but they Can't be mixed and matched, and we're using level 12 characters here, not level 30 (or 20, depending on the edition). Also keep in mind that this scenario would not exist in a bubble, but in the context of an overall campaign. If you design and optimize a party of characters to deal with this, and only this, scenario, I'll call you out if they could not function properly for "normal" adventuring.
Good luck!
(This is just for fun, a mental excercise meant to stretch creativity to account for DM viciousness. It has no relevance to any active situation, but this seemed the most appropriate place for this, and I thought you guys might like to take a crack at it. I'll not be able to respond Super often, but I will respond, rest assured!)
Wizard who knows Flaming Sphere/Cloud of Daggers, Magic Missile and Blur.
Guys who heal wizard.
Guys who stand in front of wizard.
Done .
3.5 Ed.
Decanter of endless water
Cold spells + combat casting
4th ed.
Wizard who knows Flaming Sphere/Cloud of Daggers, Magic Missile and Blur.
Guys who heal wizard.
Guys who stand in front of wizard.
Done .
Unfortunately, the Wizard dies pretty quickly. As he is using his minor to sustain Flaming Sphere, his move to either move himself (6 squares per turn) or the Sphere, and his standard to ready his action to attack anyone peeking around the corner, he is taking (in 4th ed) a sustained 10 points of damage per round from the fire he is standing in, and dies. If he uses more than a move to get out of the fire faster, he cannot ready an action to attack the Kobolds, and faces sniping fire from the corridors. He also, once in one of the side passages, would take damage from the molotov coctails, murder holes, etc. Even if they only hit him on a nat 20, he faces a choice between getting shot at endlessly, or slowly wading through fire, which doesn't need an attack roll to kill him.
Sorry, better luck next time!
3.5 Ed.
Decanter of endless water
Cold spells + combat casting
Nice call on the decanter of endless water! A great tool to have, and within the budget of a mid level PC. In and of itself, though, still not enough to stem the tide. It just makes it so you're not taking constant fire damage from the fire in the main corridors. You still have to deal with the sniping (I assume with readied actions?), limited spells per day, and the decanter won't help against the molotov coctails or murder holes, not to mention whatever other nasty surprises the Kobolds have in store.
A good start, but you're still dead.
4th ed.
Wizard who knows Flaming Sphere/Cloud of Daggers, Magic Missile and Blur.
Guys who heal wizard.
Guys who stand in front of wizard.
Done .
Unfortunately, the Wizard dies pretty quickly. As he is using his minor to sustain Flaming Sphere, his move to either move himself (6 squares per turn) or the Sphere, and his standard to ready his action to attack anyone peeking around the corner, he is taking (in 4th ed) a sustained 10 points of damage per round from the fire he is standing in, and dies. If he uses more than a move to get out of the fire faster, he cannot ready an action to attack the Kobolds, and faces sniping fire from the corridors. He also, once in one of the side passages, would take damage from the molotov coctails, murder holes, etc. Even if they only hit him on a nat 20, he faces a choice between getting shot at endlessly, or slowly wading through fire, which doesn't need an attack roll to kill him.
Sorry, better luck next time!
I was under the impression that the characters would be run by halfway competent individuals.
He conjures it, say, 3 squares away from himself and casts blur. The kobolds have a maximum of 4 hp. Assuming he didn't assign ability scores by chance, he should easily have 16 or more intelligence. Thus at the start of each kobolds turn, they die if they're adjacent to the sphere (1d4 plus int mod damage). Thus he runs through the encounter, spending a move to move either himself or the sphere, minor to sustain, and the ocasional standard to use cloud of daggers to pick off the ones that the sphere can't get to (Asusming a +4 in wisdom). Granted, the kobolds can still try to attack him, but blur gives +2 to all defenses, and total concealment gives them a -5 to hit, assuming they're attacking the right square to begin with. Throw in some wallwalkers and he can be on any given square of the floor, wall or cieling. And for extra lulz, make him a changeling and have him change into a kobold at some point while blurred, so if there are more than the 200 or so kobold you could likely kill in a bottleneck heavy dungeon in 50 turns, you can bluff your way into being ignored until you can take an extended rest.
Edit: Missed the part about the fire from the kobolds, but tiefling wizard , done (Granted, no changeling lulz, but it shouldn't be a problem anyway(Although the idea would be to slaughter the kobolds before they have a chance to trap you)). Alternatively, to keep the changeling lulz going, fire shield.
Regarding the decanter, I assume he meant just flooding the cave from outside.
3.5 Ed.
Decanter of endless water
Cold spells + combat casting
Nice call on the decanter of endless water! A great tool to have, and within the budget of a mid level PC. In and of itself, though, still not enough to stem the tide. It just makes it so you're not taking constant fire damage from the fire in the main corridors. You still have to deal with the sniping (I assume with readied actions?), limited spells per day, and the decanter won't help against the molotov coctails or murder holes, not to mention whatever other nasty surprises the Kobolds have in store.
A good start, but you're still dead.
Noob! (joking)
Get more creative.
Spray water in the murder holes on geysir and use cold spells forming ice to block the holes until youre closer, make crossbows break from the cold, kobolds splat on walls, and slip n slide. This leaves only the cocktails which can be pushed back as the alcohol is so diluted by water they won't burn or just plain put out before they hit.
The sniping at this point is only a minor annoyance, nothing 12th level pcs couldn't handle.
The kobolds made a good try of it, but they're still defeated.
Flooding the cave wouldn't be feasible with the large shaft and natural fissues likely below.
Flooding the cave wouldn't be feasible with the large shaft and natural fissues likely below.
Use Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments(DMG s.263[4k gp,minor wondrous item]) or stone shape to skip kobold floor then scout that and block all of the entrances to the floor below kobold and then use Decanter of endless water to flood the kobolds
snip
I was under the impression that the characters would be run by halfway competent individuals.
He conjures it, say, 3 squares away from himself and casts blur. The kobolds have a maximum of 4 hp. Assuming he didn't assign ability scores by chance, he should easily have 16 or more intelligence. Thus at the start of each kobolds turn, they die if they're adjacent to the sphere (1d4 plus int mod damage). Thus he runs through the encounter, spending a move to move either himself or the sphere, minor to sustain, and the ocasional standard to use cloud of daggers to pick off the ones that the sphere can't get to (Asusming a +4 in wisdom). Granted, the kobolds can still try to attack him, but blur gives +2 to all defenses, and total concealment gives them a -5 to hit, assuming they're attacking the right square to begin with. Throw in some wallwalkers and he can be on any given square of the floor, wall or cieling. And for extra lulz, make him a changeling and have him change into a kobold at some point while blurred, so if there are more than the 200 or so kobold you could likely kill in a bottleneck heavy dungeon in 50 turns, you can bluff your way into being ignored until you can take an extended rest.
Edit: Missed the part about the fire from the kobolds, but tiefling wizard , done (Granted, no changeling lulz, but it shouldn't be a problem anyway(Although the idea would be to slaughter the kobolds before they have a chance to trap you)). Alternatively, to keep the changeling lulz going, fire shield.
