Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kokytos Mar 25, 2009 22:30:40	Is being knocked unconscious the same as taking a short rest? I ask because, frighteningly, I was the only one to object when my DM told a fellow player (who has been an annoyance to the entire party by robbing/ransacking towns and getting us kicked out) that when he was zapped unconscious teleporting in and robbing a blacksmith/armorer, waking to find himself bound/gagged, that he had taken a short rest and could essentially teleport out to facilitate his escape. There has been a string of these kinds of decisions that make me not want to play, and they pretty much are the result of this one PC. Whenever I try to object (outside of character) I get shot down by apathy. Any input to explain to me how being unconscious is a short rest, or how its not, would be appreciated.
#2 gregt_314 Mar 25, 2009 22:38:00	Is being knocked unconscious the same as taking a short rest? Not in 4E, for largely mechanical reasons. If it was, I can think of at least a couple of builds specifically designed to fall unconscious mid-battle for the purpose of refreshing their encounter powers. In 4E a short rest is any uninterrupted period of five or more minutes in a non-combat setting. If you're outside combat, and you fall unconscious for more than five minutes, and your DM declares it a short rest, I don't see anything wrong with that. But it's not because you're unconscious, it's because of the lapse of time. I'm more worried by players being "zapped unconscious" - that seems pretty lame. And if it's a 4E game, most low-level teleportation powers are very short range and require line of sight, so I'm not quite sure what power he's using to do this teleporting. See also my thread in the DM forum on player/character separation for DMs, on why DMs should deal with troublesome players as troublesome players, not troublesome characters.
#3 onceuponatime Mar 25, 2009 22:43:38	In this exact situation has he been unconscious for 5+ minutes? If so I can see the DM making a call...if not you have a point and should start going unconscious in mid battle and when you are brought back up start using you expanded encounter powers.
#4 kokytos Mar 25, 2009 22:50:24	Yes, he was unconscious for longer than 5+ minutes. And yes this is 4e. Don't worry about the teleportation and how he used it. He teleported correctly. What bothered me was how he was able to use it again as an encounter power despite being knocked unconscious (furthering his pointless shenanigans which are a separate but infuriating issue altogether). The way I interpret short rest is being awake and conscious, but relatively relaxed. Extended resting people are considered unconscious (barring special racial rules). Fellow PCs took it to mean that unconscious people aren't taking extended rests (like a rectangle isn't a square). Which is why it frustrated me as to why it would count as a short rest.
#5 onceuponatime Mar 25, 2009 23:00:27	yeah your DM made a call as far as I am concerned due to the fact the PC was out of it for 5+minutes...by RAW he made a right call, maybe not RAI but it only states that you can do no strenuous activity..an unconscious PC can do nothing strenuous...
#6 gregt_314 Mar 25, 2009 23:00:30	Yes, he was unconscious for longer than 5+ minutes. And yes this is 4e. Fellow PCs took it to mean that unconscious people aren't taking extended rests (like a rectangle isn't a square). Which is why it frustrated me as to why it would count as a short rest. Short rests in 4E are a clumsy mechanical way of saying "between every encounter, you get your encounter powers back and you can heal". (Hence "encounter powers".) The only reason they don't just say that outright is to answer the question of when two back-to-back encounters are really just a single extended encounter - answer: when there's not a five minute separation. So it doesn't really matter whether you're unconscious, frozen in carbonite, or for that matter dead. Five minutes should, mechanically, get you your powers back, provided you're not in combat. Really the problem seems to be the larger issue of how your DM is dealing with this player, rather than the specific ruling he made in this situation.
#7 kokytos Mar 25, 2009 23:10:03	OK, thanks for clarifying that up. Seems like the only thing that would differ with that explanation are opinions surrounding whether being knocked unconscious and waking up are immediate back-to-back encounters or not. Which doesn't need to be endlessly debated here. Thanks again!
#8 robv Mar 26, 2009 12:59:00	If it were my judgment, I wouldn't decree a person has rested if they have been unconscious through some source of adversity. I'd interpret resting as being a voluntary state. The purpose of the resting is to refresh ones self from some sort of activity. I've known people and I, too, have been knocked out before. When I came to, I didn't feel rested. I felt tired and in need of some rest. There is the "out of combat" aspect as well. If being unconscious constituted resting, then I'd have one of my ally monks to knock me out so I could become rested. I think that loosely interpreting this could seriously break encounters.
#9 onceuponatime Mar 27, 2009 23:20:56	it is not like you can use up your encounter powers, get knocked out, healed up the next round and then have all your encounter powers back. you still need the 5+ minutes... I have slept fitfully for 8 hours nad felt as tired as I was when I went to bed. Remember it is not based fully on reality, there are little things that may look off but with the design of the edition to not over complicate things, it is an easy rule on how rests work. 5+ minutes of no strenuous activity? Coo' you have had a short rest. Short and sweet.