For instance, he is going to put us in a high magic campaign, so he thinks it's fair that every enemy use and get bonuses from magic items, however we as PCs aren't allowed to take them afterward for some reason he isn't answering at the moment. He is also going to drastically decrease the price of magic items, and therefor give us less money, thereby making everything else more exspensive. He wants us to use tactics to win battles, to which I said we already are supposed to in a "normal" adventure (on an ironic side note, he's the kind of guy who likes to not work as a team to make one of our other group members mad).
What should be done to change his mind? I don't want to just walk out on it, but I'm sure that these aren't the only aspects of balance being messed with.
WHUT?
Seriously. Man has issues. Run casters. Take item creation feats. Use the 'all magic items cost way the heck less' DM fiat to make magic items for a piddling amount of money.
At least he's telling you upfront. My DM decided to screw us over on magic items (along with many other stupid house rules) midway through the campaign once we're already invested in the game; says it makes magic "special" when really it just makes the game frustrating.
During your talk, ask your DM if he has any other house rules and ask him to write them down. You'll save yourself a lot of grief this way.
Seriously. Man has issues. Run casters. Take item creation feats. Use the 'all magic items cost way the heck less' DM fiat to make magic items for a piddling amount of money.
Doesn't work in 4e. Item creation is not done at a discount anymore.
For instance, he is going to put us in a high magic campaign, so he thinks it's fair that every enemy use and get bonuses from magic items, however we as PCs aren't allowed to take them afterward for some reason he isn't answering at the moment.
Uh, by this does he mean he's using the rules in the DMG or is he actually handing out the +s and properties? Because if it's the later don't bother playing and save yourself the wipe. Monsters do just fine without a +1 to 6 on top of their attributes.
He is also going to drastically decrease the price of magic items, and therefor give us less money, thereby making everything else more exspensive. He wants us to use tactics to win battles, to which I said we already are supposed to in a "normal" adventure (on an ironic side note, he's the kind of guy who likes to not work as a team to make one of our other group members mad).
While technically fair you should warn him in no uncertain terms that the only thing this will do is cause you to Greyhawk the whole damn dungeon and sell the rocks for coppers if you can. And if that doesn't work quit and take up a profession that earns money like farming. Poor PCs don't work in a D&D setting due to the levels of violence they can put out.
What should be done to change his mind? I don't want to just walk out on it, but I'm sure that these aren't the only aspects of balance being messed with.
Demand to know his houserules. Ask WHY he's doing those houserules. Suggest that he talk it over with the group as a whole before deciding straight up that its a good idea. And if he shows a complete lack of game balance knowledge suggest that playing RAW for a year or two might be good practice before he starts tinkering with the system.
Doesn't work in 4e. Item creation is not done at a discount anymore.
Of course, OP didn't say whether it was 4E or Third ....
Anyway - same as above. Ask for a list of house-rules so you can't be blindsided, go over them (singly, as a group, etc) and explain to him how and why the rules aren't going to work. I'd reserve walkout as a threat of last resort, but if you do play it and he doesn't cave, follow through.
As you say, by decreasing the cost of magic but giving you less money he essentially changes nothing but the cost of an inn skyrocketing. Numbers aren't so important to consider, what with possible inflation/deflation having taken place. If you just raise the "cost of living" of most people in the world and leave magic the same, it will appear cheaper than normal but you can essentially ignore that entirely and just make "cost of living" actually be ridiculously cheap, and magic items just are priced as they are because even farmers can save up for magic tools and such.
You can also mention that magic can't really be any more common if the PCs aren't allowed to buy it any easier than normal, or use it when they find it. To simulate commonness while also decking monsters out with magic, he can throw in low level items in place of treasure (Level 1 useless item = 72gp of treasure). Low level gear isn't going to be worth keeping for long.
Just the description that magic item vendors are on the corners and PCs can find pretty much whatever they are looking for on demand, and the ease in finding buyers for the magic "junk," will clearly illustrate magic being common in the world without potentially causing player grief.