Regarding the decanter, I assume he meant just flooding the cave from outside.
The thing is, you didn't actually give any instructions
The other thing you fail to realize is you never have line of sight or effect to the kobolds, unless you spend a standard action to ready an action to get them when they pop out of cover. Doing so more than once will prevent them from popping out from the corners, but that was the least of your concerns to begin with. They will never start their turn adjacent to the sphere. You will never kill more than 2 with those tactics. Being quite honest, you will never have the chance to get a direct attack on more than two. They are not trying to kill you by direct assault. Also, they need a 20 anyway to hit you, so any added defenses is kind of irrelevant. Wallwalkers would not take care of the fire on the floor (still end every turn on a horizontal surface), but being a tiefling would. That will get you caught up to the first post of Vampire_Bat. The Molotov Coctails, and the murder holes, still kill you.
snip
Noob! (joking)
Get more creative.
Spray water in the murder holes on geysir and use cold spells forming ice to block the holes until youre closer, make crossbows break from the cold, kobolds splat on walls, and slip n slide. This leaves only the cocktails which can be pushed back as the alcohol is so diluted by water they won't burn or just plain put out before they hit.
The sniping at this point is only a minor annoyance, nothing 12th level pcs couldn't handle.
The kobolds made a good try of it, but they're still defeated.
Flooding the cave wouldn't be feasible with the large shaft and natural fissues likely below.
Creativity is great! I applaud yours. To actually crack this, though, we DO need to stay within the confines of the rules. Cold spells to freeze the water is fine, blocking SOME of the murder holes in ONE of the corridors, but at 12th level, you have 3 castings of (for example) cone of cold, the most efficient spell to perform that feat. It will coat a 60 foot cone, but its limitation in this event is that the corridors are so tight and twisting, that won't get you down even One of the murder-hole-lined-corridors, not all the way at least. Once you run out, what then? (Thus my reference to spells per day being a limiting factor). You can also only target one creature (I'd allow you to target the molotovs as well, though) per round, so multiple molotovs mean Some of them are going to hit. You also haven't put forth Anything about how you're even intending to Find your destination, much less make it there alive. Just running through blindly? Not the best of plans. How long do you think you'll last? Sniping may not be a big deal in individual damage increments, but if you're sitting around for 100+ rounds trying to find the exit, you'll find it adds up quickly enough.
You made a good try of it, but you're still defeated ;-P
Flooding the cave wouldn't be feasible with the large shaft and natural fissues likely below.
Use Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments(DMG s.263[4k gp,minor wondrous item]) or stone shape to skip kobold floor then scout that and block all of the entrances to the floor below kobold and then use Decanter of endless water to flood the kobolds
A good thought! HOW are you going to find all the fissures and cracks, and HOW are you going to block them though?
The other thing you fail to realize is you never have line of sight or effect to the kobolds, unless you spend a standard action to ready an action to get them when they pop out of cover. Doing so more than once will prevent them from popping out from the corners, but that was the least of your concerns to begin with. They will never start their turn adjacent to the sphere. You will never kill more than 2 with those tactics. Being quite honest, you will never have the chance to get a direct attack on more than two. They are not trying to kill you by direct assault. Also, they need a 20 anyway to hit you, so any added defenses is kind of irrelevant. Wallwalkers would not take care of the fire on the floor (still end every turn on a horizontal surface), but being a tiefling would. That will get you caught up to the first post of Vampire_Bat. The Molotov Coctails, and the murder holes, still kill you.
Wallwalkers have a daily power that say "Yeah, **** you gravity" for the rest of the encounter.
Plus fire shield. The article isn't really giving me a clear visual of what's going on, but in that case drop the sphere, just blur, fire shield, cloud of daggers wall walkers, and changeling should do the trick. Transform into a kobold, as soon as you get within 5 squares of a kobold, cloud of daggers him, letting the burst guarantee his death at the start of his turn. Although I don't see anything that says you can't move the sphere vertically so you could really use that as a mobile avatar of death while you were conveniently unseen.
(One additional note- are you counting powers that last until the end of the encounter as lasting for as long as you want them to, until you leave the level? Sorry, but once you kill your first sniper, and are no longer being actively shot at, you are not in combat, so those powers end. And, as they are daily, not encounter powers, they don't come back until an extended rest, and I don't recommend falling asleep in this place....)
Hopefully this will give you better imagery: You're in a corridor filled with sludge 2 feet thick (difficult terrain). A Portcullis drops behind you, sealing you in. The sludge, from around an unseen bend ahead of you, comes ablaze, and you are wrapped in fire. Somehow 10/ turn seems low for standing in the middle of a roaring flame as a low paragon tiefling completely ignores it, but that's what I said and I'm sticking with it, I guess. The passages twist and turn, with random side offshoots that are not ablaze at uneven intervals. Kobolds appear for less than a second, taking a potshot before fading away (they split move and fire- meaning they start their turn in the side passages, move to where line of sight exists, take a shot, then move back into safety before their turn ends. Thus the need for readied actions to kill them, and thus the uselessness of the globe.). You duck into one side passage, and find a solid wall of flame. From the other side, an endless hail of flaming bottles explode at your feet and on the walls around you. Turning back, you find that there is another passageway. Small holes line every surface, and the moment you are 20 feet in, crossbow bolts explode from all the holes, the stray ones catching you unaware. Running along the twists and turns of this murder hole lined corridor, you come to... a giant pit trap. And a dead end. Great. Out of curiosity, you throw a small stick into the bottom of the pit trap, only to find the floor is an illusion as well, and there is a giant set of blades like a meat grinder instead. Perfect. Turning back, you run BACK through the hail of crossbow bolts, and into the river of fire. Their little plinks (stray 20s) have so far exhausted 1/2 your health, so you use a second wind. Only to realize (too late) that you have only explored the second out of seemingly endless side passages from one main corridor of who knows how many, and have not killed a single kobold. (Or, if you readied an action to kill one of the snipers when he appeared, you've killed one, and those are no longer popping up, except when you run. Still, one down.....) You begin to wonder how exactly you plan to find the exit to this hellish place before your health runs out completely.
(One additional note- are you counting powers that last until the end of the encounter as lasting for as long as you want them to, until you leave the level? Sorry, but once you kill your first sniper, and are no longer being actively shot at, you are not in combat, so those powers end. And, as they are daily, not encounter powers, they don't come back until an extended rest, and I don't recommend falling asleep in this place....)
Encounters last five minutes (50 rounds) or until you take an short rest.
So fire shield renders me immune to the fire effectively enough, and wall walkers let me walk on the wall for five minutes. Blur makes me invsibile, but better as long as I maintain some distance. So I change into a kobold while blurred, then follow the kobold into his hidey hole and murder him with cloud of daggers. Then around 45 turns into the fight, if I haven't slaughtered them all yet, use breaching armor to get out of the portcullis, and either retreat from the dungeon to regroup or hide among the other kobolds until I can take an etended rest.
