Adapting an idea, but needing a class that doesn't exist. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Adapting an idea, but needing a class that doesn't exist.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Rpetiger
Apr 21, 2012 11:04:52 I want to combine Hexblade, and Bladesinger. I know, there are no hybrid entries for these, so I am trying to figure out what works.

Bladesinger: I keep Blade magic/bladespells, but lose spellbook, the defence bonus, and bladesong is a daily power.

Hybrid talent options: Guarded Flourish, Instinctive attack.

Hexblade: Pact. You gain a pact, and the weapon that goes with it, but lose the pact boon, reward, and use encounter that goes with it as a daily.

Hybrid talent options: Armor prof, Pact reward, complete pact.

Thoughts?
#2
svendj
Apr 21, 2012 11:57:51 Here's a reason why I wouldn't allow it as a DM:

Dex/Cha race, Fey Pact, Hybrid Talent for Fey Pact reward. This results in a character that spams hyper-accurate Moonfire Blade (weapon vs Reflex) MBA for 1d12+Cha+Dex(+2/4/6) radiant damage -> Lightning Ring for Dex(+2/4) lightning damage. And because of how Moonfire Blade and Lightning Ring interact, the enemy will take another dose of radiant or lightning damage equal to your Dex mod.
Besides that, you have decent AC (Ranger AC), good Reflex and good Will.

You have no other powers to speak of besides 2 daily powers, one of which sucks and the other is insanely strong, so you will be doing one thing and one thing only during your career: spamming your MBA. Since you can ALSO use the set-up on a charge, thus use Horned Helm and the like, this idea is too overpowered to see the light of play.

My advice would be to just reflavor a Hexblade into whatever you want it to be and go with that. Less boring and less risk of your DM and fellow players getting tired of your character really soon.
#3
Rpetiger
Apr 21, 2012 13:00:27 I can always kill the attached at will on the pact weapon. I am just looking for a way to combine bladespells with the pact weapon.
#4
svendj
Apr 21, 2012 13:23:21 You need Guarded Flourish, otherwise you'll provoke an OA with every Bladespell you cast. Apart from that, you could try to convince your DM to just let your character fight with a pact weapon instead of a normal sword.

I mean, we don't know why you're doing this. Is it because you want to powergame? Because of flavor reasons? Once we know that, we might be able to help you build the character you want.

I do have some more general advice on hybrids though. Striker hybrids only have their striker feature apply to class powers (Executioners are an exception to this because their 1d8 also applies to MBAs). So the damage boost from Pact Reward shouldn't be a hybrid talent, but only apply to Warlock attacks.
Now here's where you run into the aforementioned problem: Bladespells, while not technically a striker feature because Bladesingers aren't strikers (at least according to WotC), don't have the option of only applying to Bladesinger attacks since they are added to every MBA. And since the Hexblade's at-will attacks also count as MBAs, the hybrid becomes much more powerful than either of its parent classes.

The only way I see to fix this is to get rid of both Pact Reward and the Hexblade at-wills, so your striker features don't stack. But this just leaves you with an underpowered Bladesinger, something you really don't want.
That's why I suggested playing a Bladesinger with a Pact Weapon instead of a normal weapon, maybe even by spending a feat. Sure, they're a little better than your average military one-handed weapon, but come on, you´re playing a Bladesinger. You won´t be out-striking the Ranger anytime soon.
#5
Rpetiger
Apr 21, 2012 13:57:08 Adding the pact weapon is mostly for flavor. My real try here is I am trying to combine Warlock with Bladesinger, and also get a martial class mixed in. You can't MC or Hybrid a bladesinger however. I am trying to just use a rapier, and make a melee mage that can do 2 things. Teleport at will, and attack both AC and Reflex in Melee, while keeping the occasional ranged spell.
#6
Rpetiger
Apr 21, 2012 15:04:30 I am aware, that there are two paragon paths that allow you to gain teleport at will, at level 16. However, I wanted to go for etherial sidestep and grab planeshifter, to become a real master at teleport. I would be a dimentional anchor, as well as being able to zip around the battlefield as I please.

