Acid Breath - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Acid Breath

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
runatyr
Aug 05, 2008 8:49:41 I'm DM-ing a new 4E campaign and I have all of one game under my belt with the new system. One of my players has a dragonborn character with acid breath, and he wants to know if he can use it to dissolve things like wood, with the idea in mind that he could breathe on a wooden floor and drop into the corridor below, corrode items vulnerable to acid, and so forth.

I told him I did not want to inhibit his creativity, but that sounded potentially imbalancing -- and that I'd ask on the forums here for some advice from DMs more familiar with the system. Is there a rule about such things in place? If not, how much damage would you say the breath weapon can do out of combat, if any?

And if the rules don't allow it and it's potentially imbalancing, what are ways to make some sense of it in-game? Seems like he ought to be able to use the breath out of combat if he wants... though it is an encounter power, and I don't know what the limits would be.

Eh. I'm torn, as the player has interesting ideas and I don't want to shut the door in his face on this, but I'm not sure it's a great idea. A rule would help, but barring that some advice would be great.
#2
AaronOfBarbaria
Aug 05, 2008 8:55:48 you can find how to figure out an object (such as a section of floor) Hit Points and defenses on page 65 of the DMG.

Yes, he can attack the floor with his breath to try and melt it... but it probably won't go all the way through since 1 square (medium) objects start with a base of 20 HP, and if they are reinforced (such as floor would be) then the HP are multiplied by 1.5.. so... if he can pump 30 damage out of his breath weapon in one go... then let him.
#3
runatyr
Aug 05, 2008 9:10:59 Thanks Aaron, I appreciate it.

We mentioned HP for objects briefly as we'd used them in old campaigns, but I missed it in the DMG on the first go. That sounds workable and should give enough framework to let him give it a go without watching the game turn into one pool of acid after another until he melts the world.

Speaking of which, would there be a daily limit? It's a minor encounter action if I remember correctly... but if each out-of-combat instance is an "encounter" he can use it in, could he do it all day?

Still plodding about as I wrap my brain around the new system, apologies for any dense questions.
#4
AaronOfBarbaria
Aug 05, 2008 9:15:17 The limit on how often it can be done is really simple:

Encounter powers have to be recharged by taking a short rest.

So he would have to relax and take a break so to speak in order to get the power back... think of it as letting his "acid glands" generate enough to use.
#5
kaldair
Aug 05, 2008 9:23:36
Encounter powers have to be recharged by taking a short rest.

There's actually a lot of powers that can be used outside of combat, and this is the only way of determining an actual "encounter." An "encounter" starts immediately after a short rest and ends at the next short rest.
#6
nightwalker450
Aug 05, 2008 10:03:08 I use 5 minute periods. Because sometimes people don't have time to even get a short rest. :D
#7
Cohen95
Aug 05, 2008 10:18:50 A few points.

#8
Neutronium_Dragon
Aug 05, 2008 17:39:41 If the party really wants to bust through the floor then they can do it just as well with their normal weapons. You don't need acid damage for that.
#9
runatyr
Aug 05, 2008 18:43:20 Thanks all,

Looks like a short rest will do it. Seems like a lot of acid can be produced in a short time that way.

I suppose I should be on the DM thread, but I am sure plenty of DMs are in here, too. Apologies for the thread placement.

How would you adjudicate using the acid later, like storing it in vials and giving it to the party's rogue? Or using it to destroy an old multi-story wood house just by waiting around for a few rests and continuing to blast it with acid?

I have plenty of experience DM'ing, but next to none with 4E, so it's important for me to see ideas about ways to integrate the system with the role-play while walking that line between keeping a balance and letting the players do what they wish to.
#10
AaronOfBarbaria
Aug 05, 2008 18:54:23 Unfortunately, the dragonborn's acid breath appears to either be A) too gaseous to contain in anything other than a dragonborn... or B) a super-corosive that would damage even glass.

That is, unless you house rule glass or crystal having a resistance to acid... as the rules are written nothing is naturally resistant or vulnerable to any type of damage unless it is a creature of some sort.
#11
kouk
Aug 05, 2008 19:16:14 In an earlier thread on this same topic (dragonborn acid breath) several posters concluded that the breath would either evaporate quickly, was actually a gaseous form and very spread out, or lose its potency after exposure to air, because there is no ongoing damage.

That would mean you couldn't really store it, unless perhaps you found whatever was producing the acid and stuck tubes and needles in there to harvest it.

You could also just say it is magical and won't keep.
#12
frostythepyro
Aug 05, 2008 23:00:21
Unfortunately, the dragonborn's acid breath appears to either be A) too gaseous to contain in anything other than a dragonborn... or B) a super-corosive that would damage even glass.

That is, unless you house rule glass or crystal having a resistance to acid... as the rules are written nothing is naturally resistant or vulnerable to any type of damage unless it is a creature of some sort.

Actualy the DMG (pg 66) stats that you can add vurnrabilites that make sense (it used an example of a curtain, or pile of papers have vulnerability 5 to fire). If you the DM thinks acid would work particularly well against something, feal free to add a vulnerability.