Just because cone of cold is the most efficient, it doesn't mean noone has explored other elements- simply convering fireball into one that does cold damage for instance
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elemental_Affinity...(3.5e_Feat)
For instance. (and perfect for a water specializing sorcerer)
Note also a 12th level sorcerer can have plent of sleep spells (which are hilarious vs kobolds). I can also note that a sorcer with a charisman of 10 has 5 castings of cone a cold a day - thats without stat mod. With a 20-21 depending on where you put your 4th 8th and 12th level stat bump, you have 6. and 7 fire(cold)balls, not to mention other pells that do an element type.
Throw in 1 decanter per character as it is rather cheap as an item, other misc. magic items, and you have the encounter beaten.
Survive long enough to get to the pit, not completely focussed on the kobolds (decanters work great alot), and you can rest on the lower levels before coming back up.
Of course the biggest problem with Tucker's kobolds as generally presented is the finite amount of oxygen in the air in a tunnel system. As most firefighters know, it's not usually the fire that kills the victims of a fire, it's smoke inhalation and suffocation. The easiest way to defeat Tucker's kobolds is to just set off their fire traps and head back to the surface while the fires burn all the oxygen in the lair away and the kobolds all suffocate.
That's not very satisfying though, and since this is a fantasy world we can suppose that the lair includes some magical source of infinite air generation and powerful ventilation systems that will replenish the oxygen as the fires burn, although why a bunch of lowly kobolds would have that sort of technology or magic is somewhat problematical.
So we'll assume that the fires will burn but the kobolds won't suffocate. There are several sources of potential damage in the scenario as I understand it. I'll list each one with a way to deal with it:
For the 3.5 version (and probably would work for 2e as well)...
1. Fire damage. A few scrolls of fire resistance should deal with this if you can't cast the spell yourself. At level 7 the spell will last for 70 minutes. You might have to cast a few of them. Fire doesn't do that much damage per round, and if you can get fire resistance higher than the damage the fire does, then you can literally ignore the fire. You might want an Ioun stone to allow you to breathe in case someone tries to suggest that although the kobolds have an infinite supply of air, you do not. Well with an Ioun stone, you do. At seventh level a resist energy: fire spell provides fire damage reduction of 20. Should be more than enough for normal fire.
2. Damage from the kobolds. Well, kobold crossbows can only do a maximum of 6 damage I believe. If your AC is sufficiently high enough, they can't crit you, their crits will only hit you. The second level spell "protection from arrows" provides damage reduction of 20 for all normal projectiles, which should keep you from feeling anythign the kobolds hurl or fire at you. At level 7 that will last 7 hours. Maybe you'll have to cast it twice.
3. Falling down a trap. You may have to bring a wand of levitate in with you if you can't cast the spell yourself. One wand has fifty charges, so you should have plenty of chance to just waltz across the traps that depend on your falling. To be sure you don't fall into a trap before you can cast levitate, you might want a ring of feather falling so you can cast levitate as soon as you start to fall.
4. If you want to make things easier for yourself, bring a wand of burning hands with you or something so you can torch the little bastards without exhausting your own spells.
A level seven spellcaster should have no problem handling the kobolds. If you're worried about hand to hand damage, wear some adamantine armor.
1) fire damage: a coule of casters preparing mass resist energy should give the whole party a few hours of immunity to non-magical fires (Resist Fire 20 for a 12th level caster IIRC).
2) normal damage: you can take several approaces here: adamantine armor (DR 5), stoneskin (DR 10), or jsut take an warforged with Adamantine body and stack Improved DR feat 4 times (DR 6).
All of these should keep you pretty safe from 1d6 damage small crossbows. ot too mention you should have enough AC to only be hit on nat 20.
EDIT: Crap, missed Brassbaboon's post that pretty much said exactly the same thing.
Silly me.
Baboon and yours are also great, as well as tactics that would aid on any dungeon journey, not just this one encounter.
Could take whatever else along but my party would prob be like one mentioned below.
With Earth Glide an Earth Elemental can safely scout out and help map the whole area including being able to discover most traps. At worst the Elemental can just trigger one time ones and take the hit.
An 8th level party of my Malconvoker, a Psychic warrior (charge build), a Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor and a Rogue pretty much wrecked the reprinted Tomb of Horror with this set-up and tactics. Being able to from a distance discover just about any trap or danger in the area and map the tunnels including any secret passages pretty much ruins the advantage's Tuckers Kobolds have (which is an area designed by them to their benefit)
Tucker's Kobolds are dangerous because they know the battlefield, only engage when it is beneficial and use traps to wear down the party and use up their resources.
At the level given it is simple to have decent fire resist in 3.5 so even if Kobold's charged chucking Molotovs wouldn't be to much a risk and Resist Fire is such a common resist to have since it is most common damage type.
Honestly when I first read Tucker's Kobolds they always struck me as a DM's revenge monster. I am not one to not make dangerous monsters that use tactics but the way the story is told they had every advantage and it seemed like everything the party tried had been planned for /shrug
So if it was say in 4th ed and I was playing I would just hope the DM actually made balanced encounters based on the terrain advantage and traps/hazards.
With Earth Glide an Earth Elemental can safely scout out and help map the whole area including being able to discover most traps. At worst the Elemental can just trigger one time ones and take the hit.
Masonry= no he can't
Also, the cunning kobolds would use traps and defenses that would far exceed simple pitfalls; they would include spring launched weapons, simple posions, acid vials, tanglefoot bags, mudane darkness, floods, cave ins, Small sized side tunnels with hidden doors barred from the other side, plaster covered murder holes (that could be broken through suddenly for suprise), suffocation (small creatures are close to the ground=get cleaner air), suprise portcullis traps that seperate the party, magma floods (if your DM likes Dwarf Fortress) ,etc.
Using my 3.5 level twelve dwarf wizard with his standard dungeon spell list:
I would use Energy Resistance (Fire) and Stone Body to negate the damage. Then Phantom Steed (240' move speed, 480' double move, only touching the ground at the end of each move) until I was surprised by the murder holes. I would then put my finger in the murder holes and cast Fireball. If I still had my Steed, I'd continue like that until my I cast all four of my fireballs (counting one use of Mordenkainen’s Lucubration) and my one Confusion Spell. Maybe I'd use Polymorph to become a Kobold (make them hesitate before attacking me) and then use Disintegrate to break into the side tunnels (where the murder holes reveal them to be located). Assuming there aren't redundant side tunnels for the side tunnels, I would continue traveling using their tunnels (using my one Lightning and two Scorching Rays on any Kobolds I see) to avoid traps and ambushes. I could start leading my wizard with a Minor Image to pre-spring ambushes, but that would only help so much. I could also use my one Wall of Stone spell to seal over the murder holes of a corridor, but that wouldn’t kill anything.
My Energy Resistance would last 2 hours but Stone Body and Polymorph would only last 12 minutes so I'd likely have to bug out with Dimension Door after that or be progressively more and more hurt by traps and crossbows (my AC is only 15 but I have 90 HP and high reflex saves so I'd last a bit). My one Greater Invisibility spell would only protect me for 12 rounds (if I didn't use it at the beginning) and I'd reserve my last offensive spell (G.Fireburst) in case I ran into something nasty.