The martial class is simply so I can qualify for the Deft blade feat, letting my sword strikes target either AC or Reflex. Combine that with a rapier. In terms of the Warlock pact blades, only the blade of winter can be used to this end.
#7
Rpetiger
Apr 21, 2012 23:19:22 A second problem is that Hexblades are far too limited in power selections

#8
svendj
Apr 22, 2012 6:17:02 So you want a character that can:

- Teleport at-will
- Target AC or Reflex
- Cast Bladespells

I don't know how that's done within the rules, but since your DM apparently gives you enough leeway to make your own houseruled hybrids, why not just ask him to waive the martial requirement on Deft Blade?
#9
Rpetiger
Apr 22, 2012 8:59:27 It actually can be done, but requires you to be a bladesinger MC martial Half elf with PMC versitile master.

I was simply trying to avoid having to choose the PMC
#10
Kontaro
Apr 22, 2012 10:36:33 If you want something similar to a pact weapon, there is a theme that gives lets you chose a weapon, that you can then summon...as it has no powerfull at will attached to it, and you can choose what weapon it is at time of getting it., if you want warlock stuff, you can always MC into it.
#11
mellored
Apr 23, 2012 10:41:15 Traveler's Harlequin also can work.
#12
DoctorBadWolf
Apr 23, 2012 10:51:22
I am aware, that there are two paragon paths that allow you to gain teleport at will, at level 16. However, I wanted to go for etherial sidestep and grab planeshifter, to become a real master at teleport. I would be a dimentional anchor, as well as being able to zip around the battlefield as I please.

The martial class is simply so I can qualify for the Deft blade feat, letting my sword strikes target either AC or Reflex. Combine that with a rapier. In terms of the Warlock pact blades, only the blade of winter can be used to this end.

Your character sounds more like a warlock assassin combo of some sort than anything else, to me.
#13
Rpetiger
Apr 23, 2012 19:51:45 If assassin counted as martial, and not shadow, I would probably use that.
#14
Reg06
Apr 24, 2012 0:00:29 Why does martial matter again? Power source is just flavor text.
#15
DoctorBadWolf
Apr 24, 2012 1:18:28
If assassin counted as martial, and not shadow, I would probably use that.