You can point out that Monsters already do benefit from magic items, just not as much as PCs when it comes to enhancement bonuses.
so he thinks it's fair that every enemy use and get bonuses from magic items
Ask him if he's remembered to subtract the magic threshold when doing this. If all you get is a blank look, do not allow him to DM, because it means he hasn't got a clue what the hell he is doing and his tinkering is likely to make the game unplayable.
However you could get something higher if you found it. Which is perfectly Fine.
I Think why shouldnt other Monsters and NPCS be allowed to use magic items? They Excist dont they?
You cant get them as loot? Well Big deal. You can still get other **** as loot.
Item cost change? Big deal how eles is the damn Market going to make there money.
In all honestly I beleve your complaining a bit to much.
I Mean Sure hears a +1 Magic item it costs 1000 GP Oh Your selling me a +1 Magic Item? Hears 1000 GP.
WHERES The Profit in this?
Merchents in my mind should make some type of profit and i beleve 4E got clouse to how it should be.
It Realy depends on how much of it he is doing.
If hes giving level 1 kobolts say +4 items and such then ya to much.
If hes makeing it if a +1 magic dagger is 10,000 Gold Then way to much.
If hes makeing your +1 Magic dagger sell for 10 gold then ya ok your DM is ****ing **** over to much.
Besides that i dont think its a problem at all.
"I do not believe I or other players would enjoy those modifications to the game. Please reconsider."
As you say, by decreasing the cost of magic but giving you less money he essentially changes nothing but the cost of an inn skyrocketing. Numbers aren't so important to consider, what with possible inflation/deflation having taken place. If you just raise the "cost of living" of most people in the world and leave magic the same, it will appear cheaper than normal but you can essentially ignore that entirely and just make "cost of living" actually be ridiculously cheap, and magic items just are priced as they are because even farmers can save up for magic tools and such.
You can also mention that magic can't really be any more common if the PCs aren't allowed to buy it any easier than normal, or use it when they find it. To simulate commonness while also decking monsters out with magic, he can throw in low level items in place of treasure (Level 1 useless item = 72gp of treasure). Low level gear isn't going to be worth keeping for long.
Just the description that magic item vendors are on the corners and PCs can find pretty much whatever they are looking for on demand, and the ease in finding buyers for the magic "junk," will clearly illustrate magic being common in the world without potentially causing player grief.
You can point out that Monsters already do benefit from magic items, just not as much as PCs when it comes to enhancement bonuses.
Theres a number of things i can say why i agree with this guy so insteed of saying it all ill say this
Second.
Well. Remeber magic threshold Basicly At X Level your only allowed to get X type of magic item and not higher
Um, no.
Look at the "Monster Magic Threshold" table, DMG pg. 174. Effectively, all monsters have a "built in" enhancement bonus, so if they are wielding an item that is at their threshold or lower, do not adjust the monster's stat block. If they are using an item above their threshold, then adjust the monster's stat block by the difference. (e.g. A threshold +2 monster using a +4 item has a net +2 adjustment from his book stats.)
o.o.....Whut... is a... "magic threshold".....
The "magic threshold" is the number that accounts for the monster's bonus to attack/damage. If a monster has a threshold of +2, and it is using +1 armour and +3 weapon, then you don't change the AC, but you increase the attacks by +1atk and +1 damage.
It is also used in house-ruled games where magic items don't grant + to atk/dmg, by giving it to the PCs. It is, roughly speaking, +1/five levels.
So, we are starting off a new campaign soon, as our old one came to an end recently and we are taking turns trying our hand at it. However, our new DM was talking to me earlier about his campaign, and from the looks of it, he's seriously messing with some game balance.
For instance, he is going to put us in a high magic campaign, so he thinks it's fair that every enemy use and get bonuses from magic items, however we as PCs aren't allowed to take them afterward for some reason he isn't answering at the moment. He is also going to drastically decrease the price of magic items, and therefor give us less money, thereby making everything else more exspensive. He wants us to use tactics to win battles, to which I said we already are supposed to in a "normal" adventure (on an ironic side note, he's the kind of guy who likes to not work as a team to make one of our other group members mad).