I think I'd last 12-15 minutes and I definitely wouldn't be able to clear the dungeon.
Even with a full party, the cramped side passages would block any attempt to chase/hunt the kobolds and traps would either seriously hurt us or make us constantly search for them (slowing us down and running out our buffs). Any successful fights on our part would only kill a few of them or breach a few tunnels and attrition would wear us down before it wears them down.
The only real solution is to send the Bard in and let her Diplomacy them into peace.
Brilliant.
I'll take a naked 12th level wizard down there. Like this.
Mage Armor (1st) - Lasts for 12 hours. AC=14 now.
Shield (1st) - Cast situationally, 12 minutes at a time, AC=18. With the extend spell feat, it's 24 minutes each casting. (Or a 3,000g rod of metamagic: lesser extend).
Protection from arrows (2nd) - Damage reduction 10 for 12 hours or until you've reduced 120 hit points of damage. That's roughly 40 crossbow bolts. A standard kobold has a +3 to ranged attacks, meaning they'd need to roll a 15 or better to hit my naked form if I'm shielded. So that's 30% of the time, so they'll have to shoot 125 or so bolts at me to wear out my protection, and I can always cast more, it's just a second level spell. I can cast five of them. I probably only need two, if that.
Stoneskin (4th) - Damage reduction 10 for 12 hours against melee attacks. This is a level 4 spell, and I only have four of those, assuming an int of 18 at least. This is even better than Protection from arrows because kobolds only have a +1 to hit in melee, meaning they're gonna have to take 180 attacks or so, and they can only attack when adjacent, so one casting of this will likely last the whole lair cleansing.
Resist Energy: Fire (2nd) - 30 fire resistance for 2 hours. This is pretty much a get out of fire free spell.
Gaseous form: (3rd) - This is an awesome spell. Let's say my wizard has "silent spell" and "still spell" as feats (or, if clothed and equipped, as "rods of metamagic"). Now he can cast burning hands while in gaseous form, so he can ooze through the murder holes and blast the little suckers with impunity. PLUS it provides damage reduction 10/magic. AND you can fly! And that's not all! It lasts 2 min/level or 24 minutes per casting.
So I've used up 2 first level (maybe more if I have to recast shield), 2 second level, 1 third level and 1 fourth level spell. So I've still got the majority of spells left to do damage. And that's ignoring the use of wands like "burning hands" or "magic missile" that would be dirt cheap to a 12th level wizard.
I mean from here on out, it's just a question of how much fun you want to have while you wipe them out.
5d6 damage will kill any of them, even if they make their save.
If you see a portcullis, block it before you move under it. If you see thick sludge, light it on fire. Wait for it to burn out.
The main reason these Kobolds are so dangerous is because they were prepared, and the players were not. If you know what you're dealing with, you'll cut straight through them.
Assuming we know what we're fighting against, why don't we just make a few constructs? I don't know the exact rules for them, but I know enough that they don't breathe and follow their master's orders. Why not just make a dozen or so and send them in?
Second option, call in the cavalry. If you have the backing of a country, ask them for help and invade. It may not be the cleanest as you now have a full-scale war occurring in unfavourable conditions, but hey, you now have an extra couple thousand troops to help you with the fight.
@BrassBaboon
AC Buffs: Acid, fire, traps
Protection from Arrows: Attrition+ Acid, Fire, traps
Stoneskin: Attrition + Acid, Fire, Traps
Resist Energy: You're going to take damage of each type before you realize you should to cast the spell, and you are unlikely to prepare two Resist Energy spells per day.
Gaseous Form: Magic Items don't work while this spell is active, and without them you're burning through 6th level spell slots just to use 4th level spells. You'd also have to have the stilled and silent spells prepared in advance as such, using your higher level slots, before entering the dungeon and becoming aware of the threat. Also doesn't make you immune to fire and acid (and if you haven't cast Resist Energy before becoming Gaseous you would need to change back to cast it).
Wands of Magic Missile and Burning Hands: Hemorrhaging 15gp per Kobold, as each charge would only kill one and there are scores of them, also magic missiles would only kill every other kobold and Burning Hands requires that you get next to them.
The attrition of offensive spells would wear you out much faster than it would wear out the Kobolds, as area of effect spells would only net 3-6 Kobolds per casting and there are so many of them spread so far out in such a large set of tunnels.
Using Levitate to circumvent traps: You’d have to predict the traps in advance and you can’t Levitate and walk forward at the same time. Also, there are a lot of simple traps that don’t involve pits.
If a level 7 wizard tried this dungeon in one go, he’d die rather fast. He’d be casting protections after taking damage from each source (fire, acid, bolts, traps), and common wizards have few hit points. He wouldn’t have as many spells as there are kobolds, and they’d spread out and attack from cover, so Fireball would only get a few at a time.
@Pluisjen
Wand of Fireball: Cost you 225gp per use (11,250gp/50 charges) but would only kill 3-6 Kobolds at a time; you’d never recover that much from Kobold treasure making this option pointlessly expensive.
Block Portcullises: You wouldn't see them coming without trapfinding, which requires time (lots) which causes your buffs to run out.
Preemptively light sludge on fire: Costly in time= Buffs run out
@Everyone
This is, as described, an ambush which means you don't "...know what you're dealing with..." and thus can't "...cut straight through them."
I still think the Bard is the only viable option. (or flooding the dungeon, but that seems like cheating)
Had the question been "how would you fight Tucker's Kobolds if you didn't know you were fighting Tucker's kobolds?" My response would have been. "I dunno, I guess it would depend entirely on what random spells I happened to have memorized and what random gear I happened to be wearing."
I had a long response but decided your entire response boiled down to this fundamental misunderstanding of what the exercise actually was.
@Everyone
This is, as described, an ambush which means you don't "...know what you're dealing with..." and thus can't "...cut straight through them."
I still think the Bard is the only viable option. (or flooding the dungeon, but that seems like cheating)
It's not really an ambush though, even in the story that 'Tucker's Kobolds' is based on, the rest of the party KNEW they were there and were somewhat familiar with how they operated. Also note, that no PC died to the kobolds in this story (just the hirelings, henchmen, and donkeys).
On a side note. I'm pretty sure that this party probably HAS tried to exterminate the lot of them, only to be subverted by the GM arbitrarily adding more. It's not like he would ever let them know how many of them were actually present at any give time and I doubt there ever was a set number to them.
In the end it pretty much boils down to a GM knowing what his players were up to, what they were prepared for, and knowing that they really didn't want to waste their time with Kobolds and would never take the time to systematically destroy them because they wanted to fight the bigger stuff on level 10. And even if they did, so what? He'd just add a million more for the next session.