Executioner|Warlock

Executioners are martial. And, for bonus points, you can double tap the striker dice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Rpetiger Apr 21, 2012 11:04:52	I want to combine Hexblade, and Bladesinger. I know, there are no hybrid entries for these, so I am trying to figure out what works. Bladesinger: I keep Blade magic/bladespells, but lose spellbook, the defence bonus, and bladesong is a daily power. Hybrid talent options: Guarded Flourish, Instinctive attack. Hexblade: Pact. You gain a pact, and the weapon that goes with it, but lose the pact boon, reward, and use encounter that goes with it as a daily. Hybrid talent options: Armor prof, Pact reward, complete pact. Thoughts?
#2 svendj Apr 21, 2012 11:57:51	Here's a reason why I wouldn't allow it as a DM: Dex/Cha race, Fey Pact, Hybrid Talent for Fey Pact reward. This results in a character that spams hyper-accurate Moonfire Blade (weapon vs Reflex) MBA for 1d12+Cha+Dex(+2/4/6) radiant damage -> Lightning Ring for Dex(+2/4) lightning damage. And because of how Moonfire Blade and Lightning Ring interact, the enemy will take another dose of radiant or lightning damage equal to your Dex mod. Besides that, you have decent AC (Ranger AC), good Reflex and good Will. You have no other powers to speak of besides 2 daily powers, one of which sucks and the other is insanely strong, so you will be doing one thing and one thing only during your career: spamming your MBA. Since you can ALSO use the set-up on a charge, thus use Horned Helm and the like, this idea is too overpowered to see the light of play. My advice would be to just reflavor a Hexblade into whatever you want it to be and go with that. Less boring and less risk of your DM and fellow players getting tired of your character really soon.
#3 Rpetiger Apr 21, 2012 13:00:27	I can always kill the attached at will on the pact weapon. I am just looking for a way to combine bladespells with the pact weapon.
#4 svendj Apr 21, 2012 13:23:21	You need Guarded Flourish, otherwise you'll provoke an OA with every Bladespell you cast. Apart from that, you could try to convince your DM to just let your character fight with a pact weapon instead of a normal sword. I mean, we don't know why you're doing this. Is it because you want to powergame? Because of flavor reasons? Once we know that, we might be able to help you build the character you want. I do have some more general advice on hybrids though. Striker hybrids only have their striker feature apply to class powers (Executioners are an exception to this because their 1d8 also applies to MBAs). So the damage boost from Pact Reward shouldn't be a hybrid talent, but only apply to Warlock attacks. Now here's where you run into the aforementioned problem: Bladespells, while not technically a striker feature because Bladesingers aren't strikers (at least according to WotC), don't have the option of only applying to Bladesinger attacks since they are added to every MBA. And since the Hexblade's at-will attacks also count as MBAs, the hybrid becomes much more powerful than either of its parent classes. The only way I see to fix this is to get rid of both Pact Reward and the Hexblade at-wills, so your striker features don't stack. But this just leaves you with an underpowered Bladesinger, something you really don't want. That's why I suggested playing a Bladesinger with a Pact Weapon instead of a normal weapon, maybe even by spending a feat. Sure, they're a little better than your average military one-handed weapon, but come on, you´re playing a Bladesinger. You won´t be out-striking the Ranger anytime soon.
#5 Rpetiger Apr 21, 2012 13:57:08	Adding the pact weapon is mostly for flavor. My real try here is I am trying to combine Warlock with Bladesinger, and also get a martial class mixed in. You can't MC or Hybrid a bladesinger however. I am trying to just use a rapier, and make a melee mage that can do 2 things. Teleport at will, and attack both AC and Reflex in Melee, while keeping the occasional ranged spell.
#6 Rpetiger Apr 21, 2012 15:04:30	I am aware, that there are two paragon paths that allow you to gain teleport at will, at level 16. However, I wanted to go for etherial sidestep and grab planeshifter, to become a real master at teleport. I would be a dimentional anchor, as well as being able to zip around the battlefield as I please. The martial class is simply so I can qualify for the Deft blade feat, letting my sword strikes target either AC or Reflex. Combine that with a rapier. In terms of the Warlock pact blades, only the blade of winter can be used to this end.
#7 Rpetiger Apr 21, 2012 23:19:22	A second problem is that Hexblades are far too limited in power selections
#8 svendj Apr 22, 2012 6:17:02	So you want a character that can: - Teleport at-will - Target AC or Reflex - Cast Bladespells I don't know how that's done within the rules, but since your DM apparently gives you enough leeway to make your own houseruled hybrids, why not just ask him to waive the martial requirement on Deft Blade?
#9 Rpetiger Apr 22, 2012 8:59:27	It actually can be done, but requires you to be a bladesinger MC martial Half elf with PMC versitile master. I was simply trying to avoid having to choose the PMC
#10 Kontaro Apr 22, 2012 10:36:33	If you want something similar to a pact weapon, there is a theme that gives lets you chose a weapon, that you can then summon...as it has no powerfull at will attached to it, and you can choose what weapon it is at time of getting it., if you want warlock stuff, you can always MC into it.
#11 mellored Apr 23, 2012 10:41:15	Traveler's Harlequin also can work.
#12 DoctorBadWolf Apr 23, 2012 10:51:22	I am aware, that there are two paragon paths that allow you to gain teleport at will, at level 16. However, I wanted to go for etherial sidestep and grab planeshifter, to become a real master at teleport. I would be a dimentional anchor, as well as being able to zip around the battlefield as I please. The martial class is simply so I can qualify for the Deft blade feat, letting my sword strikes target either AC or Reflex. Combine that with a rapier. In terms of the Warlock pact blades, only the blade of winter can be used to this end. Your character sounds more like a warlock assassin combo of some sort than anything else, to me.
#13 Rpetiger Apr 23, 2012 19:51:45	If assassin counted as martial, and not shadow, I would probably use that.
#14 Reg06 Apr 24, 2012 0:00:29	Why does martial matter again? Power source is just flavor text.
#15 DoctorBadWolf Apr 24, 2012 1:18:28	If assassin counted as martial, and not shadow, I would probably use that. Executioner\|Warlock Executioners are martial. And, for bonus points, you can double tap the striker dice.