What should be done to change his mind? I don't want to just walk out on it, but I'm sure that these aren't the only aspects of balance being messed with.
Bash him on the head with your DMG, it's the only solution.
JK
I think Kouk has it about right. Additionally, I'd like to add that making magic cheaper is not an excuse to give you less money. It IS an excuse to give you more magic items in the place of cash-money for your adventures.
2 long campeigns I've been through now with 2 seperate DMs, I've encountered about 20 trolls on numerous occasions and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them was buffed with Fire Protection one way or another.
You could take the High road and have someone else DM.
Or you could take the even higher road & just allow him his turn to DM.
Afterall, what's the worst that'll happen?
You'll play his vision for awhile, maybe find that it's not as great as he thought it'd be, & then someone else will take over.
Seriously though, you can have good games run off of weird/bad rules
(Some would say 4e is proof of this. Others spent years proving it with 3x....).
Oh, and afterwards, once his stories "done"? You'll all know wether or not to do x again.
Of course, OP didn't say whether it was 4E or Third ....
It's implied as 4e unless stated otherwise.
The previous editions board is here.
Sorry but i didnt mean to be rude at all, i write from a place of worry for you
Anyway I also was able to interrogate out of him that most combat will consist of lots and lots of minions a lot of the time, so I suppose we could get out of the accuracy issue by just going with a lot of AoE attacks and hoping at least some hit, although on the inverse, attacks that damage on a miss won't do anything to minions either.
On a side note, we have all been taking turns DMing with out group, and it's his next. Simply giving him the boot seems a little harsh considering he's been waiting for a while.
I would also like to know what reasons he feels that the changes are necessary and what he really hopes to accomplish with his changes. Some of the things you mentioned about him seems really contradictory. Letting monsters get item bonuses while PC's cannot get the items after defeating them just seems unfair and unrealistic even in a D&D game. What are they? Dark elf weapons that turn to dust when exposed to sunlight?
It is also interesting how you say he wants you guys to use tactics when he doesn't use them himself as a player. This is a major red flag. You may want to ask him about what tactics means to him and give some examples of when he used them as a player. I think he may have his own idea of what tactics are and they are likely different than your definition of them.
While the cliche is always players vs. DM, in a good game it should never be that way. The DM's responsibility to provide innovative and challenging situations for the players has to be formulated while remembering that the whole thing is supposed to be fun. Not just for the DM or one or two players, but everyone.
If none of you have actually played out a combat encounter with his new system, perhaps you could all benefit from a few practice sessions outside of the campaign arc. This would be your best method of discovering if the combat is functional and if the DM is reasonable he can see where the bugs in the system are and work them out.
As long as your characters stay in his world and don't transfer to another campaign, it shouldn't be a big deal.
If it turns out to not be fun, then maybe he'll have an obvious reason to change.
It's a group activity. The DM doesn't have to be the "boss of the world", though that's OK if the group likes it. The DM can just be the guy who runs the monsters and preps the adventures.
If he suggested running a 'primal only' campaign, and very few of you were interested, I would hope you would all discuss it and come to an agreement which satisfied most people. Same difference here, to me.
He needs to snap out of it.
Your DM is having an Il Duce attack, also known as Napoleonic Complex. He is rabid with the power of being a DM. He has the authority to make characters of the utmost power and revel in their combat awesomeness. To ensure he retains his omnipotence, the PCs must never be allowed to achieve that same power. They're only PCs, and he's the DM! He rules! He is the Law! It is his game! His ball! He's in charge! The Boss! The Big Kahuna! The Grand Poobah! The Master of the Universe! He is a god!
He needs to snap out of it.
Grand Poobah of Upper Buttcrack??
For the record, I am the Grand Poobah. Don't you ever forget it.