If you would draw your attention to the actual prompt, you would see the words "said scenario" (which includes the aspect of an ambush) and a specific reference prohibiting optimization for the encounter based on your knowledge of Tucker’s Kobolds. The question posed is: how would you respond as players if you had to suddenly face Tucker’s Kobolds with a level 12 party. Nor only is it not described as “how would you plan/optimize a character/party to fight Tucker’s Kobolds.” GMBeaulac explicitly stated “…that this scenario would not exist in a bubble, but in the context of an overall campaign.” and not to “…optimize a party of characters to deal with this, and only this, scenario…”
It is true that in the scenario it is not a full ambush as the party expects to fight Tucker’s Kobolds on the first level, but they don’t know what the Kobolds are going to do before they do it and they didn’t expect the floor to light on fire.
There is no mention of the GM “adding more” and the exercise becomes somewhat pointless if he does as it would be extremely unfair (and any GM that would add endless Kobolds just to annoy players would be a crappy one) , like having a monster with infinite HP. It would make more sense to assume that the GM has some Kobold population number between 300-500 that he tallies from(which would make logistical sense, as long as they have food sources).
Tucker’s Kobolds aren’t a challenge for players because the players don’t want to waste their time, they are far harder to fight than large, easily targeted, strong opponents that are more susceptible to instant death/disability attacks and battlefield control. The Kobolds are scary because their strength is so spread out it is hard for the PCs to fight them effectively.
Also, if you read the article, the players were terrified of fighting Tucker’s Kobolds for any longer than they had to because of how hard they were to fight, they would rather fight Pit Fiends than Kobolds.
If that twelth level party really wanted to gun these Kobolds and prepared to do so, I doubt there is a way the GM could stop them with out cheating and adding more kobolds. The point is they wouldn't, because there is absolutely no reward for them to kill off this annoyance because in the end they had no treasure (to get their own back, odds are they'd have to belly crawl through miles of tunnel by the sounds of it), and were absolutely worthless as far as xp went. To them, it was easier to just deal with them on the way down, and then teleport their way out of the place when they wanted to leave. It wasn't worth their time or effort and they'd rather fight the pitfiends because at least then there'd be some reward.
We proceeded, over the course of the next three weekends, to kick some righteous tail.
Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY had a ranged weapon and at least 100 bolts/arrows. The ranger had 500+. We were fortunate enough to run into a kobold scouting party in the fringes of the dungeon. They tried playing toll collector, we told them it was too steep, and we had a fight on our hands.
The ranger and wizard agreed that where there's 5 kobolds, there's probably 500.
We advanced in what could best be described as Tomb of Horrors style. Nobody moves until the rogue and ranger both agree that the way ahead is safe for the next 10 feet, and they've scouted as best as possible for the next 100 feet. While they're doing that, the other three party members have a ready action with their ranged weapons at the corridor(s) ahead. Movement is by buddy teams- while one person moves, another person covers. Except when spotting, the rogue and ranger cover the rest of the party, then move individually.
Finding a side corridor and murder holes meant it was time to pause for a few hours and go right through the wall via non-magical methods, though the +1 flaming warhammer, held in both hands by the strongest PC, was certainly useful.
After three sessions and countless 'encounters', we wound up confronting a level 5 kobold sorcerer behind an iron door. The leader of this insane band of kobolds told us we could either go away, or die horribly. We pointed out that he'd been trying to do that for the last two weeks, and the result was about 200 dead kobolds. All we were down here to do was find some stupid Lathander-worshipping Waterdhavian kobold who was probably dead by now.
That's when we found out he was being held in the tribe's dungeon. We made a really, really simple bargain. We don't spend the rest of the month killing him and his entire tribe, and we leave the tribe alone from now on. In exchange, we get the prisoner.
Afterwards, we made friends with the remaining kobolds, convinced them to man an 'Adventurer's Rest' pit-stop, gave them some tactical pointers so they could be even meaner, and split the profits 50/50 in exchange for keeping them supplied from Bags of Holding. Instead of defending themselves from adventurers, they got to make the adventurers give them shinies all day long.
I'm a sparkling, silver, really hard to kill winged angel who can see in the dark as well as the kobolds or better.
Then I'd tell the LA+2 some-kinda-tiny-flying-sprite wizard and half-dragon (gold), half-ogre fighter that we need that door behind us down, now. I don't care how the two of them do it, it just needs to be gone. Either do a quick 40 damage each, or the fighter can drop it with a sheer strength check.
While they're doing that, I'll use my last divine metamagicked persistent spell to cast Vigorous Circle on everybody for 3 fast healing per round. We have 24 hours where if you get hurt by your average kobold, you need to wait about 6 seconds for the pain to go away.
If the wizard needs a place to rest, he can cast a Rope Trick. Better yet, he should do that now, and everybody else can climb inside to wait out the carnage, flames and general chaos.
Finally, I'll pull out my favorite mid-level toys: Adamantine Tiny Animated Objects- Army Men! They're armed with itty-bitty greatswords. One shoulder has a quartz-faced bullseye lantern with a Glowing Orb (120' bright illumination, 60 degree cone) inside, while the top of the head has a Continual Flame cast on it for 20' illumination in all directions. Last but not least, they wear roller skates for 80' movement. As long as you can do 22 damage in a single attack, you can kill it. Good luck with that, kobolds. If you can't, they're going to be jumping through the holes into the side passages, and with that movement speed they're going to act like miniature Terminators against whatever is inside. I wonder if giving them tiny repeating crossbows would be overkill?
Now the Army Men, the fighter and I can go clean this place up. The fire-immune fighter can rip apart most obstacles with pure strength, the Army Men are going to seek and destroy anything that dares show its head for even long enough to get off a crossbow bolt, and I'll be providing magical backup for everybody. Tucker's Kobolds are toast.
The scenario was part of a general uprising of kobolds, goblins and other miscreants to take back ancestral homes that humans, halflings and gnomes had invaded and "settled" a few generations back. Clearing out the kobold lair was literally the first quest the level 1 party took on.
I was pretty brutal too. The floors were covered with oil and straw, which the kobolds lit on fire as the party moved through them, there were multiple murder-hole sections where crossbow bolts blasted the party, traps were everywhere, pit traps, crossbow traps, falling stone traps, even a magical trap or two.
But I played it dead straight as the DM. The lair had a set number of kobolds to defend it, and I didn't create new ones just to make it harder. The kobolds were not fearless and on occasion had to make will saves to overcome their own terror as the party managed to wreak havoc on groups of kobolds.
Overall the party spent a total of about six "days" inside the lair. They leveled up to level 3 in the process of clearing out the lair, and they saved a group of prisoners who were inside.
My favorite part of the invasion of the lair is when the party managed to capture the kobold prison and torture room, and decided it was the most defensible place to rest and regain spells. The kobolds made their lives hell, keeping them from sleeping by pounding on the door and sending in swarms of rats or beetles.
But my goal wasn't to arbitrarily defeat and demotivate the party, and since the kobolds were limited in number and resources, they eventually did defeat them.
I used that scenario specifically to teach the players how to play. In that lair they learned how to manage their resources (including simple things like food and water), learned how to synergize their abilities, learned how to trust each other, and learned their own strengths and weaknesses. They also learned a lot about tactics from watching the kobolds perform them.
It remains one of the highlights of our gaming experiences years later, and to this day when they see kobolds, they will groan and ask each other "do we HAVE to fight them?"