And this is just me(aka no RAW support), but against things like walls/floors I would say area attacks are more effective, it just makes sense that bathing a whole wall in fire would be more effective than just bathing a small area in fire (asuming equal intensity of fire).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 runatyr Aug 05, 2008 8:49:41	I'm DM-ing a new 4E campaign and I have all of one game under my belt with the new system. One of my players has a dragonborn character with acid breath, and he wants to know if he can use it to dissolve things like wood, with the idea in mind that he could breathe on a wooden floor and drop into the corridor below, corrode items vulnerable to acid, and so forth. I told him I did not want to inhibit his creativity, but that sounded potentially imbalancing -- and that I'd ask on the forums here for some advice from DMs more familiar with the system. Is there a rule about such things in place? If not, how much damage would you say the breath weapon can do out of combat, if any? And if the rules don't allow it and it's potentially imbalancing, what are ways to make some sense of it in-game? Seems like he ought to be able to use the breath out of combat if he wants... though it is an encounter power, and I don't know what the limits would be. Eh. I'm torn, as the player has interesting ideas and I don't want to shut the door in his face on this, but I'm not sure it's a great idea. A rule would help, but barring that some advice would be great.
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 05, 2008 8:55:48	you can find how to figure out an object (such as a section of floor) Hit Points and defenses on page 65 of the DMG. Yes, he can attack the floor with his breath to try and melt it... but it probably won't go all the way through since 1 square (medium) objects start with a base of 20 HP, and if they are reinforced (such as floor would be) then the HP are multiplied by 1.5.. so... if he can pump 30 damage out of his breath weapon in one go... then let him.
#3 runatyr Aug 05, 2008 9:10:59	Thanks Aaron, I appreciate it. We mentioned HP for objects briefly as we'd used them in old campaigns, but I missed it in the DMG on the first go. That sounds workable and should give enough framework to let him give it a go without watching the game turn into one pool of acid after another until he melts the world. Speaking of which, would there be a daily limit? It's a minor encounter action if I remember correctly... but if each out-of-combat instance is an "encounter" he can use it in, could he do it all day? Still plodding about as I wrap my brain around the new system, apologies for any dense questions.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 05, 2008 9:15:17	The limit on how often it can be done is really simple: Encounter powers have to be recharged by taking a short rest. So he would have to relax and take a break so to speak in order to get the power back... think of it as letting his "acid glands" generate enough to use.
#5 kaldair Aug 05, 2008 9:23:36	Encounter powers have to be recharged by taking a short rest. There's actually a lot of powers that can be used outside of combat, and this is the only way of determining an actual "encounter." An "encounter" starts immediately after a short rest and ends at the next short rest.
#6 nightwalker450 Aug 05, 2008 10:03:08	I use 5 minute periods. Because sometimes people don't have time to even get a short rest. :D
#7 Cohen95 Aug 05, 2008 10:18:50	A few points.
#8 Neutronium_Dragon Aug 05, 2008 17:39:41	If the party really wants to bust through the floor then they can do it just as well with their normal weapons. You don't need acid damage for that.
#9 runatyr Aug 05, 2008 18:43:20	Thanks all, Looks like a short rest will do it. Seems like a lot of acid can be produced in a short time that way. I suppose I should be on the DM thread, but I am sure plenty of DMs are in here, too. Apologies for the thread placement. How would you adjudicate using the acid later, like storing it in vials and giving it to the party's rogue? Or using it to destroy an old multi-story wood house just by waiting around for a few rests and continuing to blast it with acid? I have plenty of experience DM'ing, but next to none with 4E, so it's important for me to see ideas about ways to integrate the system with the role-play while walking that line between keeping a balance and letting the players do what they wish to.
#10 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 05, 2008 18:54:23	Unfortunately, the dragonborn's acid breath appears to either be A) too gaseous to contain in anything other than a dragonborn... or B) a super-corosive that would damage even glass. That is, unless you house rule glass or crystal having a resistance to acid... as the rules are written nothing is naturally resistant or vulnerable to any type of damage unless it is a creature of some sort.
#11 kouk Aug 05, 2008 19:16:14	In an earlier thread on this same topic (dragonborn acid breath) several posters concluded that the breath would either evaporate quickly, was actually a gaseous form and very spread out, or lose its potency after exposure to air, because there is no ongoing damage. That would mean you couldn't really store it, unless perhaps you found whatever was producing the acid and stuck tubes and needles in there to harvest it. You could also just say it is magical and won't keep.
#12 frostythepyro Aug 05, 2008 23:00:21	Unfortunately, the dragonborn's acid breath appears to either be A) too gaseous to contain in anything other than a dragonborn... or B) a super-corosive that would damage even glass. That is, unless you house rule glass or crystal having a resistance to acid... as the rules are written nothing is naturally resistant or vulnerable to any type of damage unless it is a creature of some sort. Actualy the DMG (pg 66) stats that you can add vurnrabilites that make sense (it used an example of a curtain, or pile of papers have vulnerability 5 to fire). If you the DM thinks acid would work particularly well against something, feal free to add a vulnerability. And this is just me(aka no RAW support), but against things like walls/floors I would say area attacks are more effective, it just makes sense that bathing a whole wall in fire would be more effective than just bathing a small area in fire (asuming equal intensity of fire).