1. Deep Dwarf Druid (my char): always had a mass resist energy and a stoneskin prepared. can wildhsape into a flying creatore to avoid burning floors/pit traps. Can summon greenbound animals through the murder holes (greenbound summons are pretty much immune to kobolds due to DR 10/magic). I can summon over 40 lvl 1 animals, and assuming each one finds and kills 2 kobolds before the summon expires, that's at least 80 kobolds dead, withut counting their Wall of Thorns ability. Also, Boreal Wind could be a very useful spell in this situation, pretty much killng everything along straight corridors. so that's around 100 dead kobolds for the druid.
2. Raptoran cleric. Also flying , had Travel domain so he could teleport the party out any time and lots of Lesser vigor wands. Also, Wall of Sand for the time the party really wanted to cut some kobolds off....not very useful in this situation with his typical spell selection. Kobolds killed? don't know, maybe 10-20 with his own crossbow and Fleshrippers.
3. Dragonborn grey elf Wizard/ Initiate of the 7thfold veil. He had some battlefield control spells (Cloudkill, Evard's Black Tentacles) he could kill some kobolds with, some save-or-die (not worth wasting on a Kobold) his own crossbow. Main use would be another Mass Resist Energy and Teleport. Let's say another 20 kobolds dead.
4. Gray Elf Psion. Main weapon vs these Kobolds. Can cast at least 30-40 non augmented Energy Ball: Fire, dealing 5d6+5 damage, enough to kill a kobold even if he makes his save. Assuming a minimum of 3 Kobolds caught in each blast, that's another 100-120 kobolds dead.
5. Gnome Beguiler/ Shadowcraft Mage. Great Search and Disable Device scores, can find pretty much any non magical trap, also can mimc fireball on all his 3rd level or higher spell slots and also 1 fireball for each 2 2nd level spellslots due to versatile spellcaster. think's that's at least 10 more fireballs,so at least 30 more dead Kobolds.
This party can not only kill 250+ Kobolds with their typical adventuring spell selection, but, at any time the Kobold decide they want more can teleport somewhere out of the reach of the Kobolds, rest 8 hours, switch to fully anti-kobold spells and teleport back.
I would simply ask why/how all the kobolds were always in perfect position to counter me and never slept/ate or got bored and tired of staring through tiny holes in the wall :P
If you have enough kobolds, they man the defenses in shifts, just like in the real world army.
That's why wearing the kobolds down helps the PCs, eventually there aren't enough left to man all the defenses, and kobolds have to sleep too. In my case with my own kobold lair campaign, the kobolds and players ended up holding different parts of the lair for long periods of times, using barricades, jammed doors, etc. to keep the enemy away while they took rest periods. On occasion the kobolds were able to surprise the party by using secret passages the party had not yet discovered. Was fun.
You can get pretty creative with this, and using the fatigue and exhaustion rules can either create a sense of realism, or drive the players crazy, depending on how you do it.
Teleport.
or to actually combat them...
protection from arrows and resist energy. ignore their ranged nonsense and fire. close to melee and open them up. also Magic missile to killa few a round.
everyone else should be active because they have damage resistance.closing to melee, stabbing thru murder holes, summoning creatures into murderholes... ect...
Also, LoL at Donkey trap.
@Everyone
This is, as described, an ambush which means you don't "...know what you're dealing with..." and thus can't "...cut straight through them."
I still think the Bard is the only viable option. (or flooding the dungeon, but that seems like cheating)
Aye, It is, but this is all assuming that you ran blindly ahead into that area in the first place [no matter what level you are, that's a mistake]. If you have endure elements it's always a good idea to have at least two casting availible to you [granted that it's a lower level spell] I would be willing to say more, but I can't really say what I would have without more information about why I'm there in the first place. If I know anything in advance I always make sure that I have every scrap of information I can find on the place, any inhabitants known, and what I'd be dealing with. Assuming that I didn't know what was there I would try and select spells for just about any situation. [meaning that I might not be able to cast as many times of the same spell] Then again, I don't have a lvl 12 character made right now, let alone a group, so I really don't know exactly how I'd handle it.
With my current level 11 party, we probably wouldn't even bother slowing down much. I'd sigh and pull off my Hat of Disguise, revealing the effects of Visage of the Deity (shiny, metallic, smite evil 1x/day, darkvision 60 feet, resistance to acid, cold, electricity 20, DR 10/magic, SR 20) and Lesser Holy Transformation (+2 sacred bonus to STR and CON, fly 60, darkvision 60, +2 sacred bonus to saves) that I'd persisted earlier with divine metamagic. I'm a sparkling, silver, really hard to kill winged angel who can see in the dark as well as the kobolds or better. Then I'd tell the LA+2 some-kinda-tiny-flying-sprite wizard and half-dragon (gold), half-ogre fighter that we need that door behind us down, now. I don't care how the two of them do it, it just needs to be gone. Either do a quick 40 damage each, or the fighter can drop it with a sheer strength check. While they're doing that, I'll use my last divine metamagicked persistent spell to cast Vigorous Circle on everybody for 3 fast healing per round. We have 24 hours where if you get hurt by your average kobold, you need to wait about 6 seconds for the pain to go away. If the wizard needs a place to rest, he can cast a Rope Trick. Better yet, he should do that now, and everybody else can climb inside to wait out the carnage, flames and general chaos. Finally, I'll pull out my favorite mid-level toys: Adamantine Tiny Animated Objects- Army Men! They're armed with itty-bitty greatswords. One shoulder has a quartz-faced bullseye lantern with a Glowing Orb (120' bright illumination, 60 degree cone) inside, while the top of the head has a Continual Flame cast on it for 20' illumination in all directions. Last but not least, they wear roller skates for 80' movement. As long as you can do 22 damage in a single attack, you can kill it. Good luck with that, kobolds. If you can't, they're going to be jumping through the holes into the side passages, and with that movement speed they're going to act like miniature Terminators against whatever is inside. I wonder if giving them tiny repeating crossbows would be overkill? Now the Army Men, the fighter and I can go clean this place up. The fire-immune fighter can rip apart most obstacles with pure strength, the Army Men are going to seek and destroy anything that dares show its head for even long enough to get off a crossbow bolt, and I'll be providing magical backup for everybody. Tucker's Kobolds are toast.
I must respond to this by correcting the several 3.5 rule violations you used:
- Hat of Disguise does not cause a continuous Disguise Self effect, but rather a 1 minute duration command word activated Disguise Self effect.
- Maintaining high level buffs (that ordinarily have durations of round/level) permanently using Divine Metamagic and Persistent spell (which was intended to only be applicable for 3rd level and lower spells) is ¾ of the way to Pun Pun silliness and I don’t know any Dungeon Masters who would allow it.
- Only spells that have a “personal” or “fixed” range can be made Persistent and the Vigor and Mass Vigor spells specifically target other creatures, ergo you can never make any Vigor spells Persistent regardless. So your party can’t have infinite fast heal 3.
Your animated objects require their own section:
- Animated Objects must be directed to attack a specific target, with a move action on your part, so they would only be effective when you have line of sight and you can afford to spend move actions pointing. They also can’t be programmed or given contingent directions in any way.
- A lantern is nearly the size of a Tiny creature, so how you were able to make one into the shoulder of Tiny construct is beyond me (and I always envisioned Glowing Orb as Tiny sized as well, but its size is never described in book).
- Tiny sized roller-skates are both questionable in terms of possibility of creation and a clear attempt to abuse the animate object rules. It’d be different if you were making tiny carts or something, but tiny roller-skates are an anachronism, incredibly difficult to make in that time period even if your character did think of them, and they are clearly tacked on to something without wheels just for the sake of move speed.
- Animate Objects only lasts a round/level or costs 3,000 experience per object to be made permanent with Permanency; you’d either burn some levels or only have your tiny warriors for a short time.
- Tiny constructs would be too large to fit though a standard murder hole, as murder holes are even smaller than an ordinary arrow slit.
You might want to read the spell descriptions next time...
Rope Trick would definitely allow you to rest unmolested, and assuming the Kobolds didn’t see you cast the spell and climb the rope (which would require climb checks or flying spells to do) it would be almost impossible for them to find it. I didn’t think of that before though I use it regularly. If they did see you, they'd wait until you're asleep and fill the hall with smoke (which would quickly collect inside the space).
Without your Animated Objects and Persistent Mass Vigor spells your party would suffer from all the obstacles I’ve described before.
Maintaining high level buffs (that ordinarily have durations of round/level) permanently using Divine Metamagic and Persistent spell (which was intended to only be applicable for 3rd level and lower spells) is ¾ of the way to Pun Pun silliness and I don’t know any Dungeon Masters who would allow it.
Actually, the sillyness is allowing night sticks to stack, therefore enabling a cleric to persist as many spells as he feels like.
I don't think Divine Metamagic: Persistent is broken, and I played in quite a few games with DMM clerics. Look at it this way: for an average cleric (12-14 starting cha) you need 3 feats (Extend spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent) and either a 4th feat (Extra turning) or a Nightstick or a Cloak of Cha +4 or +6 to be able to persist 1 spell a day. For persisting 2 spells, you need to add 2 more Extra Turning feats(and some stat bumps into Cha). Spending most of your feats on something that the enemy can simply dispel seems hardly broken to me.
If for some reason they do spot him, he can still be relatively safe if he has taken Fey Skin and the other Fey Heritage feats. This will make his DR around 6 or 7 cold iron (don't have the books infront of me, but I know it's at least 6 due to Feyskin), which should be more than enough to shrug off the odd strikes that get through his AC, he'll have natural energy resistance to counter the fire, and can enter Fiendish Resilience to gain fast healing if he does start to dwindle on HP. And aside from the afore mentioned at will invisibility and flight. He can use vitriolic blast to melt what ever obstacle that they put before him and keep on going with out skipping beat.
And then, there is the plethora of magic items he'll be able to use through his naturally high UMD check and the fact that he can always take 10 on it regardless of what's around him. He can easily have scrolls/wands of energy resistance, cloudkill, summon monster or what ever else that one might normally be carrying with them on an adventuring expedition.
- Dwarven Dreadnought (currently lvl 22, so down him to lvl 12). resistance & temp hp are his middle name. I really don't forsee a problem. Destroy the wall using invigerating attacks (and my frost hammer :D ) , together with resist 5 or 10 (all) and about 15 temp hp per round
- Eladrin wizard (lvl 8) cast area spell on barbarian, which allows me to teleport the barbarian behind the firy line of derbiss. Use cloud of daggers & flaming sphere to clear the kobolds behind the walls.
Stand against the wall between 2 arrow slids and cast flaming sphere in the murderhole above me. cloud of dagger the goblins in arrowslids
- fey pact warlock (lvl 10): kill kobold. (rod of reaving // power) and teleport behind the walls*. gain concealment. hide. Rinse and repeat
*: here he can also use the encounter power that allows him to switch places with an ally.
I must respond to this by correcting the several 3.5 rule violations you used:
- Hat of Disguise does not cause a continuous Disguise Self effect, but rather a 1 minute duration command word activated Disguise Self effect.
- Maintaining high level buffs (that ordinarily have durations of round/level) permanently using Divine Metamagic and Persistent spell (which was intended to only be applicable for 3rd level and lower spells) is ¾ of the way to Pun Pun silliness and I don’t know any Dungeon Masters who would allow it.
- Only spells that have a “personal” or “fixed” range can be made Persistent and the Vigor and Mass Vigor spells specifically target other creatures, ergo you can never make any Vigor spells Persistent regardless. So your party can’t have infinite fast heal 3.
Your animated objects require their own section:
- Animated Objects must be directed to attack a specific target, with a move action on your part, so they would only be effective when you have line of sight and you can afford to spend move actions pointing. They also can’t be programmed or given contingent directions in any way.
- A lantern is nearly the size of a Tiny creature, so how you were able to make one into the shoulder of Tiny construct is beyond me (and I always envisioned Glowing Orb as Tiny sized as well, but its size is never described in book).
- Tiny sized roller-skates are both questionable in terms of possibility of creation and a clear attempt to abuse the animate object rules. It’d be different if you were making tiny carts or something, but tiny roller-skates are an anachronism, incredibly difficult to make in that time period even if your character did think of them, and they are clearly tacked on to something without wheels just for the sake of move speed.
- Animate Objects only lasts a round/level or costs 3,000 experience per object to be made permanent with Permanency; you’d either burn some levels or only have your tiny warriors for a short time.
- Tiny constructs would be too large to fit though a standard murder hole, as murder holes are even smaller than an ordinary arrow slit.
You might want to read the spell descriptions next time...
Rope Trick would definitely allow you to rest unmolested, and assuming the Kobolds didn’t see you cast the spell and climb the rope (which would require climb checks or flying spells to do) it would be almost impossible for them to find it. I didn’t think of that before though I use it regularly. If they did see you, they'd wait until you're asleep and fill the hall with smoke (which would quickly collect inside the space).
Without your Animated Objects and Persistent Mass Vigor spells your party would suffer from all the obstacles I’ve described before.
Going down the list in sequence...
1. Hat of Disguise, per the d20 SRD:
Hat of Disguise
This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, and so on.
So let's look at the disguise self spell from the same source:
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
As soon as someone shakes my hand, helps me up after a stumble, or hands me a dress that's perfectly sized for my illusion but I have a little trouble getting into (come on, like you wouldn't!), it's time for saving throws. I don't see where this 1 minute Disguise Self comes from. It looks like you use it, and you're disguised. If necessary, every ten minutes I guess I could keep mumbling something under my breath. "By Pelor's Grace" sounds like a good command word for an incognito cleric, don't you think?
2. With the 16 starting Charisma on this character, a +6 cloak, Extra Turning and my first nightstick, I'm looking at 3+3+3+4+4= 17 turning attempts per day. With all those turn attempts and the high charisma, I'm giving serious thought to Radiant Servant of Pelor and becoming an undead-stomping machine. For the most part when I have all that stuff persisted, I hang back, do the medic thing, and let the other characters go get beat up and kill stuff. When something DOES try to come after the healer, the other players get to be the hero and save me. In my current game, I think one of the five other people realizes I could quite possibly take on the rest of the party and win. The rest are happy to have someone who enjoys playing the healer and doesn't need to be watched too closely. I'm good with that.
I keep a real easy understanding with most of my DMs anyway. They don't pull out any deus ex machina, Mary Sue DMPCs, or over the top railroading, and I don't go for game-breaking spellcombos or make choo-choo noises. In exchange, I get to play classes other than Expert or Aristocrat. Works for me.
3. Instead of a range of Short, Medium or Long, or even X feet per caster level, Vigorous Circle has a range of 20 feet. Period. That sounds pretty darn fixed, so I'm not seeing why it can't be Persisted.
On to the Army Men!
1. You're absolutely right! Fortunately, most DMs are willing to go by common sense- if someone or something starts to attack an Animated Object (and most things WILL attack something like this, including other players), the Animated Object will attack them right back. However, by the rules as written, "go down that hallway!" could result in them going down that hallway to the end, standing there, and getting attacked for the next hour until the kobolds either give up, or pick it up to drop on top of their treasure stash.
2. Actually, the Spell Compendium is kind enough to describe this one! "This spell places a magical light source inside a glass sphere roughly the size of a human fist". For this trick you need to let the real world trickle in a bit. A lantern is nothing but a lamp with a reflector, sheltered wick, and lens. So, make yourself a polished cone a tiny bit larger than a human fist, fit a polished quartz lens over it, and viola! A bullseye lantern for a glowing orb! Can be turned up or down mentally so long as the lantern is inside 30 feet!
If your DM is looking at you with that 'Not again' expression, or wants to say it's still too big, you can compromise. Cast Continual Flame on a pebble and stick that in an appropriately-sized focusing device.
3. Oh, it's a very, very clear abuse of the rules. Roller skates? Big-time Craft DCs. I have made things, part by part, that make my DM beat his head against the table when it finally gets assembled. APCs? Flying carpet based ground-attack helicopters? Self-heating frying pans? Putting a silver winged elf maiden leaning forward as a 'figurehead' on our animated wagon was just tempting fate though.
I'm also willing to go along with whatever my DM chooses to do with my toys. Rubble? They're stopped until the Fighter throws them over it. And that's not even getting into what happened when I sent one over a bridge that was greased. The DM made these cute little Star Wars droid noises as the poor thing realized what was going on, then went straight for the edge and right over a seemingly endless drop.
4. Also right. I can only have a handful of them, and that's if I'm really, really nice to the wizard. Being willing to give up my XP, if the DM allows that variant rule, helps too. So does pouring gold on the wizard. But they're fun, and they're worth it.
5. Ahh, okay. So we're not looking at the standard 12" by 12" or so murder hole that you see in castles? Heck, if we're looking at a teeny little 3" or so hole that's just big enough to get an arrow through, all you'd have to do is make the Spot check to see it, then stoop a little to avoid getting hit. Angling it down while shooting through a foot of rock is going to be hard for the little guys.
I appreciate your suggestion to reread the spell descriptions. Doing so lets you realize just how fun it is to make the spells interact with each other. For instance, when I reread Rope Trick just now, it confirmed that you can pull the rope up after you, and the extradimensional space is invisible from the outside. Unless the kobolds stuck around in the corridor they just lit on fire, as far as they know the party hustled out the door they broke down.
Since the party is only going up there to heal any damage they got while the wizard and fighter snapped the door in half, they'll be fine hanging out, playing cards and making side bets while the fighter and cleric go stomp some kobolds for a few hours. When we need a Face, a raw damage per round machine, or somebody to deal with a nasty trap, everyone else gets their time fore and center. When it comes to soaking up lots of pinprick hits, that's the specialty of these two characters.
1. You're right, it lasts for ten minutes per use.
2. I didn't say it wasn't possible, I said you shouldn't. You're using a metamagic effect that was never intended to be used on spells higher than 3rd level in non-epic level play, and you're using it on spells that are balanced by their short duration, thereby rendering them unbalanced (and then you're using nightsticks, which exacerbates the brokenness hugely).
3. What I said holds, the Vigorous Circle spell targets creature other than you, and not in an emanating fashion and you cannot target other creatures with a Persistent Spell. The Persistent Spell feat allows only spells that have a range of personal or those with a fixed range “like Detect Magic,” to be made Persistent. The example given is of a spell that effects the caster but has a range of 60'. Clearly they didn't intend that phrasing to be a ban on spells with caster level dependent ranges, but on spells with ranges that aren't emanated from the caster.
Animated Objects:
1. This isn't a case of common sense vs. rules as written, the objects are utterly mindless. There is no possible justification as to why one would try to defend itself unless directed to, in "common sense" or rules. Can you really argue that a mindless animated object, like modern day robotic welding machinery, would have a desire for self preservation? Or any other desire or initiative? This also goes for mindless undead; if you animate them and don’t tell them to defend themselves, they’ll stand stupidly until death.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. To make Animate Objects permanent, the caster must be at least level 14
5. I was thinking of 6" murder holes, but I suppose a Tiny creature could still crawl through those.
Rope Trick: Yes
Traps>Fighter+Cleric
Attrition from sniping and traps>Party
If the party stops to constantly search for traps, the defensive buffs would run out on most characters and attrition become lethal.
Level 7-10 party, must include 1 battlerager vigor fighter with avenger MC, and at least one leader with teleporting ability (Eladrin Taclord perhaps).
The party runs down the corridor screaming, as per usual. Arriving at the murder holes, the avenger and the teleporting leader go Hey! Targets!
The Battlerager uses his phase+shift+possibly insubstantial level 7 Avenger power to ignore the wall, and then proceeds to eat kobolds for lunch, for a very long time. After about 4 rounds (to give the Fighter time to clear a space), the Taclord looks through a murder hole and teleports to the Fighter. The rest of the time, the Taclord simply provides support whenever the Kobolds manage to eat through the Fighters temporary hit points. Given the condition that kobolds generally hit on 20+, and do about 3 damage per hit, this Fighter can probably kill about 500 of them before they wear through his hit points. Although technically, the Taclord would probably before the Fighter killed all the kobolds, and a better set-up would have the Fighter able to yell when he is finally getting low on HP and actually needs the Taclord to show up for several seconds to heal him.
The rest of the party during this period of Battlerager munching, spends their time clearing a spot of burning debris in the main corridor where there seem to be no kobold access points. After clearing said spot, the simply sit and wait until the Battlerager (and Taclord if he actually went with the Battlerager) comes back.
As a note, any situation including many many low damage output targets is exactly what the Battlerager excels at. Needing the Phasing ability to get at his targets is the only non-obvious part of the build (although its something I like to do anyway, just for situations like this. Phasing bothers DMs to no end.) As a further note, many parties do have ways to quickly smash or open doors, so even without that, my general instinct would be to turn around and open the door and see what I missed on the other side, although the DM can fairly easily negate that option.